Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?

[Gr8grace]

If they are going to be judged and dumped into the LOF at the WTJ, Then they are still being punished in Hades until then. Is this how it works?

yep. But really its the use of the words died/perished/destroyed/lost being used for "cease to exist."

If the great white throne judgement is future. Its obvious that unbelievers who have died,perished,been destroyed do still exist for this future judgement.

They died and were destroyed...........but they still exist.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I have had others misrepresent and even create texts and put it in my quote box, also ckaiming to just make a point, but this is deception, and can cause others to believe a lie when they read those posts in the future.
In my opinion, this should be a serious violation.
I know first-hand the trouble that comes because others have misrepresented my words/intentions, and I'd hate to see Ahwatukee be misunderstood because someone else manipulated his posts/text.
I don't think the person should be banned, as I don't believe there was malicious intent, as I believe was done to me, but there should be a warning, and Ahwatukee was correct in pointing it out and asking it not be done again. These topics are difficult enough to try to discuss clearly without ppl manipulating someone elses quotes. Highlighting or condensing may be one thing, but changing words, or adding or deleting, while leaving it in the quote-box is deceptive practice. Just my opinion.

I completely and agree and say, Amen to that. God bless you for recognizing that.

 

[oyster67]

I have had others misrepresent and even create texts and put it in my quote box, also ckaiming to just make a point, but this is deception, and can cause others to believe a lie when they read those posts in the future.
In my opinion, this should be a serious violation.
I know first-hand the trouble that comes because others have misrepresented my words/intentions, and I'd hate to see Ahwatukee be misunderstood because someone else manipulated his posts/text.
I don't think the person should be banned, as I don't believe there was malicious intent, as I believe was done to me, but there should be a warning, and Ahwatukee was correct in pointing it out and asking it not be done again. These topics are difficult enough to try to discuss clearly without ppl manipulating someone elses quotes. Highlighting or condensing may be one thing, but changing words, or adding or deleting, while leaving it in the quote-box is deceptive practice. Just my opinion.

I see your point. I have done this thing of only posting the first paragraph. I can see how it could lead to trouble. Making it illegal or impossible to do might be a good idea.

 

[Gr8grace]

The God of the Holy Bible Commanded the man (Adam) Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” We know that death ends life, I personally do not believe that the God of the Holy Bible would make a false statement with a deliberate intent to deceive.

Notice God said "in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die"

If you go into your concordance you will see that there are 2 deaths in this verse.

" In the day that you eat of it dying you shall surely die." They died spiritually the moment they ate. Separated from God.

Satan new all about this spiritual death.......because he is existing in this death...forever. And that is what satan wanted for Adam and Esha.......but God had a different plan. Grace and mercy.

 

[kedge]

You'll never be able to help some people see that what they insist upon being divine revelation may be no more than simply THEIR esoteric interpretation. They honestly do believe they are the chosen one to whom God has revealed the "truth" while keeping it hidden from anyone else.

.

Yikes, like the woes of the pharisees and dead mens bones?

 

[kedge]

Notice God said "in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die".

Yes, I also notice that when a person dies their life ends and dust is what they return to.

 

[B1Davanda]

Yes, I also notice that when a person dies their life ends and dust is what they return to.

You may notice that happen to their body, but how can you 'notice' what happens to the inner man?

 

[oyster67]

yep. But really its the use of the words died/perished/destroyed/lost being used for "cease to exist."

If the great white throne judgement is future. Its obvious that unbelievers who have died,perished,been destroyed do still exist for this future judgement.

They died and were destroyed...........but they still exist.

I don't want to digress for very long, but do the righteous dead still go to paradise to await the rapture?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello kedge,

Yes but I was just showing another prespective, as that is what I said. Let me (if I may?) just explain that because YOU claim to have the Spirit of the God of the Holy Bible is not necessarily proof that YOU have divine disclosure on all matters concerning Scripture. You and many other Christians have interpretations of those Scriptures but this does not necessarily make it the absolute truth and meaning. That is all I was pointing out.

My concern was your changing of the "Holy Spirit" to "a Spirit." There is only One Spirit who teaches those who are in Christ and therefore infers that I am getting my information from a spirit other than God's. I agree with you that Satan masquerades as an angel of light and so it is not a great surprise that his ministers masquerade as ministers of righteousness. So yes, we must all be like the Bereans who searched the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was saying was the truth. Regarding Biblical truths, this is why I always provide scripture in support of what I am proclaiming, so that those reading can go and check it out. I don't expect anyone to just take my word for anything, but for them to go and read the scriptures that I am citing.

In my opinion, those who are in Christ, should always be in the process of becoming experts in the word of God and which is sorely lacking today. Whatever anyone hears from their pastor or any teacher or what they read in any book, they should already know that information themselves or should always be searching the scriptures to see if what is being taught is the truth.

 

[Gr8grace]

You'll never be able to help some people see that what they insist upon being divine revelation may be no more than simply THEIR esoteric interpretation. They honestly do believe they are the chosen one to whom God has revealed the "truth" while keeping it hidden from anyone else.

Ya know... You just might turn out to be quite a Christian one of these days.

I was actually thinking about starting a thread on this. Because I have never had a "revelation" or the Holy Spirit give me an instant meaning to a verse or concept. I have had "Ah Ha" moments but that has always come from line upon line,precept upon precept coming together.

I actually get the willies when someone implies that the Holy Spirit just jumped in and gave them instant revelation.

