Once saved, always saved

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Apr 9, 2016
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"James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ———his letter Chapter 1 to the "Jewish-Christian Churches in Palestine. I think what is important is not so much to whom the letters were addressed to, but what the reader is gets out of it for example——"an exhortation of "ethical conduct" sadly needed in today's relativism.

AMDG
 
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Arigirl

Guest
[FONT=Adobe Arabic, serif]I am very aware that I do not earn my own salvation, Brother. Don't worry. For I know if I sin, my work will not save me. My good deeds are worthless specks. What blots out my sin but the precious blood of Jesus? And yet I know, that I am accountable to walk uprightly. What is my salvation if I don't turn from my sin? "Why do you say to me, 'Lord, lord' but do not the things that I say?" Luke 6:46. "If you love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. God blots out my sin so that I am free! I don't HAVE to sin anymore. I don't WANT to sin anymore! Praise God I'm free and I can praise his name with a pure heart and conscience! [/FONT]
 
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Chuckt

Guest
To understand the answer to the question posed here, let's first look at the definition of what it is to be saved. What is salvation? Sal*va*tion. :deliverance from sin and its consequences. So, if you keep sinning, then you're not really saved. If you watch porn every night and are a habitual liar, you're not saved because you're still sinning. That's like saying I'm saved from debt, but I keep gambling and bringing it up without repentance. And you can say, "Well, if you repent all the time, then it's okay." In some ways that is true, but not fully. Let's define repentance: "sincere regret or remorse." If you sincerely regret something, you're not quick to do it again. You may at some point stumble, but it's not all the time. You don't just say, "Sorry" half heartedly and expect God to buy your lie and call that repentance. It's a matter of your heart. Examine yourself, and hold your salvation with "fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12. Make sure you're always being "sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" 1 Peter 5:8
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

I believe God declared it from the beginning that:

Romans 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

God declared from the beginning that there is none righteous and even if you stop sinning, you aren't righteous.

I also think that by commandment keeping, doing good works, etc., you cannot birth yourself:

Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

"Born Again" means "Born from Above" or "Second Birth" and just as you didn't birth yourself physically, you cannot birth yourself spiritually by doing good works or by stop sinning.

So how do you get birthed?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And there that phrase is again: "nor of the will of man" which means not by trying not to sin or trying to repent because that won't make you born again because you have to be born from above.

When you are born from above through grace then your argument doesn't matter anymore.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
I am very aware that I do not earn my own salvation, Brother. Don't worry. For I know if I sin, my work will not save me. My good deeds are worthless specks. What blots out my sin but the precious blood of Jesus? And yet I know, that I am accountable to walk uprightly. What is my salvation if I don't turn from my sin? "Why do you say to me, 'Lord, lord' but do not the things that I say?" Luke 6:46. "If you love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. God blots out my sin so that I am free! I don't HAVE to sin anymore. I don't WANT to sin anymore! Praise God I'm free and I can praise his name with a pure heart and conscience!
Basically your argument is there is no salvation if we sin and the Bible says there is redemption:

"In {Him} whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"-Colossians 1:14

And what if we are not upright?

“Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.”-Habakkuk 2:4
 
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AuntieAnt

Guest
Here is a great 42 minute video on biblical repentance. This word has been "hi-jacked" by religion from it's real use in biblical times.


[video=vimeo;112172173]https://vimeo.com/112172173[/video]

This is such a life changing message. I forwarded it on Facebook to my family members, some friends & former co-workers & my former boss. Thank you for sharing this. It only confirms what God has been saying to my heart all along - only believe. He is more wonderful than our own understanding can grasp.
:eek:
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Nonsense. James is a perfectly Christian letter, written to the whole church as its content shows (no one coud have written only to Jews and not have dealt with relations with Gentiles). Writing as the leading member of the Jerusalem church he felt perfectly justified in addressing the church as the twelve tribes.
The letter is addressed to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. When Scripture uses twelve tribes it is always a reference to the whole nation of Israel. It doesn't allow for an interpretation of only the saved of the nation. The New Testament is not exception - Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30 and even in Acts 26:

6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:

7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.


Whenever Christians out of the twelve tribes are referred to, they are clearly designated apart from the twelve tribes. Saved Jews are referred to as "the remnant" (Romans 9:27,11:5); believing Jews (Romans 1:16).

Next, James makes it clear that unsaved Jews were part of his audience. He tells those he is writing to that they should "receive with meekness" the word of God because it is "able to save their souls" (James 1:21). It is clear that there were some of those in James' intended audience who had not yet received the word of God and that their souls were not yet saved.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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The letter is addressed to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. When Scripture uses twelve tribes it is always a reference to the whole nation of Israel.
I am afraid you are WRONG. When Jesus said that the apostles would sit on twelve thrones 'judging' (ruling) the twelve tribes of Israel He was referring to what they would shortly do in overseeing the church of God, just as Peter called the whole church
an elect race and a holy nation (1 Peter 2.9). They saw the church as the Israel of God
 
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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I am afraid you are WRONG. When Jesus said that the apostles would sit on twelve thrones 'judging' (ruling) the twelve tribes of Israel He was referring to what they would shortly do in overseeing the church of God, just as Peter called the whole church
an elect race and a holy nation (1 Peter 2.9). They saw the church as the Israel of God
Those are references to the kingdom on earth where Christ is King. That's a nation of Israel event. That's the Davidic covenant God promised to the nation of Israel not the Church, the body of Christ.

You are spiritualizing the Scpriptures instead of taken them literally. When did the twelve sit on thrones judging? That's a future event in the Millennium.
 
