The Evils Of Adoption

[Dread_Zeppelin]

Until someone can convince me of this I find it hard to accept that adoption is in God's best interest. If our Lord didn't do this then I think we can safely deduce what God thinks is "best for all."

Quest

Its hard to convince someone who obviously doesn't want to be. Thats what we call hard-heartedness. There have been people on this forum who are adopted and told you that it was the best thing that ever happened to them. You are still not convinced. There is no convincing you. Stop making your opinion Gods opinion, and not the other way around.

If you were a humble Christian, you wouldn't have hurt the people by your words in such ways. I can only deduce that this is your own agenda and not Gods.

Dont get offended by my words- I'm not saying them in anger. I wish for everyone to open their eyes and hearts for correction (including myself) but this subject/material doesn't sit right with me.

 

[QuestionTime]

Its hard to convince someone who obviously doesn't want to be. Thats what we call hard-heartedness. There have been people on this forum who are adopted and told you that it was the best thing that ever happened to them. You are still not convinced. There is no convincing you. Stop making your opinion Gods opinion, and not the other way around.

If you were a humble Christian, you wouldn't have hurt the people by your words in such ways. I can only deduce that this is your own agenda and not Gods.

Dont get offended by my words- I'm not saying them in anger. I wish for everyone to open their eyes and hearts for correction (including myself) but this subject/material doesn't sit right with me.

Dread,

I was quite convinced by April's post actually and I made compromise with her that a middle ground is best. This I believe is more than the pro adoption side - in general - is willing to give.

However I have still offered a challenge on the topic of Jesus' own behavior when He lived in this world, as to how he would handle a young birthmom who would find raising a child on her own to be extremely difficult or impossible. I have argued that Jesus would take a different approach than adoption, and this logic is thus far, yet to be refuted.

Have I been a jerk about this? I humbly confess that I have been. I do have a tendency to let my emotions get the best of me.

Quest

 

[Dread_Zeppelin]

Dread,

I was quite convinced by April's post actually and I made compromise with her that a middle ground is best. This I believe is more than the pro adoption side - in general - is willing to give.

However I have still offered a challenge on the topic of Jesus' own behavior when He lived in this world, as to how he would handle a young birthmom who would find raising a child on her own to be extremely difficult or impossible. I have argued that Jesus would take a different approach than adoption, and this logic is thus far, yet to be refuted.

Have I been a jerk? I suppose I have been. I do have a tendency to let my emotions get the best of me.

Quest

Alright, I understand that. I commend you on your humbleness.

To say that we know what Jesus would have done according to the Bible is really taking a dangerous stance. I say dangerous because effectively we put our words in Jesus' mouth.

I refuse to preach that Jesus would have done anything according to my own opinion if it hasn't been addressed by the Bible personally or at least "hinted" at. This isn't the "Bible according to Rachel's guesses"

I'm not sure what you classify this birthmom to be. What if the birthmom is extremely abusive, or a witch, or someone who hated children? What would Jesus say then? What if she hates Jesus? What would he say? You just can't know.

 

[QuestionTime]

If I may be allowed to present; my final understanding as to what is the very best conclusion on this issue - as in many things in life - is a middle ground. With that theme in mind I will now repeat this post again as I feel it most sensibly describes the best course of action for us all:

Our arguments both merge right in the middle of the adoption issue. If the lean is toward the "pro adotion" end of the spectrum - and clearly in this forum it is - more children will be adopted away against the will of their families, for the profits of adoption agents. If the lean - however - is toward "anti adoption" , the more children will be allowed to remain in abusive, or even deadly situations. Neither of these results are acceptable.

I must conclude then, that being in the middle is the best place that we all can be, and it is where everyone should stand in regards to this issue. The middle will always be the safest place for us all, in order to best prevent abuse of one kind or the other.

Special thanks to Dread and April for the excellent logic within their posts which has converted me to a more moderate stance.

Quest

 

[MaryR]

Indeed Pickles I took a hard stance, but I feel it is necessary because this issue is so lopsided.

Still no one here has convinced me that if our Lord was here today, that he would take a birthmother's baby, give it to someone else (adoptive mother) and then send the birthmother on her way without help. Until someone can convince me of this I find it hard to accept that adoption is in God's best interest. If our Lord didn't do this then I think we can safely deduce what God thinks is "best for all."

