Grace through faith AND the law dont mix?

ralph · May 19, 2016

It takes all parts,grace,faith which produces obedience.otherwise the bible would be pretty thin.if thst iswhat works for somepeople praise God! Just ad long as you obedient to God and stop sinning against god.that is what a disciple does.most believers can not stop sinning because they have half a gospel or another gospel which the apostles never preached.every one that names the name of christ depart from iniguity 2tim 2:19.the Lord knows that are his.so i say no matter how look at it,obedience,grace and faith can notbe separated they go together.as long ad one stop sinning.we are to follow Jesus in his steps who did no sin,we are also to do the same.that is the gospel,tha way of the bride of christ.

ralph · May 19, 2016

faith,grace and the do mix together.romans8:3,4. We ful the righteous required of the law,thou shall not covet.to covet is a hidden thing and there the law can not do anything about a person when he sins.it is only when sin comes out of the body is when the law can do something about it.the law help me tosee my the deed of the body which must be put off.all parts are needed to developin to Christ jesus.

Wall · May 21, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

We must try EG but were gonna fail. The law is our schoolmaster that brings us to Christ.

1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

Keep above scripture in mind when reading scriptures below

EPHESIANS 1 [7] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Our sins are forgivin by the grace of God

ROMANS 6[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Scripture above says that we can continue in sin. What is sin {1John3v4}

ROMANS 5 [20] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: [21] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

[FONT=&quot]Again the act of sin remains. So the law remains. But where sin is {1John3v4} grace abounds more[/FONT]

Wall · May 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

1) the law of the spirit of life in Crist Jesus

Not exactly sure what your speaking of here but...

JOHN 4 [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

How do true worshipers worship? In spirit and truth

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

The gentiles have been made partakers of Gods law.

ACTS 24 [13] Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, SO WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, BELIEVING ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAW and in the prophets:

Paul speaking

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. [16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;

How are we to recieve this Spirit of truth spoken of in John 4? By the keeping of Gods 10 commandments

Wall · May 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

2) the law of love

Your tryin to tell me we need not keep Gods 10 commandments because we are givin a new testament commandment “to love one another”. Problem with your theory is the new testament scriptures tell us how to “love one another”.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

To love the children of God, we are to keep the commandments

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] And THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Love one another. Keep the commandments

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

ROMANS 13 [8] Owe no man any thing, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.[9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, Thou shalt not bear false witness, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I decided to show the scripture of James 2 and Romans 13 which explain to us how we are to show our love for one another. Its plain as day. Keep Gods 10 commandments. And i suppose i will hear you say that since “thou shalt have no other gods before me" is not mentioned this commandment can be ignored.

Wall · May 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

4) the perfect law of liberty

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil THE ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY

Do not commit adultry, do not kill (the 10 commandments) and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Keep ALL 10. Ya practice to break one, your guilty of all {verse 10}. You are a transgressor. Do you keep Gods day of rest (the sabbath) or do you keep mans day of rest?

JAMES 1 [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.[25] But whoso looketh into THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY, and continueth therein, he being NOT A FORGETFUL HEARER, BUT A DOER OF THE WORK, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

ROMANS 2 [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13] (For NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST before God, but THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

The perfect law of liberty. Blessed be the man that be a doer of the work. Work??? Bad word for some.

PSALM 119 [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.[43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.[44] So shall I KEEP THY LAW continually for ever and ever.[45] And I WILL WALK AT LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.[46] I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.[47] And I WILL DELIGHT MYSELF IN THY COMMANDMENTS, which I have loved.

So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY. That cant be misinterpreted

Grace777x70 · May 21, 2016

Wall said:

I'm saying that the law of love and the spirit of life in Christ Jesus fulfills the intent of the law. The Christian would never even have heard that there was the 10 commandments and he would by walking in love that is in Christ fulfill the intent of them by simply walking by the spirit.

Now it's good to read about them as they are a shadow of the real substance which is Jesus. The 10 commandments are not the gospel of the grace of Christ. Read in Acts 10 and 13 we have word for word records of the gospel being preached and it has nothing to do with the law including the 10 commandments.

I know the gospel of the grace of Christ drives law-keepers crazy and it is supposed to.

The purpose of the law ( including the 10 commandments ) was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good and holy! But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross.

Satan uses the law against us. Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law. BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us.

When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed". If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!

