The Intersection of Theoogy and Science

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I would still like to see the Mohammedan defend his assertion that Jesus Christ was Mohammed. From Scripture, which is where Jesus Christ is revealed, not the Koran, which lies about Who Jesus Christ is and what He did. From Scripture, which is what the Mohammedan says he bases his beliefs on. The Mohammedan has accused others of basing their beliefs on things besides Scripture, their imagination even. So, the challenge remains. Prove from Scripture that a sinful man who raped, pillaged, committed adultery, and was a pedophile, is the same person as Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God.
 
Re: Wake up...

Funny?

Is Bowman a Muslim? No--didn't think so.

B1, Had I simply left that fake quote with no explanation and said that it was yours, then I would understand your issue with me--I would understand you calling me a liar and a deceiver. But I'm not claiming that you said Santa Claus is real--that was never my intention. So what is my offense?

I would like to add an observation here.

I think the vast majority of members here assume that when words are in a quote box, they are the exact words posted.

Hence, putting words in a quote box *is* saying they are that person's.

Sounds like you meant it only as a demonstration. I think nearly everyone on CC would say that changing words in a quote box is wrong. If you believe that's happened in other places, I'm very interested in threads/post numbers.
 
Re: Wake up...

Really? So your promoting falsehoods is nothing in your eyes? Good to know.

I would still like to see the Mohammedan defend his assertion that Jesus Christ was Mohammed. From Scripture, which is where Jesus Christ is revealed, not the Koran, which lies about Who Jesus Christ is and what He did. From Scripture, which is what the Mohammedan says he bases his beliefs on.

I'm not promoting falsehoods.

You know this.
 
Re: Wake up...

I'm not promoting falsehoods.
You know this.
I know you have falsely accused me, and misrepresented more than one other, and you are now also misrepresenting yourself if you have not already, which I would say you have. That is what I know. That is what I have asked you to stop doing. You also know your count was wrong, and refuse to apologize. So. Stop with your pretenses of innocence, they are not appreciated, and stop with your false accusations, and stop pretending you will stop doing those reprehensible things only when I stop responding to you.
 
Re: Wake up...

I know you have falsely accused me, and misrepresented more than one other, and you are now also misrepresenting yourself if you have not already, which I would say you have. That is what I know. That is what I have asked you to stop doing. You also know your count was wrong, and refuse to apologize. So. Stop with your pretenses of innocence, they are not appreciated, and stop with your false accusations, and stop pretending you will stop doing those reprehensible things only when I stop responding to you.

Likewise Magenta, likewise.
 
Re: Wake up...

Likewise Magenta, likewise.
I have not misrepresented you but you are now misrepresenting yourself and me again. You are a promoter of falsehoods, and refuse to admit your error. Such dishonesty I would not have expected from you but oh well, you learn something new every day.

I would still like to see the Mohammedan defend his assertion that Jesus Christ was Mohammed. From Scripture, which is where Jesus Christ is revealed, not the Koran, which lies about Who Jesus Christ is and what He did. From Scripture, which is what the Mohammedan says he bases his beliefs on. The Mohammedan has accused others of basing their beliefs on things besides Scripture, their imagination even. So, the challenge remains. Prove from Scripture that a sinful man who raped, pillaged, committed adultery, and was a pedophile, is the same person as Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God.


 
This is addressed to Bowman.

I feel like you are trying to make connections that aren't there. Please provide the Koranic address of all of the Koranic scriptures that state explicitly that "Mohammad is Jesus Christ". Since most here don't have a copy of the Koran, it would help if you would provide the actual text also. I can not find any.
 
Re: Wake up...

I have not misrepresented you but you are now misrepresenting yourself and me again. You are a promoter of falsehoods, and refuse to admit your error. Such dishonesty I would not have expected from you but oh well, you learn something new every day.