Quest

Okay, I'd like to start by saying to ChrisWiara and AprilRenee that I respect both of you in particular for your attempts at understanding the situation of everyone involved in the question of adoption and respectfully voicing your opinions.
Secondly, Quest, based off of the above quote I would say that your thread is wrongly titled. Perhaps you should be arguing that we should be willing to help women who have babies in a rough situation or women who need assistance in general. That seems to me to be the most valid idea in your argument.
I have several problems with what you're arguing, but I think that the thing that most people have a problem with is that it seems (whether intentionally or not) that you are attacking people who adopt children. I don't believe that this is fair or justified in any way. Someone (Dread maybe?) quoted James 1:27, something that I believe applies to this situation. I'd also like to give you these verses to consider:
A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling. God sets the lonely in families.
Psalm 68:5-6

A father to the fatherless- to try to be like God is not a sin. Be a father to the fatherless.

Another that I love is Matthew 18:5
And whoever welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me.

Just my opinion. =)

 

[QuestionTime]

Okay, I'd like to start by saying to ChrisWiara and AprilRenee that I respect both of you in particular for your attempts at understanding the situation of everyone involved in the question of adoption and respectfully voicing your opinions.
Secondly, Quest, based off of the above quote I would say that your thread is wrongly titled. Perhaps you should be arguing that we should be willing to help women who have babies in a rough situation or women who need assistance in general. That seems to me to be the most valid idea in your argument.
I have several problems with what you're arguing, but I think that the thing that most people have a problem with is that it seems (whether intentionally or not) that you are attacking people who adopt children. I don't believe that this is fair or justified in any way. Someone (Dread maybe?) quoted James 1:27, something that I believe applies to this situation. I'd also like to give you these verses to consider:
A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling. God sets the lonely in families.
Psalm 68:5-6

A father to the fatherless- to try to be like God is not a sin. Be a father to the fatherless.

Another that I love is Matthew 18:5
And whoever welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me.

Just my opinion. =)

What a tremendous post from you, MaryR! Indeed, reading your words above have brought a certain scripture to memory:

Col 4:6 "Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man."

Your words fulfilled that scripture perfectly.

Quest.

 

[Pheonix]

Well, in acient times unwanted babies were left for the animals and elements to kill. The idea was that if the gods wanted the children to survive then they would provide. Maybe we should start that practice again.

Oh wait, that's illegal.

97.7% of 1000 isn't a reliable statistic. There are tens of thousands of people giving birth every day, and you want to make a point based on 1000. What has happened is that the people who created that poll went out and found 980 mothers who were coerced and then sprinkled in a few who weren't to get the results they wanted and make it look objective.

I'm not saying that doesn't go on, it probably does. But 99% out of 100 web pages are a load of rubbish and nothing more than inaccurate opinions. Usually badly informed opinions.

 

[Pheonix]

I must conclude then, that being in the middle is the best place that we all can be, and it is where everyone should stand in regards to this issue. The middle will always be the safest place for us all, in order to best prevent abuse of one kind or the other.

What exactly is the middle ground if leaving the kids in abusive homes is wrong and being gunho about adoption is wrong?

 

[QuestionTime]

I'm not saying that doesn't go on, it probably does. But 99% out of 100 web pages are a load of rubbish and nothing more than inaccurate opinions. Usually badly informed opinions.

These are strong words Pheonix. We cannot make judgments about these statistics unless we have access to the same infinite knowledge that God has.

The problem is that these statistics go against well believed notions about adoption in our society, and therefore people find them difficult to believe. I understand that, but just because they are difficult to believe, doesn't mean that they can't possibly be true.

Anyway, this thread has already been concluded. See my post number #64 above.

Take care,

Quest

 

[Chris-Wiara]

Okay, I'd like to start by saying to ChrisWiara and AprilRenee that I respect both of you in particular for your attempts at understanding the situation of everyone involved in the question of adoption and respectfully voicing your opinions.

I actually quit the discussion here to avoid getting heated in debate, it's one of my problems I'm working with...So thanks for the kind words, I like how your post was also considerate of both sides and yet you also voiced your opinion but with respect.


Chris

 

[MaryR]

I actually quit the discussion here to avoid getting heated in debate, it's one of my problems I'm working with...So thanks for the kind words, I like how your post was also considerate of both sides and yet you also voiced your opinion but with respect.


