The essential characteristics of the Biblical Jesus

[Dan_473]

This thread is intended to continue the discussion from

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134148-intersection-theoogy-science-14.html

I think it's a great comparison. the bom talks about Jesus, but I've heard it's a Jesus who is a brother of Satan... the biblical Jesus is the incarnation of the one true God, but in the gita, Arjuna's chariot driver is an incarnation of krishna.

I think the biblical Jesus has some essential characteristics that I'd be surprised if they were found in the koran... though, I haven't read it, so they may be there.

does the koranic Jesus die for our sins according to the scriptures (the old testament, I assume)?

What are the essential characteristics of the biblical Jesus, does the koran attribute to Jesus those same characteristics? Or, is he "another jesus", as Paul wrote about.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The one overriding essential characteristic of the biblical Jesus is that He is God.

So, yeah, the Jesus of the koran is "another Jesus".

 

[Dan_473]

(from the other thread)

If you haven't even read it, then why do you think that it is a 'great comparison'...?

I haven't read the book of mormon, either... but judging from what mormons believe, I'd be surprised to find that it's the same Jesus.

so, for anyone that has read the koran and believes that it's the same Jesus as in the bible.. I'd be very interested to see those same essential characteristics talked about in the koran.

 

[Dan_473]

The one overriding essential characteristic of the biblical Jesus is that He is God.

So, yeah, the Jesus of the koran is "another Jesus".

I would assume that, too... that the Jesus of the koran isn't God incarnate.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

According to scripture.

1. Jesus is a man of peace, sent to save, not judge
2. Jesus was the son of God
3. Jesus was born of a virgin
4. jesus is the first and th last
5. Jesus had no beginning, and no end, (he is God)
6. Jesus died for the sin of mankind,
7. Jesus rose from the dead
8. Jesus raised people from the dead// turned water to wine, made the lame walk, the blind able to see, Cast out demons, Etc etc.


just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Mec99]

Jesus is the Son of God and Jesus IS God!

Enough said!

 

[Bowman]

(from the other thread)


I haven't read the book of mormon, either... but judging from what mormons believe, I'd be surprised to find that it's the same Jesus.

so, for anyone that has read the koran and believes that it's the same Jesus as in the bible.. I'd be very interested to see those same essential characteristics talked about in the koran.

Dan....

Why do you insist upon making comparisons with literature that you, yourself, have not even bothered to read?

The bom admits, on page 82, footnote2A, that it merely wholesale copied the KJV Bible....thus, this should already be talking about the Biblical Jesus Christ.

Further, this entire discussion has always been about what the text states - NOT how adherents interpret it...

 

[Bowman]

so, for anyone that has read the koran and believes that it's the same Jesus as in the bible.. I'd be very interested to see those same essential characteristics talked about in the koran.

Here's a simple one...

فصل لربك وانحر

Fasalli lirabbika wainhar

108.2 So you pray to your Lord and Sacrifice.

 

[notuptome]

Dan....

Why do you insist upon making comparisons with literature that you, yourself, have not even bothered to read?

The bom admits, on page 82, footnote2A, that it merely wholesale copied the KJV Bible....thus, this should already be talking about the Biblical Jesus Christ.

Further, this entire discussion has always been about what the text states - NOT how adherents interpret it...

There are a number of bibles copied from the KJV that lost the divinity of Jesus in the copying. They receive the humanity of Christ but reject His divinity and holiness. They like Him just fine as a man but cannot accept Him as God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Here's a simple one...

فصل لربك وانحر

Fasalli lirabbika wainhar

108.2 So you pray to your Lord and Sacrifice.

Perfect example of how Jesus is seen as human and not God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Bowman]

I would assume that, too... that the Jesus of the koran isn't God incarnate.

We all know what happens when we 'assume' something...

 

[Bowman]

Perfect example of how Jesus is seen as human and not God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Can you demonstrate how you came to that conclusion....?

 

[BrotherJustin]

Can you demonstrate how you came to that conclusion....?

I won't speak for Roger--but I'd say 'Lord' and 'Sacrifice' are not words which show Christ's deity, but show his humanity.

 

[notuptome]

Can you demonstrate how you came to that conclusion....?

Why? The statement you posted can be interpreted in many ways and none of them by necessity reach the conclusion that Jesus is God. Islam will avow that Jesus cannot be God.

You must Christianize Islam to reach your proposed conclusion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[roaringkitten]

According to scripture.

