Grace through faith AND the law dont mix?

[eternally-gratefull]

And he did the will of GOD. His obedience saved him.

I am going to save this quote so next time HRFTD says he does not teach a works based gospel. It can be showed by his own words how he is not being truthful

post number 98 in the grace through faith and law don't mix thread..

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...through-faith-law-dont-mix-5.html#post2615253

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

And he did the will of GOD. His obedience saved him.

His faith in the words of God caused him to take action didn't it?

 

[Grace777x70]

here is what I see on those verses.

Because of Grace I was saved,

Because I am saved, I can now be obedient.

So because of grace comes obedience yes, But if salvation is not a fact. then grace will not bring obedience, There can be no obedience apart from being born again, and given the spirit of God. All the grace in the world will not bring on pure obedient act. ie, faith and repentance ust come first before one act of obedience is even possible.

There is grace for salvation and there is grace for service as in Eph. 3:7 and Romans 1:5. These are for two different purposes.

Romans 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,

Ephesians 3:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

His faith in the words of God caused him to take action didn't it?

Yet he was saved (accounted as rightious) before he did one deed, wasn't he?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

His faith in the words of God caused him to take action didn't it?

His action proved his faith. GOD was well pleased.

 

[Grace777x70]

Faith comes first, but an obedient faith will produce good works=good fruit. Remember these, we are saved by grace through faith, and also grace reigns through righteousness, and a proof of this conversion is that sin will have no rule over your life if you are truly under grace.

Here's an old post I wrote which explains how Grace, faith, and even righteousness is imputed to us as a gift, but the proof of this being active in a person who claims to be in Christ will be in the fruits they produce.

The grace and the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ is a gift as is shown here….

Romans 5:17 “For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)”

Romans 5:21 “That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Galatians 2:21 “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

But if we are to reign with Christ by the grace of God, and to also abide in His righteousness, do we then walk in unrighteousness? For all unrighteousness is sin. (1 John 5:17)

Romans 6:13 “Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
2 Corinthians 5:21 “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Again if we are truly made a new man in Christ, and Christ is truly in us, do we continue to walk in unrighteousness?

1 Peter 2:24 “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”

So truly you will know who is, or who is not, in Christ by their fruits.( Matthew 7:20)

1 John 2:29 “If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:10 “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

1 John 2:6 “He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

And yet..it is impossible for one born of God to sin....sin does not touch the inner man created in Christ...this is what spiritual circumcision does when God cut away our flesh from our inner man of the heart.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. ( The sealing of the Holy Spirit keeps us from the evil going into our inner man in Christ )

The one born of God cannot sin - not once ever ...because that one's inner man of the heart is in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I don't understand the distinction.

Is there a distinction?

The distinction is shown like when Jesus said.....

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

 

[ladylynn]

Amen..I agree.

Then the question comes up. How are we to live if it's not by rules and the keeping of laws?

Can we really trust the Holy Spirit inside us to lead us in this life? Can we really trust that when we were raised with Christ to newness of life, we will be able to trust His life in us?

Can we really trust in the love that the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts when we believed - that this love and allowing His love to flow through and in us - will this be enough?

These are questions we need to ask ourselves and to the Lord. Do we really trust in what You have done for us and now we can live by grace through faith in all that You have done.

Colossians 2:6-7 (NASB)

[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Himand established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

Not only "can we" but we MUST. We must actually and really trust that the Holy Spirit will lead us to be (able) to trust His life IN us.

It was God that caused us to be firmly rooted IN His Son from the very beginning and there after. Phil.2:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is [not your strength, but it is] [SUP][a][/SUP]God who is effectively at work in you, both to will and to work [that is, strengthening, energizing, and creating in you the longing and the ability to fulfill your purpose] for His good pleasure.

If a believer thinks it is his or her own steadfastness., holiness and even determined will that causes them to walk in newness of life, it's walking on poorly constructed foundations made by hands. And have yet to encountered the God of grace in the Bible. Actually., when we are leaning on our own understanding and determinations.., we are walking in our flesh and will soon find out how truly wobbly those foundations are.

This is also why not many believers have been or are joyful and walking in the freedom Christ paid for us to have. It means looking to self instead of Jesus Who IS the Author AND Finisher of our faith.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And yet..it is impossible for one born of God to sin....sin does not touch the inner man created in Christ...this is what spiritual circumcision does when God cut away our flesh from our inner man of the heart[/B].

The whole man becomes defiled when he sins. The gnostic heretics thought that their behavior could never defile their spirit.

Irenaeus, Against Heresies

2. ... But as to themselves, [the gnostic heretics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [i.e., conduct] in which they may be involved.​

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

And yet..it is impossible for one born of God to sin....sin does not touch the inner man created in Christ...

I wouldn't say it is "impossible" because that is like saying no one could ever turn back and fall away from the faith. There is also an "if" one sins....

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

And that last part of your statement in blue sounds like that gnostic stuff HRFTD is talking about.

 

[ladylynn]

How? How does faith establish the law when working at the law does not cause righteousness?

Because it is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ that causes fruit to grow. And it is this fruit that establishes and fulfills the law.

Not by our work. By Gods work in us.

That is why we are given rest from our own works. That is why we aren't under the law anymore. Because it is the work of God that establishes and fulfills the law.

That is why it says in Proverbs not to lean on your own understanding. Because your own understanding will cause you to work at the law in being righteous in some way. And that's not the way its "attained". Its given as a gift.

​AMEN AND AMEN!!!

 

[Grace777x70]

I wouldn't say it is "impossible" because that is like saying no one could ever turn back and fall away from the faith. There is also an "if" one sins....

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

And that last part of your statement in blue sounds like that gnostic stuff HRFTD is talking about.