Chris

Anytime, Chris. I always admire people who have that ability.
And I understand leaving the discussion. If I know I can't handle it without turning into a witch (interpret this word however you'd like... haha), I leave. =)

 

[forgivenandloved]

do you realize how many women don't want babies, pregnant teens and all the abuse cases. There are so many children who are just unwanted and abandoned. I am curious on what you think about that. Statistics are crap by the way because they rig it. They'll ask the questions differently than the way they put it up. How about foreign adoptions from kids from Africa and those places what do you think?

 

[pickles]

Indeed Pickles I took a hard stance, but I feel it is necessary because this issue is so lopsided.

Still no one here has convinced me that if our Lord was here today, that he would take a birthmother's baby, give it to someone else (adoptive mother) and then send the birthmother on her way without help. Until someone can convince me of this I find it hard to accept that adoption is in God's best interest. If our Lord didn't do this then I think we can safely deduce what God thinks is "best for all."

Quest

It seems to me one of your great concerns is the mother after she has given up her child.
There are many good programs, in fact , my sister helped to found one of the care centers that is nation wide now.
This program helps the mothers with all needs wether it is in keeping their child or in giving the gift of adoption.
This center provides counceling, needed supplies, medical help and help with understanding all the rights of the mother.
It survives compleatly on donations and has been very succesful.
Most adoptions are open now and the mothers can even have visiting days.
I think the reason that you cannot find much in the scriptures about this is , as in many things God has allowed us the choice in this.
I hope you can find some peace in this quest.
But always remember, all is in the hands of God.
God bless, pickles

 

[QuestionTime]

It seems to me one of your great concerns is the mother after she has given up her child.

With the way I treated my birthmother when I met her a decade ago, I am surprised that I feel this way now. I suppose I have grown up a little bit since then.

Quest

 

[pickles]

I understand. My sister's greatest concern was if her child would think that it was about rejection.
She carried that concern for many years.
Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to see through the eyes of another, even when all you know tells you the other is wrong.
But this is exactly what Jesus did for us. He took all our wrongs so that we could be seen by God as pure.
To do this is truelly humbling, but can open your eyes to Jesus as never before.
Not to look on another as sinful or evil, but as innocent and childlike, struggleing as all of us do to find the truth in Jesus.
God bless, pickles

 

[imoss]

I had an abortion. My best friend had her baby & did a private adoption.

I enjoy the pictures of the life of that beautiful girl on facebook. I joy her vibrance, I joy her horsejumping and barrel racing video's. I joy her very life.

I dont joy my babies life, cause I ended it.

Satan condemned me for that well into my Christian walk, I received the Lords forgiveness but allowed satan to call me a murderer. I've now forgiven myself as the Lord has forgiven me.

I think it shouldnt be about anti adoption, I think it should be about spending the time to try to locate the best place, as my best friend did and as I wish I would have done. Ultimately it would have been best to never be pregnant in the first place but sometimes situations place you where you have no control over that or sometimes people just make mistakes.

I also admit to not reading pages 2 & 3 on here before posting so if this offends anyone who posted there I apologise.

What is the better alternative, to have never been born? I understand in an issue like this that everyone has their personal perspective.

This is mine. God Bless you all and I would definitely cheer to hear of the adoption of a child.

.

 

[imoss]

oh I just read back & found out you closed the thread. Why did you direct me to a closed thread in another? Sorry for posting, didnt know it was closed.

 

[QuestionTime]

oh I just read back & found out you closed the thread. Why did you direct me to a closed thread in another? Sorry for posting, didnt know it was closed.

Are you saying that I directed you here? Perhaps I did, I don't remember.

It's not officially closed, I just believe that a good conclusion was reached on the matter already.

Quest

 

[imoss]

cool. I just posted first then realized it was closed.

 

[Pheonix]

do you realize how many women don't want babies, pregnant teens and all the abuse cases. There are so many children who are just unwanted and abandoned. I am curious on what you think about that. Statistics are crap by the way because they rig it. They'll ask the questions differently than the way they put it up. How about foreign adoptions from kids from Africa and those places what do you think?

I realize I'm going to get an earful over this, but.....

In north america and the western world anyhow, if women don't want babies they should stop sleeping around. The only 100% fool proof method of birth control is to not have sex. We live in a culture where every form of birth control is advertised, advised and sold, yet very few people think about the free method. I guess its too inconvenient. It gets in the way of a persons fun.

I'm not including rape in the above. That is a whole other story.