Verse for "once saved always saved"?

[Chester]

1 Peter 1:5-7
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

John 10:28-29

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


OSAS is the New International Standard English Version of what these scriptures are saying.

I Peter 1:5-7: "who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation . . ."
Who is the "who" in the verse? those who believe at a point in time? who continue to believe? all the readers of I Peter?
What does "through faith" mean? does it apply if I lose faith? Can I lose faith?
What does "salvation" mean? is it equivalent to heaven? or does it mean more or less than that? which aspect of salvation is meant?

This verse can be interpreted to mean OSAS, but it doesn't say it outrightly. - or am I missing something?

Hebrews 12:2 - "looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith"
Again, a powerful verse - but it doesn't say "once saved always saved" - Here it could mean simply that the Christian faith was his idea (he started it) and that He completed the plan (of redemption) (finisher).


Again, this verse can be interpreted to mean OSAS, but it doesn't say it outrightly. - or am I missing something?


John 10:28 - "I give unto them eternal life"
From the context here the "them" is my "sheep". Who are "his sheep"? Those who believe once? Those who continue to believe? those who believe and do good works? those who go to the right church?
I think we may (and do!) argue who the sheep are - and can use the context to "prove our point", but the verse itself doesn't directly say? or am I missing something?

The verse also says: "I give them eternal life" - but the verse doesn't say that God might/could take this eternal life away from them. You can argue that you can't take something 'eternal" away - and that might be a good argument - but it is still an argument based on your Scriptural understanding of "eternal"

 

[Chester]

[SUP]27 [/SUP]Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

[SUP]37 [/SUP]All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


[SUP]47 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]I am that bread of life.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

[SUP]51 [/SUP]I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.


[SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

[SUP]55 [/SUP]For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
[SUP]56 [/SUP]He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

[SUP]57 [/SUP]As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
[SUP]58 [/SUP]This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.


Jesus equates eating and drinking with believing in him, Anyone who places their faiht in Christ, All these things Jesus promised to them.

If they are not granted, Jesus lied.

Please, I respect your opinion. I don't want to be difficult- just want to understand . . .

It feels to me like you are saying that if I do not agree with your interpretation of Jesus' words, I am calling Jesus a liar?

Or am I misinterpreting what you are trying to say?

(I have found it is easy to misinterpret others and I want to be careful here)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please, I respect your opinion. I don't want to be difficult- just want to understand . . .

It feels to me like you are saying that if I do not agree with your interpretation of Jesus' words, I am calling Jesus a liar?

Or am I misinterpreting what you are trying to say?

(I have found it is easy to misinterpret others and I want to be careful here)

No No, You did not understand me,,


I am just stating a fact, according to the passage

If I do not have all these things Jesus said I have, Because I trusted in him, Then Jesus lied.

If i hunger or thirst, If I die, If I am not risen on the last day, If I am not one with Christ, if I am cast aside,, Then Jesus lied. Plain and simple.

I can not tell you what to believe, Only how I believe.

 

[Chester]

No No, You did not understand me,,


I am just stating a fact, according to the passage

If I do not have all these things Jesus said I have, Because I trusted in him, Then Jesus lied.

If i hunger or thirst, If I die, If I am not risen on the last day, If I am not one with Christ, if I am cast aside,, Then Jesus lied. Plain and simple.

I can not tell you what to believe, Only how I believe.

OK, thanks. I think I understand.

So when you say "I am just stating a fact, according to the passage" you mean that this is what you interpret it to mean, but are not saying that if I am interpreting it otherwise that I am making God a liar.

You see this as your interpretation (but more than that - as the best one - and the one that makes the most sense from the passage, etc. - (and that if I had good common gospel Christian sense I would get "on board" with it too!

OK - got it! I like your enthusiasm and spirit - and how intense and personal and meaningful these words of Christ are to you!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK, thanks. I think I understand.

So when you say "I am just stating a fact, according to the passage" you mean that this is what you interpret it to mean, but are not saying that if I am interpreting it otherwise that I am making God a liar.

You see this as your interpretation (but more than that - as the best one - and the one that makes the most sense from the passage, etc. - (and that if I had good common gospel Christian sense I would get "on board" with it too!

OK - got it! I like your enthusiasm and spirit - and how intense and personal and meaningful these words of Christ are to you!

They are what keep us going everyday..

 

[Wall]

I've yet to see the verse that states God takes away salvation.

1 TIMOTHY 4 {1} Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Many scriptures can be found like this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 TIMOTHY 4 {1} Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Many scriptures can be found like this.

That does not say one loses salvation.

It sys in the latter days the churches will dwindle because many will depart from the faith. It has been happening in droves in the US for the past few decades..

 

[Wall]

That does not say one loses salvation.

Originally Posted by Wall

1 TIMOTHY 4 {1} Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Many scriptures can be found like this.

You are SAVED by grace through faith. Scripture above says some shall depart from that faith.

