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jasonj
Guest
lol not at all actually, I'm a follower of Jesus. never even been to a catholic church...not that I'm condemning catholics if they follow Christ tho, but no not at all am I catholic. Just a Christian who believes in Jesus words as the truth. and do the very best I can to obey the things he says to do. I really wouldn't know a label for myself, Just a follower of Jesus.
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jasonj
Guest
I go to a lot of different churches, wouldn't say I even have a home church I travel a lot and attend basically whatever I can find, don't pay attention to denomination. any where there is a good word , I'm blessed to be there. if I had to label myself, maybe non denominational I guess, But really I am Just a person who believes Jesus words as the truth. and the only real thing I have to say to people. is a Christian should go to Jesus words, and learn from Him, do what He says. to me, that's infallible. ive been through romans road and all that years back, found the truth in the 4 gospels, do my best to stay in those trachings, but like all of us, I slip up here n there, just trust in the forgiveness He offers, and always forgive anyone who offends me because He says to. my only doctrine that meets all the opposition on sites like this is learn and follow Jesus. Ill never change that belief, its my life.
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jasonj
Guest
I believe the parable of the unforgiving debtor, I believe BECAUSE I am forgiven, I forgive. if I am forgiven and refuse to forgive.....well check the parable. I do not believe I'm already forgiven no matter what I do, absolutely not. I believe Grace made me new, did not remove my responsibility to obey the Lord. If I am forgiven, and refuse to follow after righteousness ( the teachings of Jesus) I have only refused Graces offer. I'm not a once saved always saved guy, no matter what at all that's not the gospel. I believe when a person receives Jesus, we are yoked to Him in every way, including obedience to His commands. I believe this because He teaches it. to receive the offer of salvation doesn't remove Gods Holiness, holiness is now my goal. the issue with all of the arguments ive seen here ( and I haven't read even half the comments, may explain if I didn't respond) My issue is very simple, please accept this : any gospel that has to omit Jesus words to validate itself is false. if we find a scripture in romans, we don't omit or change Jesus words to meet pauls explaination of something. Jesus words are the gospel. that's why they are known as the 4 gospels lol. there is no gospel without Jesus Christ and all of His words. He is the one who demands obedience. look into it. saying Hes Lord wont save a soul, making Him Lord will. we serve the Lord, that's what Lord means, master, king.....Gods son. the one with all authority, the one who gave the commission AFTER the resurrection " go and make disciples of all nations TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU"
the words of Jesus are the gospel. so what does Jesus say about our behavior ? does he ever say our behavior will determine our eternal destination? yeah, repeatedly, every time he talks of Judgement day, he says it. we are saved and changed by Grace. if we walk in the thoings of Jesus, which is faith. Faith is not knowing somethings true, its Believing something enough to actually do it. that's trust you see? if I trust Jesus ill step onto the water, if I don't have faith, I wont step. faith without action is dead. james words not mine. but I know that's probably unacceptable an obscure out of contect maybe.....
consider Abraham. He believed God, God credits Him with righteousness. okay......Abraham is tested, God says go sacrifice Isaac.......let me ask you this one thing now......... if Abraham had believed God, but refused to obey what God said, would Abraham then remain righteous in His disobedience? Faith is ever tested, its not faith if it will not do. faith is belief that equals action or it is not what we think. you have faith in your brakes on your car, but you puc=sh them when you want to stop. you have faith that if you go to work, youll get paid, but you actually get up and go, if you didn't show up, you may not get paid.
I don't work for salvation, I'm willing to learn and follow Jesus because He saved me. and in His words, salvation is not guaranteed from calling him Lord. if were saved, were His.
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jasonj
Guest
I could not agree with your entire comment more peter, thank you for sharing that. I can relate to your statement in every way brother, God bless and keep you as you follow the truth, and that is exactly whats going on, never ever waiver and the Lord will do amazing things. your commitment will NOT go unrewarded, amny times over amen to this you really timed this well, a joy to my heart. I will be praying bro, and please do the same if at all possible
C
coby2
Guest
If you're lead by the Spirit you will forgive because He forgave you, but if you live in the flesh you still need to hear: forgive otherwise He won't forgive you.
Steve Hill from Brownsville spoke to backsliders but the christians that were lead by the Spirit felt condemned, so for them they had another Steve Hill with grace teaching.
It's interesting when we actually look at what Jesus said in Matthew 28:20. The word here is actually "observe" which is a completely different word in Greek then for "obey".
Thayer's Greek Lexicon says that the word used here means A) to guard B) metaphorically, to keep C) to observe D) to reserve.
