Grace through faith AND the law dont mix?
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The law becomes a burden when you teach that salvation is DEPENDENT on how well one obeys the law (LEGALISM) which many of you are bringing forth,
And that how well one obeys the law is not dependent on being saved, given the seal of the spirit, and learning to love, because God first loved us (GRACE)
And that how well one obeys the law is not dependent on being saved, given the seal of the spirit, and learning to love, because God first loved us (GRACE)
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E
It is established by faith, not by doing.
Thus salvation is by grace through FAITH alone in the work of Christ, who became that curse for us, Faith establishes salvation, because faith establishes the law
Salvation will never be by doing, thus the law and grace can NEVER be mixed when it comes to one becoming a child of God forever.
Thus salvation is by grace through FAITH alone in the work of Christ, who became that curse for us, Faith establishes salvation, because faith establishes the law
Salvation will never be by doing, thus the law and grace can NEVER be mixed when it comes to one becoming a child of God forever.
I forgot tht when I mention obeying the law according to the teachings and example of Jesus Christ, , or I mention we are now children of obedience the same arguments come up resulting in others insinuating being disobedient is ok.
As long as this is the permanent stance of the "race without any responsibility folks," I cnnot nor will not abide with their continual onslaught against loving Christ in obedience.
As long as this is the permanent stance of the "race without any responsibility folks," I cnnot nor will not abide with their continual onslaught against loving Christ in obedience.
For the record, no man obeys the law because he has fait
All who believe Jesus Christ are counted das innocent of the their transgressions,.
The law, being established by faith, or as some translation has it, is made firm by faith, is not abolished but made permanent.
Do not be fooled that the law is no longer.
The laws we obey are no longer engraved on stne but on the flesh tablets of our hearts, and we know the laws that are to be obeyed.. If we falter, we are forgiven for we have the Mediator, Jesus Christ.
Do not hear anyone who even hints at ignoring obedience, especially since what we are to obey is on our hearts if we are made anew.
The law is holy and testifies that we need grace, and, of course, we have it in Christ. Do not hear anyone who says it is ok to be disobedient, for the children of disobedience are of Satan.
The law is not abolished, it is now understood by Christ's teachings and example, and on our hearts always.
All who believe Jesus Christ are counted das innocent of the their transgressions,.
The law, being established by faith, or as some translation has it, is made firm by faith, is not abolished but made permanent.
Do not be fooled that the law is no longer.
The laws we obey are no longer engraved on stne but on the flesh tablets of our hearts, and we know the laws that are to be obeyed.. If we falter, we are forgiven for we have the Mediator, Jesus Christ.
Do not hear anyone who even hints at ignoring obedience, especially since what we are to obey is on our hearts if we are made anew.
The law is holy and testifies that we need grace, and, of course, we have it in Christ. Do not hear anyone who says it is ok to be disobedient, for the children of disobedience are of Satan.
The law is not abolished, it is now understood by Christ's teachings and example, and on our hearts always.
But the faith of Christ is not alone. It is impossible to separate faith(belief) from a work. Its the way we look at the word faith and how it is used throughout the scriptures. Faith is used two ways. His towards us, working in us, the hearing of faith. And ours towards him... acknowledging we have heard him.
It is just that what God calls together, Satan calls separate, or what God calls separate the devil calls it together. One of the wiles of the devil to cause division in the body of Christ, as His bride. )
The faith or belief of God as a promised work or labor of His love shows he was obedient to do the will of the Father. If we do not look at faith as a work the gospel loses its ability to work in us to both will and do His good pleasure. We must reckon the grace of Christ in respect to Christ labor of love or work of faith. A work is necessary it is just not of ourselves lest any man boast in false pride.
For by grace (Christ’s) are ye saved through faith (Christ’s) ; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift "of God": Not of works,(we could do) lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8
It is just that what God calls together, Satan calls separate, or what God calls separate the devil calls it together. One of the wiles of the devil to cause division in the body of Christ, as His bride. )
The faith or belief of God as a promised work or labor of His love shows he was obedient to do the will of the Father. If we do not look at faith as a work the gospel loses its ability to work in us to both will and do His good pleasure. We must reckon the grace of Christ in respect to Christ labor of love or work of faith. A work is necessary it is just not of ourselves lest any man boast in false pride.