I would still like to see the Mohammedan defend his assertion that Jesus Christ was Mohammed. From Scripture, which is where Jesus Christ is revealed, not the Koran, which lies about Who Jesus Christ is and what He did. From Scripture, which is what the Mohammedan says he bases his beliefs on. The Mohammedan has accused others of basing their beliefs on things besides Scripture, their imagination even. So, the challenge remains. Prove from Scripture that a sinful man who raped, pillaged, committed adultery, and was a pedophile, is the same person as Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God.



You call me a liar when I have not lied.
 
Re: Wake up...

You call me a liar when I have not lied.
You did lie, you said I had one-upped the Mohammedan when I had not. Nor were you honest about the Mohammedan doing the least name calling. It seems you think saying "it seems to me" absolves you of what you say after that, as in, it seems I say everything I don't agree with is a lie. That is an outright lie. (Irony!) You also equated showing a screen shot of a post, with completely changing the text in somebody's post, when they are not comparable at all. Altering someone's text to say something completely other than what was said, on a totally different subject not under discussion, is not a misquote. It is an outright deception. Your tactics have been anything but honorable. You minimize and excuse another's bad behavior and try to shame others for what you see as bad behavior while refusing to acknowledge your own when it is pointed out, crying foul, claiming innocence, disgusting, well, disgusted is a word you used, I would not go so far to describe your behaviour as disgusting, reprehensible and dishonest will do, throw in some willful blindness....

Yeah, you are going on ignore for a while. I want to see the Mohammedan defend his position, as opposed to being drawn in to defend myself against your continued lies and misrepresentations.

I would still like to see the Mohammedan defend his assertion that Jesus Christ was Mohammed. From Scripture, which is where Jesus Christ is revealed, not the Koran, which lies about Who Jesus Christ is and what He did. From Scripture, which is what the Mohammedan says he bases his beliefs on. The Mohammedan has accused others of basing their beliefs on things besides Scripture, their imagination even. So, the challenge remains. Prove from Scripture that a sinful man who raped, pillaged, committed adultery, and was a pedophile, is the same person as Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God.
 
And I am sorry Justin. See how the Satanist disappeared into the woodwork?
Maybe you do not think one who says Jesus Christ was Mohammed a Satanist.
He is laughing up his sleeve.
 
Re: Wake up...

You did lie, you said I had one-upped the Mohammedan when I had not. Nor were you honest about the Mohammedan doing the least name calling. It seems you think saying "it seems to me" absolves you of what you say after that, as in, it seems I say everything I don't agree with is a lie. That is an outright lie. (Irony!) You also equated showing a screen shot of a post, with completely changing the text in somebody's post, when they are not comparable at all. Altering someone's text to say something completely other than what was said, on a totally different subject not under discussion, is not a misquote. It is an outright deception. Your tactics have been anything but honorable. You minimize and excuse another's bad behavior and try to shame others for what you see as bad behavior while refusing to acknowledge your own when it is pointed out, crying foul, claiming innocence, disgusting, well, disgusted is a word you used, I would not go so far to describe your behaviour as disgusting, reprehensible and dishonest will do, throw in some willful blindness....

Yeah, you are going on ignore for a while. I want to see the Mohammedan defend his position, as opposed to being drawn in to defend myself against your continued lies and misrepresentations.

I would still like to see the Mohammedan defend his assertion that Jesus Christ was Mohammed. From Scripture, which is where Jesus Christ is revealed, not the Koran, which lies about Who Jesus Christ is and what He did. From Scripture, which is what the Mohammedan says he bases his beliefs on. The Mohammedan has accused others of basing their beliefs on things besides Scripture, their imagination even. So, the challenge remains. Prove from Scripture that a sinful man who raped, pillaged, committed adultery, and was a pedophile, is the same person as Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God.

You're misunderstanding of my post does not make me a liar anymore than your misunderstanding of his post makes him a Muslim.
 