This means to guard what Christ has said to us. We need to always interpret all scripture with who is being spoken to in order to keep things in context because Jesus also said to cut your hands off and pluck out your eyes.
Matthew 28:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus was the greatest preacher of the law and the greatest preacher of grace.
For those people that are relying on what "they" do to establish their own righteousness - He gave them Moses 2.0
He elevated the law to a place where no one could do it. Like cut your hand off and pluck out your eye. Be perfect like the Father. If you even call someone a fool you have murdered them. If you lust in your heart you have committed adultery. Good luck with "obeying" these commands. Their whole purpose was to reveal our need for a Savior.
One of the purposes of the law was to increase sin ( Rom. 5:20 ) in us so that we will know we need a Savior. The law's purpose too lead us to Christ as Paul says in Galatians.
To those people who know they cannot "do" anything to create their own righteousness and needed a Savior - Jesus preached grace them to them. This is why crack addicts and prostitutes , thieves, etc understand grace and the self-righteous religious have a hard time with it. Especially "acceptance grace"
Jesus spoke wonderful words of life to all groups of people.
Jesus is brilliant at giving people exactly what they need. Consider the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11–32).
Some people love this story, others hate it. I’ve had people tell me, “I feel bad for the older brother. He worked so hard.” They say this because they are working hard. They are good and decent and can’t understand why Jesus would throw a party for prodigals and not for them. It troubles them that we are inside whooping it up while they’re outside working on their résumés.
The story is real. Every one of us is in it and everyone is invited to the party. Grace is for all. But you’re going to have trouble receiving it if you think of your heavenly Father as an employer. And that’s the whole point. You’re going to have to change your mind about God or you will never enjoy his love.
Words mean different things to different people. If you identify with the tax collector or the prodigal, the words of Jesus are packed with radical grace. You’ll read them with praise and thanksgiving and whoops of joy.
But if you identify with the Pharisee or the older brother, his words are extremely unsettling. They are serious words, not fun at all. Don't take someone else's medicine.
Yet if you allow them, the words of Jesus will change you. They will strip you of your religion and reveal your need for grace.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon says that the word used here means A) to guard B) metaphorically, to keep C) to observe D) to reserve.
This means to guard what Christ has said to us. We need to always interpret all scripture with who is being spoken to in order to keep things in context because Jesus also said to cut your hands off and pluck out your eyes.
Matthew 28:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus was the greatest preacher of the law and the greatest preacher of grace.
For those people that are relying on what "they" do to establish their own righteousness - He gave them Moses 2.0
He elevated the law to a place where no one could do it. Like cut your hand off and pluck out your eye. Be perfect like the Father. If you even call someone a fool you have murdered them. If you lust in your heart you have committed adultery. Good luck with "obeying" these commands. Their whole purpose was to reveal our need for a Savior.
One of the purposes of the law was to increase sin ( Rom. 5:20 ) in us so that we will know we need a Savior. The law's purpose too lead us to Christ as Paul says in Galatians.
To those people who know they cannot "do" anything to create their own righteousness and needed a Savior - Jesus preached grace them to them. This is why crack addicts and prostitutes , thieves, etc understand grace and the self-righteous religious have a hard time with it. Especially "acceptance grace"
Jesus spoke wonderful words of life to all groups of people.
Jesus is brilliant at giving people exactly what they need. Consider the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11–32).
Some people love this story, others hate it. I’ve had people tell me, “I feel bad for the older brother. He worked so hard.” They say this because they are working hard. They are good and decent and can’t understand why Jesus would throw a party for prodigals and not for them. It troubles them that we are inside whooping it up while they’re outside working on their résumés.
The story is real. Every one of us is in it and everyone is invited to the party. Grace is for all. But you’re going to have trouble receiving it if you think of your heavenly Father as an employer. And that’s the whole point. You’re going to have to change your mind about God or you will never enjoy his love.
Words mean different things to different people. If you identify with the tax collector or the prodigal, the words of Jesus are packed with radical grace. You’ll read them with praise and thanksgiving and whoops of joy.
But if you identify with the Pharisee or the older brother, his words are extremely unsettling. They are serious words, not fun at all. Don't take someone else's medicine.
Yet if you allow them, the words of Jesus will change you. They will strip you of your religion and reveal your need for grace.
I liked Steve Hill but if Steve Hill said that Donald Duck and Daffy Duck were the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation. I would ask him for the scripture.
Him saying that Christians do not have the forgiveness of sins is NOT the gospel. He is a Pentecostal preacher and that are some of their beliefs. It is a part of their doctrine so he was just saying his church doctrine to the people.