For by grace (Christ’s) are ye saved through faith (Christ’s) ; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift "of God": Not of works,(we could do) lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8
1COR. 3:13.
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire;
and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14. - If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
11COR. 9:8.
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things,
may abound to every good work:
what ever the Father asks of us as we grow in grace and Godly character and the knowledge of Him,
our old desires/ways will begin to fade and we will be strengthened more and more each and every day
as we submit to only following His ways...
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire;
and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14. - If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
11COR. 9:8.
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things,
may abound to every good work:
what ever the Father asks of us as we grow in grace and Godly character and the knowledge of Him,
our old desires/ways will begin to fade and we will be strengthened more and more each and every day
as we submit to only following His ways...
E
Yeah.
Sadly I should have known better, instead of actually listening to what I said, you instead assume you know what I mean, and come across with your slanderous accusations.
You forgot to actually listen to what I said,
I never insinuated anything you just accused me of. Nor have I even accused you of saying such things. Maybe I should add you to my "report" list along side of HRFTD for slandering other people?
Sadly I should have known better, instead of actually listening to what I said, you instead assume you know what I mean, and come across with your slanderous accusations.
You forgot to actually listen to what I said,
I never insinuated anything you just accused me of. Nor have I even accused you of saying such things. Maybe I should add you to my "report" list along side of HRFTD for slandering other people?
E
wow. SO the author of hebrews got it wrong when he showed us how faith truely works.
you have it backwards, No man is CAPABLE of obeying the law apart from faith. He may act like he is obeying it, But like the saducee and pharisee and religious jews, they are seen by GOD as disobedient children.
Yep. You have this right.
It always was permanent, It never was void, or null.. It is people who reject God that is the issue, The law is always their to convict and judge them, and should lead them to repentance, Whether they want to believe it or not.
Who said it was no longer? I made how many posts today, and you can not see myself and others DO NOT SEE IT AS ENDING??
True, Except we have to have the power of Christ to obey them, We can not obey them just because we will too. Never have been able to do that.
This is the last warning,, Next time you slander people saying we teach one does not need to learn obedience through christ, I will start reporting you for slander. I am sick of these slanderous posts!
you have it backwards, No man is CAPABLE of obeying the law apart from faith. He may act like he is obeying it, But like the saducee and pharisee and religious jews, they are seen by GOD as disobedient children.
Yep. You have this right.
It always was permanent, It never was void, or null.. It is people who reject God that is the issue, The law is always their to convict and judge them, and should lead them to repentance, Whether they want to believe it or not.
Who said it was no longer? I made how many posts today, and you can not see myself and others DO NOT SEE IT AS ENDING??
True, Except we have to have the power of Christ to obey them, We can not obey them just because we will too. Never have been able to do that.
This is the last warning,, Next time you slander people saying we teach one does not need to learn obedience through christ, I will start reporting you for slander. I am sick of these slanderous posts!
No man obeys the law because of faith..........and because of the Lamb of God, we ar seen as innocent with the guilt of our transgressions not held against us. Both are correct.
Only Jesus Christ obeyed all of the law, and we learn how the law is to be observed since HIs first advent from Him. Because of our gratitude for what He has done for us all, defeated death, that death caused by sin, we do our best to obey just as He did, but those who do not hear Him seem to not understand.
Now your arguments are just that, arguments, and they have a strong tendency to conflict with themselves.
If you so not understand what I am shring, this is just fine, but please do not answer to my posts as if you have read and digested what has been stated and shared.
Very artful in changing the meaning of what has been posted, but not truthful.
Only Jesus Christ obeyed all of the law, and we learn how the law is to be observed since HIs first advent from Him. Because of our gratitude for what He has done for us all, defeated death, that death caused by sin, we do our best to obey just as He did, but those who do not hear Him seem to not understand.
