Is the Devil bound right now...?
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I hear it all the time...and apparently, just because I comprehend scripture differently and can exegetically show why I do, then some feel it necessary to question my faith.
Scripturally, the over-arching thing to comprehend is what Jesus did for us on The Cross....and that is to take our #1 enemy out of the way so that we can freely come to the Triune God for Salvation.
The roadblock has been removed!
Why would anyone in their right mind want to deny what Jesus did for us on The Cross?
Most people would rather praise Satan for power that he does not have, rather than give praise to Jesus for what He did for us!
Scripturally, the over-arching thing to comprehend is what Jesus did for us on The Cross....and that is to take our #1 enemy out of the way so that we can freely come to the Triune God for Salvation.
The roadblock has been removed!
Why would anyone in their right mind want to deny what Jesus did for us on The Cross?
Most people would rather praise Satan for power that he does not have, rather than give praise to Jesus for what He did for us!
Hi RobbyEarl,
What Bowman and the other preterist don't understand is that, in order for the war in heaven to have taken place, then the 5th trumpet would have had to have taken place first, because it is the 1st woe. And the result of the 6th trumpet/2nd woe is a third of the earth's population being killed by those four fallen angels and their army of 200 million demonic beings. Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth is the 7th trumpet/3rd woe and these take place in sequential order, as can seen from the following:
5th Trumpet/1st woe:
A star/angel opens the Abyss and releases demonic beings who are commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of scorpions.
"The first woe has passed. Behold, two woes are still to follow.
6th Trumpet/2nd woe:
The four angels bound at the Euphrates are released and gather 200 million troops who kill a third of mankind.
"The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly
Since the casting out of Satan and his angels is the 7th Trumpet/3rd woe, and since we can see from the above that those trumpets are in sequential order, then the world would have had to have seen the results of the 5th and 6th trumpet, yet we have nothing in history that has recorded such events. By the way, a third of the earths population based on 7 billion people would be over 2 billion fatalities and we do not have such events recorded in all of history.
Before you can have Satan and his angels being thrown out of heaven, you first have to have the fulfillment of trumpet/woes 5 and 6 and that hasn't happened. You can't put the cart before the horse!
What Bowman and the other preterist don't understand is that, in order for the war in heaven to have taken place, then the 5th trumpet would have had to have taken place first, because it is the 1st woe. And the result of the 6th trumpet/2nd woe is a third of the earth's population being killed by those four fallen angels and their army of 200 million demonic beings. Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth is the 7th trumpet/3rd woe and these take place in sequential order, as can seen from the following:
5th Trumpet/1st woe:
A star/angel opens the Abyss and releases demonic beings who are commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of scorpions.
"The first woe has passed. Behold, two woes are still to follow.
6th Trumpet/2nd woe:
The four angels bound at the Euphrates are released and gather 200 million troops who kill a third of mankind.
"The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly
Since the casting out of Satan and his angels is the 7th Trumpet/3rd woe, and since we can see from the above that those trumpets are in sequential order, then the world would have had to have seen the results of the 5th and 6th trumpet, yet we have nothing in history that has recorded such events. By the way, a third of the earths population based on 7 billion people would be over 2 billion fatalities and we do not have such events recorded in all of history.
Before you can have Satan and his angels being thrown out of heaven, you first have to have the fulfillment of trumpet/woes 5 and 6 and that hasn't happened. You can't put the cart before the horse!
You've taken your time explaining with due diligence, I haven't once seen you get nasty out of everything I've read. You relate the scripture where the misinterpretations can occur precisely. " pretty well drawn out "... Then to just get spit on, accused, disrespected, and this isn't the first one I seen say this, questioning your salvation... Disgusting, but I thank you, your work is appreciated.
Hi John,
Yes, the people during the thousand year reign of Christ will see His face and that because he will be here physically ruling from Jerusalem from the throne of King David.
"Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson? Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength? “It is I, proclaiming victory, mighty to save.” Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress? “I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing. It was for me the day of vengeance; the year for me to redeem had come. I looked, but there was no one to help, I was appalled that no one gave support; so my own arm achieved salvation for me, and my own wrath sustained me. I trampled the nations in my anger; in my wrath I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground.”
"On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him."
"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
"Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God. The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty. And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:
King of kings and Lord of lords.
Now, before anyone confuses or misinterprets the scriptures above, these are all prophecies regarding the Lord's return to the earth when He ends the age and establishes His millennial kingdom and where at which time is when Satan will be bound in the Abyss. The above prophesies ARE NOT referring to the gathering of the church, which will have taken place several years earlier.
Yes, the people during the thousand year reign of Christ will see His face and that because he will be here physically ruling from Jerusalem from the throne of King David.
"Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson? Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength? “It is I, proclaiming victory, mighty to save.” Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress? “I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing. It was for me the day of vengeance; the year for me to redeem had come. I looked, but there was no one to help, I was appalled that no one gave support; so my own arm achieved salvation for me, and my own wrath sustained me. I trampled the nations in my anger; in my wrath I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground.”