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Apr 9, 2016
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The message of the Bible seems to be getting lost in the usual quagmire of how ONE interprets——-The Bible is God's initiative to enter into a human relationship with human beings.

A huge percentage of Biblical interpretation is filtered into one's frame of reference, rather than the one fitting one's self into the Bible. That my dear friends, is a fact. Which is why we have a dozen or so opinions on this board.
 
Apr 9, 2016
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True faith is a life of good deeds, generosity and love of neighbor and that proper conduct can only come about with an authentic commitment to God in "faith and good works".

AMDG
 
Apr 9, 2016
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Arigirl—-

says: " if I sin my work will not save me (depends on your work), but "my good deeds are worthless specks"…
1. a good deed is never a worthless " speck", done honestly, in the eyes of Christ.
2. if you are sinning,,,then what pray tell is your uhh "good deeds"…The Pharisees stood on the corner praying, (of course in public) and then placed ostentatiously coins in the collection,,,uhh a good deed? But the sin of pride was there.

There's a certain incompatibility with doing good and constantly sinning, nes't pas?

Just some thoughts————AMDG
 
Feb 24, 2015
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To those who say religion has hijacked certain concepts you have to unpack what they are actually saying.
It is not what it appears.
It I sin against a person, hit them, cause harm, I need to put things right. It is a basic relationship issue as well as a spiritual one. Jesus is saying the behaviour of seeing the harm and putting things right is His will.

Now these "non" religious folk will now say. Oh no it is much more complex. You are already forgiven before you sin, so you do not have to feel bad about your behaviour just change your mind. Focusing on the bad behaviour and feeling bad about it is evil, you need to look to Jesus alone. You need to be aware of what you are in Christ etc.

Now the odd thing is normal life just puts the relationship right, and does not have all this religious disfunctional behaviour on top. Yet these non-religious people think their behaviour is reality, what Jesus is the real message, and "religion" dictates guilt and feeling bad about sin, repenting of it and dealing with the harm done.

This hopefully explains why having a simple conversation with them on these issues is so hard, because they are so wrapped up in their religious language and redefining everything, they are not much earthly use.
 
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roaringkitten

Guest
Hebrews chapter 9 is one of many chapters in Hebrews that speak of the central means of salvation-the blood sacrifice of Christ! Everything from the OT sacrificial system pointed to the one time sacrifice of Jesus!

1
Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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I am very aware that I do not earn my own salvation, Brother. Don't worry. For I know if I sin, my work will not save me. My good deeds are worthless specks. What blots out my sin but the precious blood of Jesus? And yet I know, that I am accountable to walk uprightly. What is my salvation if I don't turn from my sin? "Why do you say to me, 'Lord, lord' but do not the things that I say?" Luke 6:46. "If you love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. God blots out my sin so that I am free! I don't HAVE to sin anymore. I don't WANT to sin anymore! Praise God I'm free and I can praise his name with a pure heart and conscience!
Simple truth that one can apply to their life.

Birds fly, fish swim and Christians grow.

If one professes to know Christ as Savior and does not grow in the admonition and nurture of the Lord how can they be called Christians?

Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Is our heavenly Father any less concerned about our maturity than our earthly fathers?

Only Christ buys slaves and makes them heirs. We are taken out of the darkness of sin and placed into His glorious kingdom of Light.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Simple truth that one can apply to their life.

Birds fly, fish swim and Christians grow.
The difference between birds/fish and Christians is that the former are driven by instinct (inherent pre-programmed intelligence) and the latter are endowed with free will and virtually no instinct (programmable intelligence). So with the former growth is essentially automatic; with the latter growth does not happen without the application of free will to both learn and obey.
 
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BrotherJustin

Guest
The difference between birds/fish and Christians is that the former are driven by instinct (inherent pre-programmed intelligence) and the latter are endowed with free will and virtually no instinct (programmable intelligence). So with the former growth is essentially automatic; with the latter growth does not happen without the application of free will to both learn and obey.
I can't tell if you missed the point, or saw it but wanted to bend it into a new point...

...regardless, I've got the urge to punch you in the face...

...a loving punch--don't fret.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Faith and deeds are pretty well explained in James, Chapter 2. If faith is all you need, then why bother with the Ten Commandments, and the Beatitudes. If I commit an act of adultery in a moment of weakness, but I have faith,,,,,is the adulterous act out the window, forgotten?

There was a woman, a "Bible Only" devotee who left her husband for whtever reasons. Now there is in the Bible something about a spouse who ups and leaves her husband or wife. The woman, to get around the sinful act stated that she considered her husband dead and therefore was allowed to marry of have a boyfriend, whatever. Seems her faith was the issue——??

Since the woman had no mention of repentance, she felt perfectly saved by her faith……. her personal beliefs, her own moral self determination, her faith.

DEUS EST CARITAS
If one claims to have faith but has no works, Can that faith save them?

It was not faith James was arguing, it was a claimed, or professed faith James was fighting.

A dead faith is no faith at all.

Can someone be saved with no faith (dead)? No.

Problem solved.
 
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Arigirl

Guest
Sir,you're not understanding my point. My point isn't I'm saved from my works: it's that my obedience to God is a RESULT of my salvation. You can't say you're born again and live them same way, it's impossible.
Matthew 25: “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me." That right there is a RESULT of their faith in God. It is a RESULT of their love toward God. That is what PROVES that they have been born again, because when you're made NEW you don't act the SAME. James2:18-20 “But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?”
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I can't tell if you missed the point, or saw it but wanted to bend it into a new point...

...regardless, I've got the urge to punch you in the face...

...a loving punch--don't fret.
What was the point that you think I could have missed? I think I fully understood the point of the comment and was clarifying that animals/plants and humans don't operate according to the same principals.