Do you not believe that John wrote the truth? Are they not the words of God too? Just because one doesn't understand it - doesn't mean it's not true....

If we are one with Christ and He dwells in us...can sin get to Him...can sin affect Him because we are one?..Think this out...ponder on it for awhile.

If sin could get into our inner man where Christ dwells by the Holy Spirit - what does Christ do when sin comes? How does sin affect His righteousness which is in us because He is in us?

Does Christ become defiled?...as is suggested by those that say the whole man is defiled when sin comes.

We cannot comprehend the things of the spirit with our natural minds. Meditate on these truths and it'll bless you.

Again here is what the scripture says on the subject of the one born of God cannot sin. Not one time let alone a lifetime.

Look and ponder on the blue below in the scripture.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

( The sealing of the Holy Spirit keeps us the evil from going into our inner man in Christ )

The one born of God cannot sin - not once ever ...because that one's inner man of the heart is in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

 

[AllenW]

Let me get right to the point.
Are tithes, offerings, sacrifices, and first fruits Christian?
Or are they the law?

Do they mix or not?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you not believe that John wrote the truth? Are they not the words of God too? Just because one doesn't understand it - doesn't mean it's not true....

If we are one with Christ and He dwells in us...can sin get to Him...can sin affect Him because we are one?..Think this out...ponder on it for awhile.

If sin could get into our inner man where Christ dwells by the Holy Spirit - what does Christ do when sin comes? How does sin affect His righteousness which is in us because He is in us?

Does Christ become defiled?...as is suggested by those that say the whole man is defiled when sin comes.

We cannot comprehend the things of the spirit with our natural minds. Meditate on these truths and it'll bless you.

Again here is what the scripture says on the subject of the one born of God cannot sin. Not one time let alone a lifetime.[/B]

Look and ponder on the blue below in the scripture[/B].

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[/B][SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever [/B]is [/B]born of God doth not commit sin;[/B] for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

[/B]1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[/B][SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins[/B]; but He who was born of God keeps him[/B], and the evil one does not touch him[/B].

( The sealing of the Holy Spirit keeps us the evil from going into our inner man in Christ[/B] )

The one born of God cannot sin - not once ever ...because that one's inner man of the heart is in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.[/B]

Wow your beliefs are so gnostic.

Irenaeus, Against Heresies

... to [the gnostic heretics] who are called "the spiritual and perfect" [by themselves] such a course of [good] conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [heaven], but [it is] the seed sent forth thence [from heaven] in a feeble, immature state, and here [on earth] brought to perfection. ​

 

[FreeNChrist]

The whole man becomes defiled when he sins. The gnostic heretics thought that their behavior could never defile their spirit.

Irenaeus, Against Heresies

2. ... But as to themselves, [the gnostic heretics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [i.e., conduct] in which they may be involved.​

LOL. He's hoping to snag some newbies with his one trick pony show...hehehe...

 

[Grace777x70]

That is a great confirmation about what Christ has done for us! Thank you Lord!

I encourage people to ask the Father for the Holy Spirit to reveal that He cut away from the body of flesh from our new man in Christ in the circumcision of Christ. It'll bless you.

Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL. He's hoping to snag some newbies with his one trick pony show...hehehe...

Well it all fairness - understanding how our inner man is created in righteousness and holiness does throw some people off because believers can and do sin when we give in to the flesh. These are deeds done in the body as Romans 8 tells us.


( of course this has nothing to do with Gnosticism - that's a smoke screen...which we all know....)..this understanding of the inner man in Christ is all foolishness to the natural mind.

The understanding of what Christ has done in our new creation in Christ will set us free to walk out that life that is in us to bear good works.

 

[mailmandan]

No, His faith saved him, His obedience was made possible because he had faith.

Abraham believed God and it was accredited to him righteousness, Before he did one work.

Wow, you just literally said Abraham earned his salvation by works..

Amen! In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac in Genesis 22 resulted in God's accounting Abraham's faith as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.

The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was "justified by works" - shown to be righteous. James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

 

[Zmouth]

Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!

Here is one that I am.

Malachi 2:6

King James Version of Malachi 2:6

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Do you not believe that John wrote the truth? Are they not the words of God too? Just because one doesn't understand it - doesn't mean it's not true....

If we are one with Christ and He dwells in us...can sin get to Him...can sin affect Him because we are one?..Think this out...ponder on it for awhile.

If sin could get into our inner man where Christ dwells by the Holy Spirit - what does Christ do when sin comes? How does sin affect His righteousness which is in us because He is in us?

Does Christ become defiled?...as is suggested by those that say the whole man is defiled when sin comes.

We cannot comprehend the things of the spirit with our natural minds. Meditate on these truths and it'll bless you.

Again here is what the scripture says on the subject of the one born of God cannot sin. Not one time let alone a lifetime.

Look and ponder on the blue below in the scripture.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

( The sealing of the Holy Spirit keeps us the evil from going into our inner man in Christ )

The one born of God cannot sin - not once ever ...because that one's inner man of the heart is in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

I believe in every word of God, just not your twist on what is being said. You guys confess you sin, some have even confessed on here they have willfully sinned, but yet can still be saved. But now you say you cannot sin, even though you have confessed already you do sin often. So which is it?


So basically what your saying is when you do sin, it is not your "inner man" that sins, which you believe can never sin, even when your "outer man" does sin all the time. What a load of gnostic garbage you guys have been brain washed into believing and are even pushing as the truth, which is far from it. When you sin, it is not Christ who is sinning, but you!

If you are living in sin, then you are not truly "in Christ" to begin with.

Escape from reality is a proper name for that site you guys learn from. LOL!