BibleGuy · May 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Friendly Greetings!

Yes, the law is good.

And, we should do good (not sin).

So, we should obey (not disobey) the law!

Also, we agree the law is holy.

Should we be holy? Yes! (1 Pe. 1:15-17).

Thus, we should exemplify holiness through obedience to the law.

That helps explain why Peter APPLIES Lev. 11 to us in 1 Pe. 1:16.

blessings!
BibleGuy

Wall · May 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

According to the scriptures Jesus did not do away with the law but made the law greater. He magnified the law to a spiritual level. He made the 10 commandments even harder to keep. We are now to keep the law in newness of the spirit

2 COR. 3 [6] WHO ALSO HATH MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

ROMANS 7 [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.

As we can see in above scriptures we are now to walk in the spirit of the law. If we walk only in the letter of the law this will lead to death, but if we walk in the spirit of the law this leads to life.

MATTHEW 5 [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT KILL; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not kill
NEW SPIRIT- Don’t even get angry. Call no man a fool. Love one another in thought, word and deed.

MATTHEW 5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But i say unto you, that WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY with her already in his heart.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not commit adultery
NEW SPIRIT- Do not look on a woman to lust. Keep the law in our mind and spirit. Even in our eyes.

So you can see that Jesus did not do away with the letter of the law. Common sense will tell ya in order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. Jesus made the commandments even harder to keep and more honorable.

ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Yes, Jesus magnified the law. He took the letter of the law (which leads to death) and magnified the law to a spiritual level (which leads to life).

If anyone can tell me how you can walk in the spirit of the law and be not also be walking in the letter please let me know how to do that. Someone walked in on WC Fields while he was reading the bible. He replied Ahhhh Yes...Im looking for loopholes. Well there aint none

Wall · May 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Its the law keepers that need the grace of God. We know we sin. Its those that claim they need not keep Gods law that reject Gods grace because they believe they cannot sin because there is no law to sin againt.

1 John 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 3:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Grace777x70 · May 21, 2016

What I am saying is that one doesn't have to know what the law had in it in order to walk the Christian life in Christ.

Paul and Peter described some things in the law as good things but the law was not made for the righteous to live by. We now live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ, the law of love, the law of faith, the law of liberty in Christ. - the law of Jesus in us!.

Romans 7:1 We are dead to the law when we died on the cross with Jesus and now we are married to Jesus and the trying to keep the law is committing spiritual adultery against our Lord. Love will fulfill the intent of the law.

Here is a good video on committing spiritual adultery by trying to live by the law.

[video=youtube;6bhZlQNCV7o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bhZlQNCV7o[/video]

Wall · May 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Somethin much better than a video. Scripture!

JOHN 3 [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him MIGHT BE SAVED. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the condemnation, THAT LIGHT IS COME INTO THE WORLD, AND MEN LOVED DARKNESS RATHER THAN LIGHT, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Many will quote John 3[16-18]. But if you go on to read the next 3 verses in John (19-21) you will see that unbelievers have NO LIGHT IN THEM because they prefer darkness. Could it be there are some that say they believe and think they believe, but actually believe not due to their deeds? Their works?

ISAIAH 8 [20] TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY: IF THEY SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.[21] And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward.[22] And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.

Law and the Testimony

REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

Law and the Testimony
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
To the law (10 commandments) and the testimony (Jesus) If they speak not according to these words THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM. Just as the WORD says in John 3.

ACTS 17 [10] And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. [11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and SEARCHED THE SCRIPTURES DAILY, whether those things were so. [12] Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Many will claim that Isaiah 8 is old testament and may be ignored{even though its speaking of the Day of the Lord}. Im not sure where the many came up with that train of thought. The old testament scriptures were the only scriptures around during the time of Paul. In Acts 17 you find a people who searched the old testament scriptures daily to see if Paul was telling the truth. By testing Pauls words in this way, many came to believe. Nothings changed since Pauls time. Scripture should be of no private interpretation. Scripture will interpret scripture.

BibleGuy · May 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Hello,

To the contrary, Paul said we SHOULD keep God's commandments (1 Cor. 7:19). And WHERE are these commands found? The Torah of Moses! (1 Ki. 2:3).

It follows that Paul taught Christians to OBEY (not ignore or oppose or disregard) the Torah of Moses.

And, you write: "...the law was not made for the righteous to live by..."