For him to say that if someone doesn't forgive , God will not forgive them is NOT the gospel. How many people coming to Christ have forgiven people before they got born-again and received the forgiveness of sins because Christ took away all sin?
( all off them came to Christ without the "necessity" to have already forgiven others before they believed and received forgiveness of all sins from Christ's perfect work )
This "if you do not forgive - God will not forgive you " is NOT the gospel of the grace of Christ as clearly seen in the scriptures by Paul and John on forgiveness that is "IN" Christ now. Steve Hill's Pentecostal background and belief in this area conflict with the clear message of the gospel. Steve is with our Lord now so I'm sure all this erroneous belief is gone as sure as all our beliefs not based on the pure clear message of the grace of Christ for salvation only will be gone when we are with the Lord.
We forgive now from our hearts because we are forgiven now. Preach this and people will grow in who they are in Christ and eventually their minds will be renewed to who they are in Christ and their emotions will fall in line.
In saying that, God does bring us to repentance ( which is changing our mind ) to trust in what Christ has done and to stop living from the flesh to depend on the spirit inside of us for our life and to follow Christ alone. None of this means that the forgiveness of sins that is in Christ is negated. They are simply not living from the truth of the finished work of Christ.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Yes, we do. But you want us to not follow Christ, the Living Word, instead you want us to follow the words of Christ written in a book.
The Greatest Law Preacher
Don’t stray too far from the red letters,” is a piece of advice often given to new preachers. It means, stay close to the teachings of Jesus and you can’t go wrong. It sounds good, but it’s actually bad advice.
Everything Jesus said was good and wonderful, but not everything He said was meant for you.
Read the red letters of your Bible and you will find both stories of unprecedented grace and merciless declarations of law. Mix these messages and you will end up confused and double-minded. The solution is not to balance law and grace – you can’t – but to filter everything you read through the finished work of the cross. To make sense of what Jesus said, you need to understand what Jesus did and why.
Jesus lived under law
Jesus lived at the crossroads of two covenants. As humanity’s representative He came to fulfill the old law-keeping covenant in order that we might relate to God through a new and better covenant forged in His blood. Since the new covenant could not begin before He died, Jesus lived all of His pre-cross life under the old covenant of the law:
But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. (Gal 4:4-5)
Jesus was born under law, circumcised by law, and presented in the temple according to the law. Every Jewish person that Jesus met was also born under law. We need to keep this in mind when we read the red letters of Jesus.
What law did Jesus preach?
To those under the law, Jesus preached the pure and unadulterated Law of Moses. When religious people came to trap him with theological puzzles, Jesus would respond with, “What did Moses command you?” (Mk 10:3). If someone asked, “What is the greatest commandment in the law,” Jesus would provide an answer from the law (Mt 22:36). In His law-keeping ministry, Jesus honored the Law of Moses:
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. (Mt 23:2-3)
Since the law-teachers often made Jesus angry, we might conclude that Jesus was opposed to the law. He was not. Jesus had no problem with what the Pharisees were preaching. “Do everything they tell you.” What really burnt His toast was their hypocrisy – they weren’t practicing what they preached:
Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. (Joh 7:19)
Why did Jesus preach the law?
Like every grace preacher, Jesus esteemed the law and the purpose for which it was given. The law was given to silence every mouth and hold the whole world accountable (Rms 3:19). The purpose of the law is to make us conscious of sin and reveal our need for a Savior.
Since Sinai, the Jews had had fourteen centuries to learn what the law would teach them – that the flesh is incapable of dealing with sin. However, the law-teachers and Pharisees had ring-fenced the Law of Moses with their traditions and interpretations.
By honoring their traditions ahead of the law, they diluted the law and removed the key to knowledge. As a result, the menace of sin was not fully recognized and the self-righteous weren’t silenced.
If the law had been allowed to do its proper work, the Jews would have been primed and ready for a Savior. Every one of them would have had an experience like the one Paul describes in Romans 7. “Nothing good lives in me. Oh wretched man that I am!”
Live under the condemning ministry of the law and you will inevitably come to this question: “Who will deliver me from this body of death?” If the law-teachers and prophets had done their job, then the entire nation of Israel would have gathered outside that stable in Bethlehem in eager expectation. “He’s here! The Savior has come!” they would have said. “The One who will deliver us from the curse of the law and reconcile us to God has been born. Glory to God in the highest!”
Sadly, it didn’t happen. Since the law-teachers had been negligent, Jesus had to do their job before He could do His own. Before He could save the world from sin, He had to preach the law that made sin utterly sinful. Before He give Himself as the answer, He had to make sure we were asking the right question. Who will deliver us?