Chuckt, I know you and Bowman are best buddies or something and that you think highly of him, but I don't give a rat's ass. I really don't. I've said it before. He could be the King of freaking England in terms of theological know-how, but if he has no love for his fellow Christians, he's a clanging bell. To me, he seems as see-through as the Emperor's New Clothes.

Tintin,

Do you feel that comfortable with me that you can use profanity?

Chuck
 
"And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain". S. 4:157 Pickthall




The correct rendering of this ayah is as thus…



وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول​

الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن​

الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم​

إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا​


Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

4.157 And their saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son,“allah's”messenger”,and that they killed him,and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.




What's wrong with using internet resources, Muhammadan?

Copying verbatim from the internet, as you routinely do, is NOT research.

Real research can be defended....and I already tested your knowledge of your 'copy-paste-research'....and you fell completely flat...and now you have this gigantic vendetta chip on your shoulder, as you chase me from thread to thread...

 
4.157 And their saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son,“allah's”messenger”,and that they killed him,and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.

Where is "allah's messenger" in the Bible? You want to claim the Koranic Muhammad is Jesus, so prove that with the Bible! This is a BDF, quote Biblical Scripture to prove your points!
 
Defining the term 'Muhammad'...

This is addressed to Bowman.

I feel like you are trying to make connections that aren't there. Please provide the Koranic address of all of the Koranic scriptures that state explicitly that "Mohammad is Jesus Christ". Since most here don't have a copy of the Koran, it would help if you would provide the actual text also. I can not find any.


The premise is to define the term in question.

Let’s begin our exegesis by examining the classic Arabic definition for 'Muhammad'; how frequently the term (by itself) is used; and how its root and all derivatives are utilized in the Koran.



محمد= “muhammad”

“muhammad” definition:

Passive participle. A man praised much, or repeatedly, or time after time; endowed with many praiseworthy qualities. Praised one.

It comes from the root 'hamida' (ha-miim-dal), which means he praised, eulogized, or commended him; spoke well of him; mentioned him with approbation; sometimes because of favor received.Also implies admiration; and it implies the magnifying, or honoring, of the object thereof; and lowliness, humility, or submissiveness, in the person who offers it. He declared the praises of God or he praised God much with good forms of praise.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume two, pp. 638 – 640
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 135 - 136
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 38
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 56


Occurrences of 'muhammad' in the Koran: 4
Locations: 3.144, 33.40, 47.2, 48.29

Occurrences of the root 'hamida' and its sixteen derivatives in the Koran: 68
Locations: 1.2, 2.30,2.267, 3.144, 3.188,4.131,6.1, 6.45,7.43, 9.112,10.10, 11.73,13.13,14.1,14.8,14.39, 15.98,16.75, 17.44,17.52,17.79,17.111, 18.1, 20.130,22.24, 22.64,23.28, 25.58,27.15, 27.59, 27.93, 28.70,29.63, 30.18,31.12, 31.25, 31.26, 32.15,33.40, 34.1(2x),34.6,35.1, 35.15,35.34, 37.182, 39.29, 39.74, 39.75(2x), 40.7, 40.55,40.65, 41.42, 42.5, 42.28, 45.36,47.2, 48.29, 50.39,52.48,57.24, 60.6,61.6, 64.1,64.6, 85.8, 110.3