However, Jesus said we LIVE by EVERY word that proceeds from God's mouth (Mt. 4:4 and Lk. 4:4, citing Dt. 8:3, referencing the Torah of Moses).

AND, Paul said the righteous LIVE by faith, citing Hab. 2:4 (which equates "faith" with Heb. "emunah"). And what is this way of "emunah"? TORAH! (Ps. 119:30; 119:86; 119:138).

So, Jesus and Paul have written Scriptures which rather clearly oppose your viewpoint.

Furthermore, spiritual adultery ("playing the harlot", Heb. "zanah", e.g., Ex. 34:15-16) refers to those who REJECT YHVH and His Torah, following other gods and their evil ways.

Spiritual adultery is NOT living by Torah! That's completely backwards.

blessings...
BibleGuy

BibleGuy · May 21, 2016

Scriptureplz said:

====================================================================

Hello Scriptureplz,

You wrote: “Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!”

I now will disconfirm all of these alleged reasons which you evidently are using to argue that Christians are not obligated to grow in faithful obedience to the Law of Moses.

1.The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

My response: Ac. 15:10 refers NOT to the law as an unbearable yoke, but rather to faithless obedience to law AND circumcision as a prerequisite for salvation. Thus, Ac. 15:10 does NOT prove that Christians should not obey the law.

2. The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

My response: Here, Paul defines “sin” as “violation of law”. AND, Paul tells us to NOT sin (Rom. 6:15). It follows that Paul teaches OBEDIENCE to law.

3. If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

My response: Rather, if FAITHLESS obedience to law worked, then faith would be irrelevant. It does not follow, however, that Christians should not FAITHFULLY obey law.

4. The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

My response: The law brings wrath upon those who FAITHLESSLY follow it. That’s why Paul emphasizes the need for faith (Rom. 4:16). Does it follow that the law should NOT be faithfully followed by Christians? Of course not.

5. The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

My response: That’s NOT the only purpose! The law also DEFINES sin (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4). And, we should NOT sin (Rom. 6:15). Thus, we should NOT disobey the law. That’s why Paul tells us to OBEY the commands (1 Cor. 7:19), not ignore them or pretend they no longer apply.

6. Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

My response: READ THE NEXT VERSE! Rom. 6:15 says we should NOT sin. What is sin? Violation of law (Rom. 3:20; 7:7). Thus, we are NOT “under law” in the technical sense Paul addresses; nevertheless, we should also NOT sin by disobeying the law. It follows that we should still obey the law, just as Paul taught.

7. Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6).

My response: READ THE NEXT VERSE! Rom. 7:7 says sin IS violation of law. AND, Paul said we should not sin (Rom. 6:15). Thus, we should NOT sin by violating law. It follows that Paul taught obedience to law.

8. The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12).

My response: The law cannot help you be good, perfect, or holy UNLESS you have faith to accompany it! Remember, Paul said we should live by faith (Rom. 1:17), citing Hab. 2:4 which equates “faith” with Heb. “emunah”. And what is this way of “emunah”? TORAH! (see “emunah” in Ps. 119:30,86,138). It follows that Paul OPPOSED faithless Torah-obedience, but UPHELD faithful Torah-obedience.

9. The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10).

My response: The cited verse does not say “only”. In fact, our law-obedience (and law-teaching) determines our place in the coming kingdom (Mt. 5:19).

10. The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

My response: No. We make ourselves sinful by disobeying the law.

11. The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

My response: But with the Spirit we reject the mind set on the flesh which can not obey the law (Rom. 8:7). It follows that with the Spirit, we OBEY the law.

12. The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56).

My response: But shall we sin? Paul says “no” (Rom. 6:15). It follows that we should OBEY (not disobey) the law.

13. The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7) and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:9).

My response: Paul ALSO told the Corinthians to OBEY that very law (1 Cor. 7:19).

14. The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

My response: The New Covenant has the law (Torah) written upon our hearts! (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; 10:15-16). And, that which is upon our heart should be OBEYED (Dt. 30:14), not ignored or opposed. Thus, the TORAH passes directly into the New Covenant, in which we participate by faith.

15. The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11).

My response: The glory on Moses’ face was fading away…not the law! Remember, Torah passes directly into the New Covenant (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; 10:15-16). The law has NOT faded away!

16. Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15).

My response: This is only true for those who are NOT “in Christ” (2 Cor. 3:14). Thus, we who are in Christ should obey the commands of the law, just as Paul instructed (1 Cor. 7:19).

17. The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

My response: The law justifies nobody apart from FAITH (Gal. 2:16). Thus, we who are justified by faith in Christ may FAITHFULLY obey the law, just as Scripture requires.

18. Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19).

My response: But Paul is ALIVE unto God (Gal. 2:19) AND God’s commandments (1 Cor. 7:19) which he tells us to obey.

19. The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

My response: NO. The law frustrates grace, unless FAITH (Gal. 2:20) is also present. It does NOT follow that Christians are free to disobey God’s law.

20. To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1).

My response: Rather, it would be “stupid” to go back to FAITHLESS law-obedience. That’s why we need faith (Gal. 3:2). It does not follow that Christians are free to oppose FAITHFUL law-obedience.

21. The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10).

My response: Rather, it curses all who FAITHLESSLY practice it and fail to do it perfectly. That’s why we need faith (Gal. 3:11). It does not follow that Christians are free to oppose FAITHFUL law-obedience.

22. The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12).

My response: Quite the contrary! Paul is merely affirming that FAITHLESS law-obedience has nothing to do with faith in Christ. Please read the very next verse (Hab. 2:4) Paul cites! It equates faith (Gr. “pistis)” with faithfulness (Heb. “emunah”, Hab. 2:4). And what is this way of “emunah”? TORAH! (See “emunah” in Ps. 119:30,86,138.)

23. The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13).

My response: Read carefully! Christ redeemed us from the CURSE (not from the law itself).

24. The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16).

My response: If that were true, then Christ would NOT uphold the law as the standard which determines our position in the coming kingdom. BUT, Christ DID uphold that very standard for us (Mt. 5:19), with frightening consequences for the religious among us who walk in opposition to that law (Mt. 7:21-23).

25. If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

My response: That’s why we need faith (Gal. 3:22). Should we (who are of faith) thus disobey God’s law? Of course not. Rather, our love for God requires obedience to that law (1 Jn. 5:3).

26. The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23).

My response: The law BEFORE FAITH (Gal. 3:23) was a prison. It does not follow that Christians are now free to oppose FAITHFUL law-obedience.

27. The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24).

My response: If that were true, then we MUST disobey EVERY law God ever issued! Of course this is not Paul’s position. Rather, Paul uses an allegory to convey the preeminence of faith in God’s promise. Is this faith opposed to God’s law? Of course not. Rather, Jesus commands us to love God (Mt. 22:37, citing Dt. 6), and how does Dt. 6 require that we love God? Through OBEDIENCE to the commands of the law (Dt. 6:25).

28. Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15).

My response: Christ abolished the human “dogma” (Eph. 2:15) separating Jew from Gentile, not the Law of God.

29. Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8).

My response: Yes…law without knowing the Messiah is like”skubalon”. It does not follow that law WITH Messiah is like “skubalon”.

30. The law…was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10).

My response: Yes…”do not kill” is made as a prohibition against people who might want to consider killing. So shall righteous Christians therefore kill? Of course not. We should not disobey the law, even though many things in the law pertain to prohibition of evil actions we would never even dream of doing. That’s why Paul obeyed the law (Ac. 24:14), and expects us to do the same (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9).

31. The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19).

My response: Yes, the law will pass away in the future…but it has NOT yet passed away. Rather, it is merely “ready to pass away” (Heb. 8:13). Thus, it is still in force, in conjunction with the inauguration of the New Covenant.

32. God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8).

My response: AND, the Torah (Jer. 31:33) passes directly into this New Covenant! So let’s stop pretending it no longer applies to us Christians.

33. It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13).

My response: Yes! READY to vanish…implying it had NOT yet vanished as of the New-Covenant-era time of the writing of Hebrews. It follows that Heb. 8:13 confirms my position, and disconfirms yours.

34. It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1).

My response: Note the PRESENT TENSE (“has a shadow”). Thus, the shadow CONTINUES (present tense) to function, despite its imperfections.

CONCLUSION: Will you kindly address these objections to your position?

If not, then I urge you to grow in faithful obedience to the law which the Father, Son, Spirit, Law, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Apostles, and Epistles all compel us to obey, in conjunction with faith in our Messiah.

Thank you.

BibleGuy

eternally-gratefull · May 21, 2016

BibleGuy said:

====================================================================

Hello Scriptureplz,

You wrote: “Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!”