Now your arguments are just that, arguments, and they have a strong tendency to conflict with themselves.
If you so not understand what I am shring, this is just fine, but please do not answer to my posts as if you have read and digested what has been stated and shared.
Very artful in changing the meaning of what has been posted, but not truthful.
E
Where do you come up with these ideas? Can you show me one person who ever obeyed even one command in a way GOD REQUIRES apart from faith? I can look religion, Act religious, Look like I am obeying Gods commands, But if I have no faith, That is all it is, Looks, The bible calls them filthy rags,, useless to God, He will reject those deeds.
No, only the second one is correct my friend.. We are seen as innocent,, forever,
As for our christian life, As our faith grown, and we feel his love more and more, Our lives will grow to look more and more like christ as in faith we learn to trust and follow him.
Thats just it, Our best will not cut it, Our best is not good enough.
Jesus did not do his best, His focus was not on not sinning, or obeying some commands, His focus was on his father, and loving others. Your correct, He did show us the way, Not by law abiding 24/7 as his focus, But by loving others focus 24/7.
The law has no power over a person who is loving others.
lol.. You continually prove you do not know what my arguments are so how can you possibly know this? I am asking sincerely.
Oh I understand, I understand completely. I am just showing you why I do not agree with them for one, and correcting your false accusations against me for the other.
You keep saying I need to understand you, When it is the other way around..
There you go attacking again.. And this is supposed to help us come to an agreement?
ROMANS 8:24.
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why doth he yet hope for?
25.
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
ROMANs 12:12.
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
ROMANS 15:4.
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
15:13.
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope,
through the power of the Holy Ghost.
1JOHN 3:3. - And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why doth he yet hope for?
25.
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
ROMANs 12:12.
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
ROMANS 15:4.
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
15:13.
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope,
through the power of the Holy Ghost.
1JOHN 3:3. - And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Romans 3:30-31
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
How is the Law established by faith?
Its by the fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is what establishes the law. Its what fulfills the law.
Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
These fruit are only produced by faith in Christ. Not any other way.
Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Romans 10:3-4
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
How do you submit to the righteousness of God? Glad you asked...
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
The rest spoken of by the Lord is the fruit of the Spirit which establishes the Law.
Isn't it awesome how it always comes back to the Lord Jesus Christ? There is no higher righteousness, there is no better way than faith in Christ.
People will talk about their work, their righteousness, their obedience. It all falls woefully short of what the Lord Jesus Christ gives to those who believe in Him.
Ephesians 3:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
How is the Law established by faith?
Its by the fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is what establishes the law. Its what fulfills the law.
Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
These fruit are only produced by faith in Christ. Not any other way.
Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Romans 10:3-4
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
How do you submit to the righteousness of God? Glad you asked...
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
The rest spoken of by the Lord is the fruit of the Spirit which establishes the Law.
Isn't it awesome how it always comes back to the Lord Jesus Christ? There is no higher righteousness, there is no better way than faith in Christ.
People will talk about their work, their righteousness, their obedience. It all falls woefully short of what the Lord Jesus Christ gives to those who believe in Him.
Ephesians 3:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
R
Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey him Heb 5:9.not those who disobey him.all these exhortations to obey are not given to God to obey orJesus they are given to us.So if the word ofGod saids to ibey this or that you do it because God says to do it.God is not interested in our opinons he just want us to humble ourselves and do what he says in the word.awake to righteousness and sin no more for some have not the knowledge of God.this true knowledge tobe obedient and not sin against God.one has to read to know what is sin and by grace through faith we take up our cross and stand in the trial against disobedience.this is trueknowledge what God is looking for not thelogy and so on.it is obedience to Gods word inChrist Jesus.
Hebrews 5:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,
To obey Christ is to believe in Christ and to trust Him for salvation by what He has already done for us. He has become our source for eternal salvation - not ourselves and what we do or don't do as a believer in Him.
Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
Romans 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,
To obey Christ is to believe in Christ and to trust Him for salvation by what He has already done for us. He has become our source for eternal salvation - not ourselves and what we do or don't do as a believer in Him.
Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
Romans 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: