Grace through faith AND the law dont mix?

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Scriptureplz said:
Did you read the scripture about the law being a tutor to unbelievers, but after believing, they are no longer under the law? Maybe it would be a good idea to stop and actually read the scripture references.
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which are you referring to? there are so many scriptures that people use to say the law is null and void, also many say we are still to follow the law. like i said, when there are conflicts on this, why do people not just go back to what Jesus taught on the law.
 
jaybird88 said:
Matthew 5:18-19
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus sounds pretty convincing on the law. when i have doubts i go back to Jesus and what He taught.
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When we look at the verse before that says that Jesus fulfilled the law - we can see more clearly what He meant IMO about those that relax the law as you put it. No one is saying that "now murder is good"..etc.

Matthew 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Because we are in Christ now - He has fulfilled the law for us and now His life in us will not lead us to murder..etc. We have His love in us which is why love is the fulfillment of the Law.

We don't need to keep the law in order to be saved. Jesus did that for us by His grace through faith alone. We live now from His life inside of us - not by keeping rules.
 
jaybird88 said:
Matthew 5:18-19
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus sounds pretty convincing on the law. when i have doubts i go back to Jesus and what He taught.
Click to expand...

If JESUS had not have accomplished the law,would the law have ever been accomplished?

Give GOD all the credit.

Grace.

It shouldn't be I get Grace because I'm trying to keep law.
 
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Scriptureplz said:
No need to be snobbish, you have misunderstood. These commands are not to be saved, but are given to those who are ALREADY saved! You cannot PRODUCE a fruit of the Spirit, you can only bear fruit of the Spirit. The only way to do that is by having the Spirit indwelling you.

John 15:1-8
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"Snobbish?" Would you care to explain what you mean?
 
jaybird88 said:
Matthew 5:18-19
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus sounds pretty convincing on the law. when i have doubts i go back to Jesus and what He taught.
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whats amazing, is both will be in the kingdom of heaven.

As apposed to those in hell. Which wish they were in the kingdom of heaven..
 
seed_time_harvest said:
I wouldn't be surprised If they were to begin to think of "If you love me then keep my commandments"

The question I would want to ask before discussing this Is,Is this talking about keeping his commandments under law or Is this talking about keeping his commandments under grace?
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there is a difference

1 requires perfection

1 requires Gods loving mercy for times when we fail.

 
jaybird88 said:
Matthew 5:18-19
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus sounds pretty convincing on the law. when i have doubts i go back to Jesus and what He taught.
Click to expand...

Tell me, who is it that relaxes the commandments and teaches others to do the same? Who do we see doing that? I'll answer for you. It's those who slice and dice the Law, reducing it to something they feel is “doable” by themselves. They cheapen Gods Law, robbing it of its power.

It’s certainly not those who are under grace and understand what that means who are doing that. Quite the contrary. We do not teach cheap Law that reduces Gods demands to make it doable. We are doing exactly what Jesus said those who will be called great in the Kingdom would do.
 
Grace777x70 said:
Amen...great question!..and the other question is ..."Just what are the commandments of Jesus?"

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Here are these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"

..in their mind this verse is saying.."Keep My commandment and this will prove you love Me." Conditional


New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"

..it stems out of relationship , it is the very life of Christ flowing out of us because of our new creation in Him.

It is not conditional but descriptive of the believer's true nature because they are in Christ.
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Amen!

I believe a Christian can live just like a lost person to the point that you can't tell them apart. God does not make a believer "abide" in Him. This is about our service (discipleship). IF we choose to abide in Him after we are saved, we will bear the fruits of the Spirit. If not we won't. There are all different levels of this. But the abiding is not what saves us or keeps us saved. The fruits of the Spirit are.....

love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: (Galatians 5)

The only way a Christian can bear the fruits of the Spirit is by abiding in Christ (John 15:1-8).

I believe abiding means to meditate on Him and His Words to us. To continue or remain in the knowledge of His grace, and embrace His truth daily. Without this we cannot be "sanctified by the Word", and will not be renewed in our thinking. These things are not automatic when we are saved, it takes cooperation on our part. No cooperation, no fruit.
 
jaybird88 said:
which are you referring to? there are so many scriptures that people use to say the law is null and void, also many say we are still to follow the law. like i said, when there are conflicts on this, why do people not just go back to what Jesus taught on the law.
Click to expand...

Then do it.

Jesus taught no one is good but God. (only he kept the law)

Jesus said all the law and prophets are found in two commands.

So why do you want to go to the rest, which could never save you to begin with?
 
seed_time_harvest said:
If JESUS had not have accomplished the law,would the law have ever been accomplished?

Give GOD all the credit.

Grace.

It shouldn't be I get Grace because I'm trying to keep law.
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I like this, I think we need to put it in words and in a place we can see it every day. a bullboard woud be good, for all to see

Where would we be if Jesus did not fulfill the law. Condemned. no hope. lost, dead.
 
The apostle John tells us exactly what God's commandments are for us in relation to salvation.

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24[/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

We can only love because He first loved us. Love is not a product of the flesh. We can not generate love from ourselves. Love is a fruit of the Spirit.
 
jaybird88 said:
which are you referring to? there are so many scriptures that people use to say the law is null and void, also many say we are still to follow the law. like i said, when there are conflicts on this, why do people not just go back to what Jesus taught on the law.
Click to expand...

Look at the second comment in the thread. I gave 37 verses that show we (as Christians) are not under the law.
 
Romans 7:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Galatians 3:24-25

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


What happens when people try to mix Grace through faith and law?

Galatians 3:2-3

[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 9:31-32

[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


I suppose if clear scripture has not convinced you then no one will.
 
Scriptureplz said:
Look at the second comment in the thread. I gave 37 verses that show we (as Christians) are not under the law.
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im sure if one looked hard enough they could just as easy find 37 more saying the law is not null and void.
Jesus says quite plainly He didnt come to destroy the law. how much plainer can it get than that?
Jesus fulfilled prophesy.
 
jaybird88 said:
im sure if one looked hard enough they could just as easy find 37 more saying the law is not null and void.
Jesus says quite plainly He didnt come to destroy the law. how much plainer can it get than that?
Jesus fulfilled prophesy.
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Yes he did, SO why are you trying to do what even the jew could not do?
 
Scriptureplz said:
Amen!

I believe a Christian can live just like a lost person to the point that you can't tell them apart. God does not make a believer "abide" in Him. This is about our service (discipleship). IF we choose to abide in Him after we are saved, we will bear the fruits of the Spirit. If not we won't. There are all different levels of this. But the abiding is not what saves us or keeps us saved. The fruits of the Spirit are.....

love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: (Galatians 5)

The only way a Christian can bear the fruits of the Spirit is by abiding in Christ (John 15:1-8).

I believe abiding means to meditate on Him and His Words to us. To continue or remain in the knowledge of His grace, and embrace His truth daily. Without this we cannot be "sanctified by the Word", and will not be renewed in our thinking. These things are not automatic when we are saved, it takes cooperation on our part. No cooperation, no fruit.
Click to expand...

Yes..I can see what you are saying and I agree it is definitely good to grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ. We do need that in order to be "set apart" from the craziness in this world and we do need our outward behavior to reflect what has already happened to us in our new creation - the inner man created in Christ in righteousness and holiness.

To me "abiding " is descriptive of one that is in Christ. We are in Christ but as you say we do need to be renewed in our mind to who we are in Christ now and to what He did for us. It's the old "behold Christ as in a mirror - we see ourselves and the Holy Spirit changes us " 2 Cor. 3:17-18

I wrote about this abiding in another place...let me see if I can find it.

 
jaybird88 said:
Matthew 5:18-19
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus sounds pretty convincing on the law. when i have doubts i go back to Jesus and what He taught.
Click to expand...

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The Lord Jesus is very "convincing" on the law. But you aren't understanding what He is saying.

Romans 9:31-21
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


So if we can't attain righteousness, or perfection, by our works at the law, how then???

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Ephesians 2:8-9

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Then do it.

Jesus taught no one is good but God. (only he kept the law)

Jesus said all the law and prophets are found in two commands.

So why do you want to go to the rest, which could never save you to begin with?
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Amen..

And even we cannot keep those 2 commandments to love God and to love others. Only God can do these 2 things. They are the greatest commandments "in the law". Jesus fulfilled these 2 commandments for us too. We are in Him and as we grow in His grace and knowledge - His life in us will reflect out to love God and others.

The Christian life is all about Christ living in and through us in an exchanged life.
 
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