I now will disconfirm all of these alleged reasons which you evidently are using to argue that Christians are not obligated to grow in faithful obedience to the Law of Moses.

1.The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

My response: Ac. 15:10 refers NOT to the law as an unbearable yoke, but rather to faithless obedience to law AND circumcision as a prerequisite for salvation. Thus, Ac. 15:10 does NOT prove that Christians should not obey the law.

2. The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

My response: Here, Paul defines “sin” as “violation of law”. AND, Paul tells us to NOT sin (Rom. 6:15). It follows that Paul teaches OBEDIENCE to law.

3. If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

My response: Rather, if FAITHLESS obedience to law worked, then faith would be irrelevant. It does not follow, however, that Christians should not FAITHFULLY obey law.

4. The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

My response: The law brings wrath upon those who FAITHLESSLY follow it. That’s why Paul emphasizes the need for faith (Rom. 4:16). Does it follow that the law should NOT be faithfully followed by Christians? Of course not.

5. The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

My response: That’s NOT the only purpose! The law also DEFINES sin (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4). And, we should NOT sin (Rom. 6:15). Thus, we should NOT disobey the law. That’s why Paul tells us to OBEY the commands (1 Cor. 7:19), not ignore them or pretend they no longer apply.

6. Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

My response: READ THE NEXT VERSE! Rom. 6:15 says we should NOT sin. What is sin? Violation of law (Rom. 3:20; 7:7). Thus, we are NOT “under law” in the technical sense Paul addresses; nevertheless, we should also NOT sin by disobeying the law. It follows that we should still obey the law, just as Paul taught.

7. Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6).

My response: READ THE NEXT VERSE! Rom. 7:7 says sin IS violation of law. AND, Paul said we should not sin (Rom. 6:15). Thus, we should NOT sin by violating law. It follows that Paul taught obedience to law.

8. The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12).

My response: The law cannot help you be good, perfect, or holy UNLESS you have faith to accompany it! Remember, Paul said we should live by faith (Rom. 1:17), citing Hab. 2:4 which equates “faith” with Heb. “emunah”. And what is this way of “emunah”? TORAH! (see “emunah” in Ps. 119:30,86,138). It follows that Paul OPPOSED faithless Torah-obedience, but UPHELD faithful Torah-obedience.

9. The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10).

My response: The cited verse does not say “only”. In fact, our law-obedience (and law-teaching) determines our place in the coming kingdom (Mt. 5:19).

10. The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

My response: No. We make ourselves sinful by disobeying the law.

11. The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

My response: But with the Spirit we reject the mind set on the flesh which can not obey the law (Rom. 8:7). It follows that with the Spirit, we OBEY the law.

12. The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56).

My response: But shall we sin? Paul says “no” (Rom. 6:15). It follows that we should OBEY (not disobey) the law.

13. The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7) and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:9).

My response: Paul ALSO told the Corinthians to OBEY that very law (1 Cor. 7:19).

14. The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

My response: The New Covenant has the law (Torah) written upon our hearts! (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; 10:15-16). And, that which is upon our heart should be OBEYED (Dt. 30:14), not ignored or opposed. Thus, the TORAH passes directly into the New Covenant, in which we participate by faith.

15. The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11).

My response: The glory on Moses’ face was fading away…not the law! Remember, Torah passes directly into the New Covenant (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; 10:15-16). The law has NOT faded away!

16. Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15).

My response: This is only true for those who are NOT “in Christ” (2 Cor. 3:14). Thus, we who are in Christ should obey the commands of the law, just as Paul instructed (1 Cor. 7:19).

17. The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

My response: The law justifies nobody apart from FAITH (Gal. 2:16). Thus, we who are justified by faith in Christ may FAITHFULLY obey the law, just as Scripture requires.

18. Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19).

My response: But Paul is ALIVE unto God (Gal. 2:19) AND God’s commandments (1 Cor. 7:19) which he tells us to obey.

19. The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

My response: NO. The law frustrates grace, unless FAITH (Gal. 2:20) is also present. It does NOT follow that Christians are free to disobey God’s law.

20. To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1).

My response: Rather, it would be “stupid” to go back to FAITHLESS law-obedience. That’s why we need faith (Gal. 3:2). It does not follow that Christians are free to oppose FAITHFUL law-obedience.