"On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him."
"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
"Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God. The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty. And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:
King of kings and Lord of lords.
Now, before anyone confuses or misinterprets the scriptures above, these are all prophecies regarding the Lord's return to the earth when He ends the age and establishes His millennial kingdom and where at which time is when Satan will be bound in the Abyss. The above prophesies ARE NOT referring to the gathering of the church, which will have taken place several years earlier.
Hello MsSuzanna,
Yes, unfortunately I know the things they do in order to make end-time events fit. Anyone who seriously thinks that we are currently living in the thousand year period -- which according to preterists/amils is not a literal thousand years -- knows nothing about end-time events. One of the ways they also come to their interpretation of the thousand years not being literal, is that they take Psalms 50:10 and apply the meaning to Rev.20:1-3 which says:
"for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills."
So, since the scripture above infers that the number of cattle and the reference to "a thousand hills" is figurative representing an unknown number, they ignore the context of Rev.20:1-3 and apply the meaning from Psalm 50:10 to it. Yeah, I know right? I heard everybody groaning at this. How about just believing what the scripture says instead of looking for some obscure meaning? However, we all know that the preterist's did not come to this conclusion by themselves, as this a false teaching that they adopted and now teach.
Oye Vey!
Yes, unfortunately I know the things they do in order to make end-time events fit. Anyone who seriously thinks that we are currently living in the thousand year period -- which according to preterists/amils is not a literal thousand years -- knows nothing about end-time events. One of the ways they also come to their interpretation of the thousand years not being literal, is that they take Psalms 50:10 and apply the meaning to Rev.20:1-3 which says:
"for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills."
So, since the scripture above infers that the number of cattle and the reference to "a thousand hills" is figurative representing an unknown number, they ignore the context of Rev.20:1-3 and apply the meaning from Psalm 50:10 to it. Yeah, I know right? I heard everybody groaning at this. How about just believing what the scripture says instead of looking for some obscure meaning? However, we all know that the preterist's did not come to this conclusion by themselves, as this a false teaching that they adopted and now teach.
Oye Vey!
Brother Ahwatukee,
If you want to believe that Revelation is one continual timeline, that's up to you.
I don't believe that, I have replied in detail in the thread, "Attention all prophecy seekers"
You do have some real problems with your theory, as I'm sure you are now aware of.
If you would like to pick up where we left off, we can return there and continue our discussion.
This thread is about the binding of the dragon in Rev 20, shall we discuss that?
The dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns is Rome isn't it, a nation? Rev 12:3. The beast of Rev 17?
If you want to believe that Revelation is one continual timeline, that's up to you.
I don't believe that, I have replied in detail in the thread, "Attention all prophecy seekers"
You do have some real problems with your theory, as I'm sure you are now aware of.
If you would like to pick up where we left off, we can return there and continue our discussion.
This thread is about the binding of the dragon in Rev 20, shall we discuss that?
The dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns is Rome isn't it, a nation? Rev 12:3. The beast of Rev 17?
The most important event in the history of mankind occurred at The Cross.
Satan was bound, and we now reign with Christ...
Rev 5.9 - 10 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy are You to receive the scroll, and to open its seals, because You were slain, and by Your blood purchased us to God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and made us kings and priests to our God; and we shall reign over the earth.
The Greek word utilized here, egorasas, literally means 'to transfer ownership'.
The transfer in ownership was from Satan (as he was bound), to Jesus, and it occurred at The Cross.
Moreover, this event also triggered the 1K earthly reign - which we are in to this very day...
Be happy about it!
Brother Awatukee, Post 2070,
You say that your comments about Ps 50:10, are something I believe?
I have never said that! You Know that! All my remarks are recorded, where is the statement that I made that says that?
Why do you want to make it look like that is something I have said? Something that I believe?
You say that your comments about Ps 50:10, are something I believe?
I have never said that! You Know that! All my remarks are recorded, where is the statement that I made that says that?
Why do you want to make it look like that is something I have said? Something that I believe?
What is there to discuss John? The chronological order is clear:
1). Jesus returns to the earth to end the age (Rev.19:11-21)
2). The beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20)
3). Satan is bound in the literal location of the Abyss for a thousand years
4). The thousand year reign of Christ begins
This is the order of these events in Scripture. Forgive me for saying, but just as Paul spoke about, you are blown about by every wind of doctrine. It is near impossible to present scripture to preterist and amillennialists and that because they ignore the literal meaning of scripture and allegorize and symbolize it. They have no discernment! From Rev.20:1-7 the words "thousand years" appears 6 times. Whenever you see something mentioned repetitively like this, a good rule of thumb is to believe what it is literally saying, unless there is other evidence that it is symbolic.