All of my revelations have come from making sure I am filled with Spirit and study,study study and line upon line and eventually forming what I believe........under my right pastor teacher with the gift. Because I had many teachers who were not right for me.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I don't want to digress for very long, but do the righteous dead still go to paradise to await the rapture?

Good day oyster67 and excuse me for jumping in Gr8grace,

"Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord"
(2 Cor.5:6)

"If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. (Phil.1:23)

In both of these scriptures, Paul reveals that when the believer in Christ dies, to be present in the body is to be absent from the Lord and to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord, i.e. at the time of death the spirit/soul departs and goes immediately to be in the presence of the Lord. This is exactly what the event of the rich man and Lazarus is about, revealing two men who had died and then were found to be conscious and aware in their spirits after the death of their bodies. However, prior to Christ's appearing in the flesh, all of the OT saints when they died their spirits/souls departed and went to that place where Abraham and Lazarus were, which was that place of paradise. After Christ resurrected he took with him all of those OT saints out of that place of paradise which was across from that place of torment where the rich man was/is and took them to heaven where they currently anticipate the resurrection of their immortal and glorified bodies. As a side note, regarding the event where Saul employed the services of the witch of Endor to call up Samuel, I believe that it was that same place that Abraham and Lazarus were that he rose from. For Samuel said, "why have you called me up?"

I hope this gives some better clarity regarding this subject.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I was actually thinking about starting a thread on this. Because I have never had a "revelation" or the Holy Spirit give me an instant meaning to a verse or concept. I have had "Ah Ha" moments but that has always come from line upon line,precept upon precept coming together.

I actually get the willies when someone implies that the Holy Spirit just jumped in and gave them instant revelation.

All of my revelations have come from making sure I am filled with Spirit and study,study study and line upon line and eventually forming what I believe........under my right pastor teacher with the gift. Because I had many teachers who were not right for me.

To Willie: Or it may be the teaching of the Holy Spirit that the Lord promised that he would dwell in us and teach us all things and which is why it is important to provide scripture. By the way, the Spirit doesn't "just jump in" but is always there and His teaching is continual.

 

[B1Davanda]

I have one pastor who says 'Hey, you ppl better be checking me out with scripture, first of all, I'm still learning, too, and also, even if you've trusted me for the last 30 years, I might've gone off the deep end last night, and now I'm just makin stuff up, so you better be checking me out, it could be your eternal destiny at stake '. Lol.
Actually, he always wants to honor the Lord, and asks us to know the word to help keep him accountable, and I really admire that honesty and humility in him. It's a blessing that the Lord has given us gifted pastor/teachers to help us learn His Word, more testimony to His love and grace towards us.

 

[Gr8grace]

I don't want to digress for very long, but do the righteous dead still go to paradise to await the rapture?

No, Jesus Christ emptied that compartment in His ascension to heaven.

I believe everybody who has died that was saved has an interim body and is in heaven. And once the rapture takes place everybody(believers) will receive their Glorified bodies at the Bema seat evaluation.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I have one pastor who says 'Hey, you ppl better be checking me out with scripture, first of all, I'm still learning, too, and also, even if you've trusted me for the last 30 years, I might've gone off the deep end last night, and now I'm just makin stuff up, so you better be checking me out, it could be your eternal destiny at stake '. Lol.
Actually, he always wants to honor the Lord, and asks us to know the word to help keep him accountable, and I really admire that honesty and humility in him. It's a blessing that the Lord has given us gifted pastor/teachers to help us learn His Word, more testimony to His love and grace towards us.

Then he is good and honest pastor/teacher and it should be that way for every church, at every gathering, every bible study and every sermon. We as individual believers, should know the word of God, because we can never know every thing. It is an on-going, life-long process. I have lived in and have camped out in the book of Revelation and the Spirit is still revealing hidden truths in that book and information regarding end-time events, as well with other Biblical topics. I believe that God loves for us to search out his word and that He rewards those who do so by revealing the deeper truths.

 

[oyster67]

Then he is good and honest pastor/teacher and it should be that way for every church, at every gathering, every bible study and every sermon. We as individual believers, should know the word of God, because we can never know every thing. It is an on-going, life-long process. I have lived in and have camped out in the book of Revelation and the Spirit is still revealing hidden truths in that book and information regarding end-time events, as well with other Biblical topics. I believe that God loves for us to search out his word and that He rewards those who do so by revealing the deeper truths.

It always excites me when I realize that it is the same revealer that reveals things to each of us who listen for His voice as we read the Scripture.

 

[ember]

in summation let me say:

( removed )


(hope that doesn't get me in trouble...)

 

[tourist]

in summation let me say:

(removed)


(hope that doesn't get me in trouble...)

It seems to be a fundamental biblical word.

 

[kedge]

You may notice that happen to their body, but how can you 'notice' what happens to the inner man?

I cannot notice what happens to the inner man, the Holy Bible informs me at Genesis 2:7 the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Job 27:3 as long as I have life within me,the breath of God in my nostrils. Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Psalm 147:4 He counts the number of the stars; He gives names to all of them.


I am confident that the God of the Bible can remember every cell every fibre of an individuals being, and of course the resurrection assures the reader of the Bible that this Almighty God can bring any person back from their dead state (no matter for how long) and back to life again.

 

[MsSuzanna]

I thought this about hell, If you gonna make a thread about sumpin then let it be about sumpin. I saw the title and interested but it seems to be a thread about the deity of Christ.

Well, go back to the beginning and read forward. Threads have a way of evolving just as any conversation would.