Observe the Koranic usages…


  • 1.2…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 2.30…praise to the lord
  • 2.267…“allah” is praiseworthy
  • 3.144…a MAN praised much – praised one
  • 3.188…they are praised – painful torture
  • 4.131…praise to “allah”
  • 6.1…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 6.45…and the praise belonging to “allah”, lord
  • 7.43…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 9.112…the praise to “allah”
  • 10.10…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 11.73…“allah” is praiseworthy
  • 13.13…on account of the praise, “allah”
  • 14.1…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 14.8…“allah” is praiseworthy
  • 14.39…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 15.98…lord’s praise
  • 16.75…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 17.44…on account of his praise, “allah”, lord
  • 17.52…on account of his praise, lord
  • 17.79…lord praised
  • 17.111…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 18.1…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 20.130…lord’s praise
  • 22.24…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 22.64…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 23.28…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 25.58…on account of lords praise
  • 27.15…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 27.59…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 27.93…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 28.70…the praise to “allah”
  • 29.63…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 30.18…the praise, “allah”
  • 31.12…“allah” is praiseworthy
  • 31.25…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 31.26…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 32.15…lord’s praise
  • 33.40…a MAN praised much – praised one
  • 34.1…the praise belonging to “allah”(2x)
  • 34.6…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 35.1…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 35.15…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 35.34…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 37.182…and the praise belonging to “allah”, lord
  • 39.29…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 39.74…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 39.75…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 39.75…lord’s praise
  • 40.7…lord’s praise
  • 40.55…lord’s praise
  • 40.65…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 41.42…praiseworthy, lord
  • 42.5…lord’s praise
  • 42.28…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 45.36…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 47.2…a MAN praised much – praised one
  • 48.29…a MAN praised much – praised one
  • 50.39…lord’s praise
  • 52.48…lord’s praise
  • 57.24…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 60.6…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 61.6…a MAN praised
  • 64.1…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 64.6…“allah” is praiseworthy
  • 85.8…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 110.3…lord’s praise



Summarizing this data, we have the following premises upon which to build our understanding of the Koranic 'Muhammad':


  • The word itself is not a proper name
  • The word is a participle…i.e. it combines the functions of both adjective and verb
  • It applies to one man
  • This man is praised
  • He is the only man praised
  • The root 'hamida', from which 'Muhammad' is derived, refers to the praising of God
  • Surveying all 68 Koranic occurrences of the root 'hamida' and its sixteen derivatives, demonstrates the overwhelming usage in direct relation to Koranic deity (i.e. 'allah', lord)
  • The only Koranic instance of a derivative not pertaining to deity is in 3.188 - in which people are tortured for accepting praises – thus, reserving “praise” for deity only
  • This leaves us with 5 ayahs that 'appear' to buck the trend
  • All 5 of these ayahs refer to a man
  • All 5 ayahs refer to a man that is praised


Thus…

This begs the question…

1) How could the 'praising' (that is reserved only for Koranic deity) be applied to a single man?


Ok so far....?
 
Where is "allah's messenger" in the Bible? You want to claim the Koranic Muhammad is Jesus, so prove that with the Bible! This is a BDF, quote Biblical Scripture to prove your points!

'Messenger' is but one of legions of epithets used for the Biblical Jesus Christ, as thus...

Gal 4.13 -14


But you know that because of weakness of the flesh, I announced the gospel to you before; and you did not despise my trial in my flesh nor disdained it, but you received me as a Messenger of God, as Christ Jesus.
 
'Messenger' is but one of legions of epithets used for the Biblical Jesus Christ, as thus...

Gal 4.13 -14


But you know that because of weakness of the flesh, I announced the gospel to you before; and you did not despise my trial in my flesh nor disdained it, but you received me as a Messenger of God, as Christ Jesus.

Problem is, I don't see allah mentioned in the Bible! But it sure is an important name in the Koran no? Can you show me no place in the Bible where allah's name can be found? Last time I checked it wasn't in there!
 
Problem is, I don't see allah mentioned in the Bible! But it sure is an important name in the Koran no? Can you show me no place in the Bible where allah's name can be found? Last time I checked it wasn't in there!


That is no problem at all, because the Koranic 'allah' is NOT the Biblical Yahweh.

 
That is no problem at all, because the Koranic 'allah' is NOT the Biblical Yahweh.


You didn't answer my question. I'm sure if I asked you to prove Muhammad from the Bible you wouldn't be able to do it either. I'm not playing your word games, you've insulted quite a few people already. The Koran has no place in the BDF. The Koran is of the devil! It should end up like the books in Acts 19:19 for poisoning the souls of multitudes!