Another problem with their interpretations is the misapplying of unrelated of scripture. As far as I am concerned these teachings are a form of brain-washing. They have learned a pre-package interpretation for most of the end-time topics and so when those topics are brought up, they are immediately ready with that pre-packaged answer and nothing else that you say matters.
The dragon/beast represents several individual things:
1). The dragon as Satan:
"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth"
"The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."
"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."
2). The Beast as a kingdom:
" And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion."
"After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very
powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was
different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns."
"Your Majesty looked, and there before you stood a large statue—an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay.
Head of Gold = Babylon
Chest and Arms = Medo/Persia
Belly and thighs = Greece
Legs of Iron = Rome when it was in full power
Feet of partly iron and partly baked clay = A revived/extended Roman empire which is yet to come, but weaker with a mixture of people so that it doesn't have the same power.
3). The Beast as a person:
"One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against him?”
"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
"The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction." (Rev.17:11) Note: this is the future king, the head, which is a king, who receives the fatal wound in Rev.13.
"While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully"
"The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for forty-two months. And the beast opened his mouth to blaspheme against God and slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven. Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and conquer them, and he was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain."
The Seven Heads of the Beast:
"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.
"The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction."
The Ten Horns of the Beast:
"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast."
1). Jesus returns to the earth to end the age (Rev.19:11-21)
2). The beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20)
3). Satan is bound in the literal location of the Abyss for a thousand years
4). The thousand year reign of Christ begins
This is the order of these events in Scripture. Forgive me for saying, but just as Paul spoke about, you are blown about by every wind of doctrine. It is near impossible to present scripture to preterist and amillennialists and that because they ignore the literal meaning of scripture and allegorize and symbolize it. They have no discernment! From Rev.20:1-7 the words "thousand years" appears 6 times. Whenever you see something mentioned repetitively like this, a good rule of thumb is to believe what it is literally saying, unless there is other evidence that it is symbolic.
Another problem with their interpretations is the misapplying of unrelated of scripture. As far as I am concerned these teachings are a form of brain-washing. They have learned a pre-package interpretation for most of the end-time topics and so when those topics are brought up, they are immediately ready with that pre-packaged answer and nothing else that you say matters.
The dragon/beast represents several individual things:
1). The dragon as Satan:
"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth"
"The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."
"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."
2). The Beast as a kingdom:
" And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion."
"After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very
powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was
different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns."
"Your Majesty looked, and there before you stood a large statue—an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay.
Head of Gold = Babylon
Chest and Arms = Medo/Persia
Belly and thighs = Greece
Legs of Iron = Rome when it was in full power
Feet of partly iron and partly baked clay = A revived/extended Roman empire which is yet to come, but weaker with a mixture of people so that it doesn't have the same power.
3). The Beast as a person:
"One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against him?”
"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
"The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction." (Rev.17:11) Note: this is the future king, the head, which is a king, who receives the fatal wound in Rev.13.
"While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully"
"The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for forty-two months. And the beast opened his mouth to blaspheme against God and slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven. Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and conquer them, and he was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain."
The Seven Heads of the Beast:
"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.
"The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction."
The Ten Horns of the Beast:
"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast."
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Hello Brainfreeze,
Because the legs of pure iron represented Rome in its full strength and the ten-toed kingdom of partly iron and baked clay is a future extension of that Roman kingdom that the antichrist/beast will rule over. Those ten kings are the ten horns of the dragon. They are the ones of whom it says, they have not yet received a kingdom, but become kings after only being with the beast for an short time.
Also, according to Dan.2:31-45, the ten-toed kingdom is shown to be the last kingdom, which the Rock (Jesus Christ) falls on smashing it to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor and is blown away by the wind, never to be found again. Since the statue represents human government "Blown away and never to be found again" is depicting the end of all human government. the Rock (Jesus) that struck the statue becomes a huge mountain and fills the whole earth. The Rock filling the whole earth represents Christ's millennial kingdom. The way in which the Rock will fall on the feet of the statue will be via the events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, decimating the earth's population and dismantling all human government.
I hope that this helps give some understanding
Because the legs of pure iron represented Rome in its full strength and the ten-toed kingdom of partly iron and baked clay is a future extension of that Roman kingdom that the antichrist/beast will rule over. Those ten kings are the ten horns of the dragon. They are the ones of whom it says, they have not yet received a kingdom, but become kings after only being with the beast for an short time.
Also, according to Dan.2:31-45, the ten-toed kingdom is shown to be the last kingdom, which the Rock (Jesus Christ) falls on smashing it to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor and is blown away by the wind, never to be found again. Since the statue represents human government "Blown away and never to be found again" is depicting the end of all human government. the Rock (Jesus) that struck the statue becomes a huge mountain and fills the whole earth. The Rock filling the whole earth represents Christ's millennial kingdom. The way in which the Rock will fall on the feet of the statue will be via the events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, decimating the earth's population and dismantling all human government.
I hope that this helps give some understanding
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