21. The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10).

My response: Rather, it curses all who FAITHLESSLY practice it and fail to do it perfectly. That’s why we need faith (Gal. 3:11). It does not follow that Christians are free to oppose FAITHFUL law-obedience.

22. The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12).

My response: Quite the contrary! Paul is merely affirming that FAITHLESS law-obedience has nothing to do with faith in Christ. Please read the very next verse (Hab. 2:4) Paul cites! It equates faith (Gr. “pistis)” with faithfulness (Heb. “emunah”, Hab. 2:4). And what is this way of “emunah”? TORAH! (See “emunah” in Ps. 119:30,86,138.)

23. The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13).

My response: Read carefully! Christ redeemed us from the CURSE (not from the law itself).

24. The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16).

My response: If that were true, then Christ would NOT uphold the law as the standard which determines our position in the coming kingdom. BUT, Christ DID uphold that very standard for us (Mt. 5:19), with frightening consequences for the religious among us who walk in opposition to that law (Mt. 7:21-23).

25. If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

My response: That’s why we need faith (Gal. 3:22). Should we (who are of faith) thus disobey God’s law? Of course not. Rather, our love for God requires obedience to that law (1 Jn. 5:3).

26. The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23).

My response: The law BEFORE FAITH (Gal. 3:23) was a prison. It does not follow that Christians are now free to oppose FAITHFUL law-obedience.

27. The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24).

My response: If that were true, then we MUST disobey EVERY law God ever issued! Of course this is not Paul’s position. Rather, Paul uses an allegory to convey the preeminence of faith in God’s promise. Is this faith opposed to God’s law? Of course not. Rather, Jesus commands us to love God (Mt. 22:37, citing Dt. 6), and how does Dt. 6 require that we love God? Through OBEDIENCE to the commands of the law (Dt. 6:25).

28. Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15).

My response: Christ abolished the human “dogma” (Eph. 2:15) separating Jew from Gentile, not the Law of God.

29. Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8).

My response: Yes…law without knowing the Messiah is like”skubalon”. It does not follow that law WITH Messiah is like “skubalon”.

30. The law…was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10).

My response: Yes…”do not kill” is made as a prohibition against people who might want to consider killing. So shall righteous Christians therefore kill? Of course not. We should not disobey the law, even though many things in the law pertain to prohibition of evil actions we would never even dream of doing. That’s why Paul obeyed the law (Ac. 24:14), and expects us to do the same (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9).

31. The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19).

My response: Yes, the law will pass away in the future…but it has NOT yet passed away. Rather, it is merely “ready to pass away” (Heb. 8:13). Thus, it is still in force, in conjunction with the inauguration of the New Covenant.

32. God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8).

My response: AND, the Torah (Jer. 31:33) passes directly into this New Covenant! So let’s stop pretending it no longer applies to us Christians.

33. It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13).

My response: Yes! READY to vanish…implying it had NOT yet vanished as of the New-Covenant-era time of the writing of Hebrews. It follows that Heb. 8:13 confirms my position, and disconfirms yours.

34. It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1).

My response: Note the PRESENT TENSE (“has a shadow”). Thus, the shadow CONTINUES (present tense) to function, despite its imperfections.

CONCLUSION: Will you kindly address these objections to your position?

If not, then I urge you to grow in faithful obedience to the law which the Father, Son, Spirit, Law, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Apostles, and Epistles all compel us to obey, in conjunction with faith in our Messiah.

Thank you.

BibleGuy

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Seems like one verse says it all

We are not under law. But under grace.

Scriptureplz · May 21, 2016

BibleGuy said:

====================================================================

Hello Scriptureplz,

You wrote: “Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!”

I now will disconfirm all of these alleged reasons which you evidently are using to argue that Christians are not obligated to grow in faithful obedience to the Law of Moses.

1.The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

My response: Ac. 15:10 refers NOT to the law as an unbearable yoke, but rather to faithless obedience to law AND circumcision as a prerequisite for salvation. Thus, Ac. 15:10 does NOT prove that Christians should not obey the law.

2. The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

My response: Here, Paul defines “sin” as “violation of law”. AND, Paul tells us to NOT sin (Rom. 6:15). It follows that Paul teaches OBEDIENCE to law.

3. If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

My response: Rather, if FAITHLESS obedience to law worked, then faith would be irrelevant. It does not follow, however, that Christians should not FAITHFULLY obey law.

4. The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

My response: The law brings wrath upon those who FAITHLESSLY follow it. That’s why Paul emphasizes the need for faith (Rom. 4:16). Does it follow that the law should NOT be faithfully followed by Christians? Of course not.

5. The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

My response: That’s NOT the only purpose! The law also DEFINES sin (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4). And, we should NOT sin (Rom. 6:15). Thus, we should NOT disobey the law. That’s why Paul tells us to OBEY the commands (1 Cor. 7:19), not ignore them or pretend they no longer apply.

6. Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

My response: READ THE NEXT VERSE! Rom. 6:15 says we should NOT sin. What is sin? Violation of law (Rom. 3:20; 7:7). Thus, we are NOT “under law” in the technical sense Paul addresses; nevertheless, we should also NOT sin by disobeying the law. It follows that we should still obey the law, just as Paul taught.

7. Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6).

My response: READ THE NEXT VERSE! Rom. 7:7 says sin IS violation of law. AND, Paul said we should not sin (Rom. 6:15). Thus, we should NOT sin by violating law. It follows that Paul taught obedience to law.

8. The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12).

My response: The law cannot help you be good, perfect, or holy UNLESS you have faith to accompany it! Remember, Paul said we should live by faith (Rom. 1:17), citing Hab. 2:4 which equates “faith” with Heb. “emunah”. And what is this way of “emunah”? TORAH! (see “emunah” in Ps. 119:30,86,138). It follows that Paul OPPOSED faithless Torah-obedience, but UPHELD faithful Torah-obedience.

9. The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10).

My response: The cited verse does not say “only”. In fact, our law-obedience (and law-teaching) determines our place in the coming kingdom (Mt. 5:19).

10. The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

My response: No. We make ourselves sinful by disobeying the law.

11. The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

My response: But with the Spirit we reject the mind set on the flesh which can not obey the law (Rom. 8:7). It follows that with the Spirit, we OBEY the law.

12. The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56).

My response: But shall we sin? Paul says “no” (Rom. 6:15). It follows that we should OBEY (not disobey) the law.

13. The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7) and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:9).

My response: Paul ALSO told the Corinthians to OBEY that very law (1 Cor. 7:19).

14. The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

My response: The New Covenant has the law (Torah) written upon our hearts! (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; 10:15-16). And, that which is upon our heart should be OBEYED (Dt. 30:14), not ignored or opposed. Thus, the TORAH passes directly into the New Covenant, in which we participate by faith.

15. The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11).

My response: The glory on Moses’ face was fading away…not the law! Remember, Torah passes directly into the New Covenant (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; 10:15-16). The law has NOT faded away!

16. Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15).

My response: This is only true for those who are NOT “in Christ” (2 Cor. 3:14). Thus, we who are in Christ should obey the commands of the law, just as Paul instructed (1 Cor. 7:19).

17. The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

My response: The law justifies nobody apart from FAITH (Gal. 2:16). Thus, we who are justified by faith in Christ may FAITHFULLY obey the law, just as Scripture requires.

18. Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19).

My response: But Paul is ALIVE unto God (Gal. 2:19) AND God’s commandments (1 Cor. 7:19) which he tells us to obey.

19. The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

My response: NO. The law frustrates grace, unless FAITH (Gal. 2:20) is also present. It does NOT follow that Christians are free to disobey God’s law.

20. To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1).

My response: Rather, it would be “stupid” to go back to FAITHLESS law-obedience. That’s why we need faith (Gal. 3:2). It does not follow that Christians are free to oppose FAITHFUL law-obedience.

21. The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10).

My response: Rather, it curses all who FAITHLESSLY practice it and fail to do it perfectly. That’s why we need faith (Gal. 3:11). It does not follow that Christians are free to oppose FAITHFUL law-obedience.

22. The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12).

My response: Quite the contrary! Paul is merely affirming that FAITHLESS law-obedience has nothing to do with faith in Christ. Please read the very next verse (Hab. 2:4) Paul cites! It equates faith (Gr. “pistis)” with faithfulness (Heb. “emunah”, Hab. 2:4). And what is this way of “emunah”? TORAH! (See “emunah” in Ps. 119:30,86,138.)

23. The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13).

My response: Read carefully! Christ redeemed us from the CURSE (not from the law itself).

24. The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16).

My response: If that were true, then Christ would NOT uphold the law as the standard which determines our position in the coming kingdom. BUT, Christ DID uphold that very standard for us (Mt. 5:19), with frightening consequences for the religious among us who walk in opposition to that law (Mt. 7:21-23).

25. If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

My response: That’s why we need faith (Gal. 3:22). Should we (who are of faith) thus disobey God’s law? Of course not. Rather, our love for God requires obedience to that law (1 Jn. 5:3).

26. The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23).

My response: The law BEFORE FAITH (Gal. 3:23) was a prison. It does not follow that Christians are now free to oppose FAITHFUL law-obedience.

27. The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24).

My response: If that were true, then we MUST disobey EVERY law God ever issued! Of course this is not Paul’s position. Rather, Paul uses an allegory to convey the preeminence of faith in God’s promise. Is this faith opposed to God’s law? Of course not. Rather, Jesus commands us to love God (Mt. 22:37, citing Dt. 6), and how does Dt. 6 require that we love God? Through OBEDIENCE to the commands of the law (Dt. 6:25).

28. Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15).

My response: Christ abolished the human “dogma” (Eph. 2:15) separating Jew from Gentile, not the Law of God.

29. Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8).

My response: Yes…law without knowing the Messiah is like”skubalon”. It does not follow that law WITH Messiah is like “skubalon”.

30. The law…was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10).

My response: Yes…”do not kill” is made as a prohibition against people who might want to consider killing. So shall righteous Christians therefore kill? Of course not. We should not disobey the law, even though many things in the law pertain to prohibition of evil actions we would never even dream of doing. That’s why Paul obeyed the law (Ac. 24:14), and expects us to do the same (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9).

31. The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19).

My response: Yes, the law will pass away in the future…but it has NOT yet passed away. Rather, it is merely “ready to pass away” (Heb. 8:13). Thus, it is still in force, in conjunction with the inauguration of the New Covenant.

32. God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8).

My response: AND, the Torah (Jer. 31:33) passes directly into this New Covenant! So let’s stop pretending it no longer applies to us Christians.

33. It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13).

My response: Yes! READY to vanish…implying it had NOT yet vanished as of the New-Covenant-era time of the writing of Hebrews. It follows that Heb. 8:13 confirms my position, and disconfirms yours.

34. It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1).

My response: Note the PRESENT TENSE (“has a shadow”). Thus, the shadow CONTINUES (present tense) to function, despite its imperfections.

CONCLUSION: Will you kindly address these objections to your position?

If not, then I urge you to grow in faithful obedience to the law which the Father, Son, Spirit, Law, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Apostles, and Epistles all compel us to obey, in conjunction with faith in our Messiah.

Thank you.

BibleGuy

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[h=1]Romans 3:19-20[SUP] - [/SUP]Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.[/h]

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[h=1]Galatians 3:11-12[SUP] - [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[/h]

Scriptureplz · May 21, 2016

“And by him all that believe are justified from ALL things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses” (Acts 13:39).

BibleGuy · May 21, 2016

Hello eternally-gratefull,

You wrote: "Seems like one verse says it all...", citing Rom. 6:14.

However, you did not address the point I raised concerning Rom. 6:15 and Paul's definition of sin.

So, you haven't really dealt with this issue adequately.

And, I could just as easily quote Mt. 5:19, claiming: "seems like this verse says it all..."

So, what shall we do?

Let's look at what Paul says in that very same breath (Rom. 6:15), where Paul tells us to NOT sin.

Now, sin (for Paul) is Torah-violation (Rom. 3:20; 7:7).

So, it follows that even though we are not under the law (in the technical sense Paul addresses in Rom. 6:14), we are nevertheless told by Paul to NOT SIN, i.e., NOT VIOLATE TORAH, i.e., OBEY TORAH.

Right?

blessings...
BibleGuy

BibleGuy · May 21, 2016

Scriptureplz said:

Hello Scriptureplz,

Yes, we are justified by faith (not by law without faith).

Nevertheless, Paul obeyed law (Ac. 24:14) and expects us to imitate that obedience (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9).

So, do you seek to obey the law, as Paul instructed and modeled?

Or at least, do you intend to address the several dozen Scripturally-grounded objections I've raised against your position?

blessings...
BibleGuy

Scriptureplz · May 21, 2016

BibleGuy said:

I can't teach a teacher, and I have no time for your debate. God Bless

Grace through faith AND the law dont mix?

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