1. Jesus is a man of peace, sent to save, not judge
2. Jesus was the son of God
3. Jesus was born of a virgin
4. jesus is the first and th last
5. Jesus had no beginning, and no end, (he is God)
6. Jesus died for the sin of mankind,
7. Jesus rose from the dead
8. Jesus raised people from the dead// turned water to wine, made the lame walk, the blind able to see, Cast out demons, Etc etc.


just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

Good points, some Scriptures that come to mind:

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

"...for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." Psa 138:2

Salvation can not come under any other name. The Word of God is even higher! The Bible is not comparable to any other book! Not even to the Koran! Any "Jesus" that is not the Jesus that Paul preached(2 Cor 11:4) is "another Jesus" which cannot save anyone.

 

[Bowman]

I won't speak for Roger--but I'd say 'Lord' and 'Sacrifice' are not words which show Christ's deity, but show his humanity.

Look to the Arabic, for clarity...

فصل لربك وانحر

Fasalli lirabbika wainhar

108.2 Soyou pray to your Lord and Sacrifice.



انحر= “inhar”


“inhar” definition:

Singular noun. Offer sacrifice; devote ones life for the humanity; place ones hand in prayer on the upper part of the chest.

It comes from the root “nahara” (nun-ha-ra), which means to slaughter, sacrifice, injure the jugular vein, put hand on the upper part of the chest; to sacrifice by cutting the jugular vein. He stabbed, or stuck a camel, or a beast, in the throat. He slew.


وانحر = “wa” + “inhar” = “wainhar” = and sacrifice



References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2774 – 2775
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 555
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 144
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 191





Occurrences of “wainhar” in the Koran: 1

Location: 108.2



Occurrences of the root “nahara” and its one derivative in the Koran: 1

Location: 108.2

 

[Bowman]

Why? The statement you posted can be interpreted in many ways and none of them by necessity reach the conclusion that Jesus is God.

In Koranic Arabic, the answer is rather simple...and takes the guess work out of things, like you are doing..

Islam will avow that Jesus cannot be God.

We are not discussing islam.

We are discussing the Koran.

Two entirely different things.

You must Christianize Islam to reach your proposed conclusion.

Educate is the proper term here, I believe...

 

[notuptome]

In Koranic Arabic, the answer is rather simple...and takes the guess work out of things, like you are doing..




We are not discussing islam.

We are discussing the Koran.

Two entirely different things.







Educate is the proper term here, I believe...

Believe what you want but if you spent more time in the bible and less time chasing after every wind of doctrine you would be far better off.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[BrotherJustin]

I see your "simple" 'Koranic Arabic' answer, Bowman...

Look to the Arabic, for clarity...

فصل لربك وانحر

Fasalli lirabbika wainhar

108.2Soyou pray to your Lord and Sacrifice.



انحر= “inhar”


“inhar” definition:

Singular noun. Offer sacrifice; devote ones life for the humanity; place ones hand in prayer on the upper part of the chest.

It comes from the root “nahara” (nun-ha-ra), which means to slaughter, sacrifice, injure the jugular vein, put hand on the upper part of the chest; to sacrifice by cutting the jugular vein. He stabbed, or stuck a camel, or a beast, in the throat. He slew.


وانحر = “wa” + “inhar” = “wainhar” = and sacrifice



References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2774 – 2775
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 555
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 144
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 191





Occurrences of “wainhar” in the Koran: 1

Location: 108.2



Occurrences of the root “nahara” and its one derivative in the Koran: 1

Location: 108.2

So, the Arabic word for sacrifice means the same as the English word "sacrifice"...

... yeah, no argument here on the definition of 'sacrifice'.

It seems the definition of "inhar" does not lead us to conclude that their Muhammad was a deity.

I am quite certain animal sacrifice has been around for quite some time (Old Testament). Didn't the ancient Aztecs and/or Mayans practice human sacrifice?

There is nothing about the example you gave concerning the Koran's referencing Muhammad as Lord and Sacrifice which leads me to believe that the Koran presents Muhammad as a deity or as Christ.

 

[Bowman]

Believe what you want but if you spent more time in the bible and less time chasing after every wind of doctrine you would be far better off.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I've spent several decades studying the original languages of both.....and am fully prepared to defend the Holy Bible against ANY Muslim attack against it.

Christians would do well to prepare themselves by knowing what the other-side is about...rather than following the Islamic lie, blindly...