So Jesus became the greatest law preacher of all time. As the prophet Isaiah had foretold, He made the law magnificent. He lifted up what others had knocked down and raised the standard to glorious levels of perfection.
Never again would mankind be without excuse. You want to know what God expects? Just read the Sermon on the Mount. In it Jesus says that God demands perfection and nothing less.
How did Jesus preach the law?
Preaching the red letters of Jesus is a bit like drinking whatever you find in the laundry. If you’re not paying attention – if you fail to distinguish His life-giving words of grace from His death-dealing words of law – then you could really do some damage. Don’t believe me? Then consider these red letters:
If you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14-15)
This is one of the most-quoted passages in the Bible and it is vintage law. It is a killer scripture. It is not good news. This verse should make us shudder for it says that our forgiveness hinges on our ability to forgive others and we are poor forgivers indeed. Men sin against us repeatedly. Have we honestly forgiven them all?
What if we miss one? And what do we say to those who have been raped and abused? What do you say to a young child who has been molested? “Sweetie, you need to forgive that evil man otherwise God won’t forgive you.” That’s not grace. That’s the condemning ministry of the law in full bloom.
How do you forgive the unforgiveable? You can’t! Then you’re in trouble. The law condemns you as an unforgiver. Now you’re beginning to recognize your need for grace and this is a good thing.
Any time you read a conditional statement from Jesus, you should interpret it as law. “Do not judge and you will not be judged” (Lk 6:37). That’s good advice but it’s also law. To avoid something (judgment) you have to do something (don’t judge). It’s a blessing you have to pay for.
And anytime Jesus makes a threat, you should interpret that as law as well. “Anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment” (Mt 5:22). That’s bad news for anyone with a brother!
The law is not for you
Jesus came to reveal grace but those who are confident of their own righteousness are incapable of receiving it. They don’t see their need. What they need is the law and Jesus gave it to them in spades.
But Jesus’ larger purpose was to give us His life and His righteousness. So He also told stories about God justifying sinners and shepherds finding lost sheep. Then He went to the cross fulfilling the law on our behalf that He might be the end of the law for all who believe (Rom 10:4).
Jesus’ came to set the captives free and give sight to the blind. The law sets nobody free. But the law does reveal your need for a Great Deliverer.
I like to use this website as it has a place where people can ask questions at the bottom of the article and sometimes I learn a lot from those.
https://escapetoreality.org/2012/01/14/the-greatest-law-preacher/
Don’t stray too far from the red letters,” is a piece of advice often given to new preachers. It means, stay close to the teachings of Jesus and you can’t go wrong. It sounds good, but it’s actually bad advice.
Everything Jesus said was good and wonderful, but not everything He said was meant for you.
Read the red letters of your Bible and you will find both stories of unprecedented grace and merciless declarations of law. Mix these messages and you will end up confused and double-minded. The solution is not to balance law and grace – you can’t – but to filter everything you read through the finished work of the cross. To make sense of what Jesus said, you need to understand what Jesus did and why.
Jesus lived under law
Jesus lived at the crossroads of two covenants. As humanity’s representative He came to fulfill the old law-keeping covenant in order that we might relate to God through a new and better covenant forged in His blood. Since the new covenant could not begin before He died, Jesus lived all of His pre-cross life under the old covenant of the law:
But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. (Gal 4:4-5)
Jesus was born under law, circumcised by law, and presented in the temple according to the law. Every Jewish person that Jesus met was also born under law. We need to keep this in mind when we read the red letters of Jesus.
What law did Jesus preach?
To those under the law, Jesus preached the pure and unadulterated Law of Moses. When religious people came to trap him with theological puzzles, Jesus would respond with, “What did Moses command you?” (Mk 10:3). If someone asked, “What is the greatest commandment in the law,” Jesus would provide an answer from the law (Mt 22:36). In His law-keeping ministry, Jesus honored the Law of Moses:
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. (Mt 23:2-3)
Since the law-teachers often made Jesus angry, we might conclude that Jesus was opposed to the law. He was not. Jesus had no problem with what the Pharisees were preaching. “Do everything they tell you.” What really burnt His toast was their hypocrisy – they weren’t practicing what they preached:
Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. (Joh 7:19)
Why did Jesus preach the law?
Like every grace preacher, Jesus esteemed the law and the purpose for which it was given. The law was given to silence every mouth and hold the whole world accountable (Rms 3:19). The purpose of the law is to make us conscious of sin and reveal our need for a Savior.
Since Sinai, the Jews had had fourteen centuries to learn what the law would teach them – that the flesh is incapable of dealing with sin. However, the law-teachers and Pharisees had ring-fenced the Law of Moses with their traditions and interpretations.
By honoring their traditions ahead of the law, they diluted the law and removed the key to knowledge. As a result, the menace of sin was not fully recognized and the self-righteous weren’t silenced.
If the law had been allowed to do its proper work, the Jews would have been primed and ready for a Savior. Every one of them would have had an experience like the one Paul describes in Romans 7. “Nothing good lives in me. Oh wretched man that I am!”
Live under the condemning ministry of the law and you will inevitably come to this question: “Who will deliver me from this body of death?” If the law-teachers and prophets had done their job, then the entire nation of Israel would have gathered outside that stable in Bethlehem in eager expectation. “He’s here! The Savior has come!” they would have said. “The One who will deliver us from the curse of the law and reconcile us to God has been born. Glory to God in the highest!”
Sadly, it didn’t happen. Since the law-teachers had been negligent, Jesus had to do their job before He could do His own. Before He could save the world from sin, He had to preach the law that made sin utterly sinful. Before He give Himself as the answer, He had to make sure we were asking the right question. Who will deliver us?
So Jesus became the greatest law preacher of all time. As the prophet Isaiah had foretold, He made the law magnificent. He lifted up what others had knocked down and raised the standard to glorious levels of perfection.
Never again would mankind be without excuse. You want to know what God expects? Just read the Sermon on the Mount. In it Jesus says that God demands perfection and nothing less.
How did Jesus preach the law?
Preaching the red letters of Jesus is a bit like drinking whatever you find in the laundry. If you’re not paying attention – if you fail to distinguish His life-giving words of grace from His death-dealing words of law – then you could really do some damage. Don’t believe me? Then consider these red letters:
If you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14-15)
This is one of the most-quoted passages in the Bible and it is vintage law. It is a killer scripture. It is not good news. This verse should make us shudder for it says that our forgiveness hinges on our ability to forgive others and we are poor forgivers indeed. Men sin against us repeatedly. Have we honestly forgiven them all?
What if we miss one? And what do we say to those who have been raped and abused? What do you say to a young child who has been molested? “Sweetie, you need to forgive that evil man otherwise God won’t forgive you.” That’s not grace. That’s the condemning ministry of the law in full bloom.
How do you forgive the unforgiveable? You can’t! Then you’re in trouble. The law condemns you as an unforgiver. Now you’re beginning to recognize your need for grace and this is a good thing.
Any time you read a conditional statement from Jesus, you should interpret it as law. “Do not judge and you will not be judged” (Lk 6:37). That’s good advice but it’s also law. To avoid something (judgment) you have to do something (don’t judge). It’s a blessing you have to pay for.
And anytime Jesus makes a threat, you should interpret that as law as well. “Anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment” (Mt 5:22). That’s bad news for anyone with a brother!
The law is not for you
Jesus came to reveal grace but those who are confident of their own righteousness are incapable of receiving it. They don’t see their need. What they need is the law and Jesus gave it to them in spades.
But Jesus’ larger purpose was to give us His life and His righteousness. So He also told stories about God justifying sinners and shepherds finding lost sheep. Then He went to the cross fulfilling the law on our behalf that He might be the end of the law for all who believe (Rom 10:4).
Jesus’ came to set the captives free and give sight to the blind. The law sets nobody free. But the law does reveal your need for a Great Deliverer.
I like to use this website as it has a place where people can ask questions at the bottom of the article and sometimes I learn a lot from those.
https://escapetoreality.org/2012/01/14/the-greatest-law-preacher/
In a different post he mentioned "believe, repent, confess and get baptized" in order to become saved. That is the typical 4 step plan of salvation taught in the church of Christ. Was just wondering.
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
The difference between followers of Christ and followers of the gnostic tradition: the former conform their faith and walk to Jesus' words and spirit; the latter conform Jesus' words to their faith and walk and spirit.
Watch yourselves that you do not lose what we have worked for, but receive a full reward. Everyone who goes too far and does not remain in the teaching of Christ does not have God. The one who remains in the teaching—this person has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:8-9
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Jesus taught that HE is the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. I follow HIM.
If we were to "obey" Jesus' words then we would have repentance first ( which means in Greek to change the mind - which in this context means to rely on what God has done and not ourselves ) - then we believe and receive Christ, are sealed with the Holy Spirit when He baptizes us into the body of Christ. Then we get water baptized to show as a symbol what happened to us when we believed in Christ.
Mark 1:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Here is something that all Christians should be in agreement with because of the finished work of Christ..
[video=youtube;mTwA3NLEjY4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTwA3NLEjY4[/video]
[video=youtube;mTwA3NLEjY4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTwA3NLEjY4[/video]