Personally i dont believe anyone is saved until the return of Christ. So...OSAS!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by Wall

1 TIMOTHY 4 {1} Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Many scriptures can be found like this.

You are SAVED by grace through faith. Scripture above says some shall depart from that faith.

Personally i dont believe anyone is saved until the return of Christ. So...OSAS!

Then Paul lied when he said we have been saved. (titus 3: 5 and many other passages)

faith there is called the word of faith, the gospel or the truth.

Many have departed the faith (true gospel churches). It never said they had living or salvic faith.. Context rules.

and again, Look at the last few decades, and we see the true churches getting smaller, and the false churches getting bigger, why? many are departing the faith. Prophesy is being fulfilled. But people are not losing salvation, they never had it, or as John said, they never would have departed.

 

[Chester]

Then Paul lied when he said we have been saved. (titus 3: 5 and many other passages)

faith there is called the word of faith, the gospel or the truth.

Many have departed the faith (true gospel churches). It never said they had living or salvic faith.. Context rules.

and again, Look at the last few decades, and we see the true churches getting smaller, and the false churches getting bigger, why? many are departing the faith. Prophesy is being fulfilled. But people are not losing salvation, they never had it, or as John said, they never would have departed.

I agree that I Timothy 4:1 - "some shall depart from the faith" - is not a clear verse to prove that some "backslide". As you point out there are many different kinds (degrees) of faith? Which one here? "Context" - Yes, and then we may disagree on interpretation.

Let's keep a clear distinction between clear Scripture and a person's interpretation.

 

[Grandpa]

I Peter 1:5-7: "who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation . . ."
Who is the "who" in the verse? those who believe at a point in time? who continue to believe? all the readers of I Peter?
What does "through faith" mean? does it apply if I lose faith? Can I lose faith?
What does "salvation" mean? is it equivalent to heaven? or does it mean more or less than that? which aspect of salvation is meant?

This verse can be interpreted to mean OSAS, but it doesn't say it outrightly. - or am I missing something?

Hebrews 12:2 - "looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith"
Again, a powerful verse - but it doesn't say "once saved always saved" - Here it could mean simply that the Christian faith was his idea (he started it) and that He completed the plan (of redemption) (finisher).


Again, this verse can be interpreted to mean OSAS, but it doesn't say it outrightly. - or am I missing something?


John 10:28 - "I give unto them eternal life"
From the context here the "them" is my "sheep". Who are "his sheep"? Those who believe once? Those who continue to believe? those who believe and do good works? those who go to the right church?
I think we may (and do!) argue who the sheep are - and can use the context to "prove our point", but the verse itself doesn't directly say? or am I missing something?

The verse also says: "I give them eternal life" - but the verse doesn't say that God might/could take this eternal life away from them. You can argue that you can't take something 'eternal" away - and that might be a good argument - but it is still an argument based on your Scriptural understanding of "eternal"

Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

 

[john832]

That does not say one loses salvation.

This one does...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away (One CANNOT fall away from something unless they belong to it), to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
Heb 6:8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

 

[Chester]

Oh! Oh! Now I think I may find myself in a difficult situation . . . .!!!!!

I have verses from both OSAS and non - OSAS people coming . . . (see posts 251,252)

I am not sure I can keep up anymore: My original question was is there a verse that clearly states "once saved, always saved"? Now I have people giving verses to prove the opposite side.

My conclusion is that no verse that is given is going to be conclusive on this issue. Both sides can shoot legitimate holes in any verse that is given to show that there are alternate viable interpretations. So though I myself have an opinion on the issue, the point I wanted to see when I started this thread is clearer than ever to me: "once saved always saved" is a doctrine derived from a study of applicable Scriptures and themes and principles.

It entered my mind to start another thread called: Verse to prove that a Christian can fall away or backslide? Hmmmm! I don't think I need to! Enough of you are ready with answers to any verse someone could give!

So, if neither side can be proved by one verse(s) - then what?

 

[Wall]

Then Paul lied when he said we have been saved. (titus 3: 5 and many other passages)

1 Corinthians 5:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So you think Paul is lying when he comes right out and says some are saved on The Day of the Lord {when Christ returns}

 

[RobbyEarl]

1 Corinthians 5:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So you think Paul is lying when he comes right out and says some are saved on The Day of the Lord {when Christ returns}

gees they are turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh just like the Prodigal son in hopes that they will return and many don't, read your bible people and not what some dude say's.

 

[john832]

1 Corinthians 5:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So you think Paul is lying when he comes right out and says some are saved on The Day of the Lord {when Christ returns}

Hello Wall, my friend, good to see you again.

 

[Wall]

Hello Wall, my friend, good to see you again.

Good to see you again. How ya been John832?

 

[Wall]

gees they are turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh just like the Prodigal son in hopes that they will return and many don't, read your bible people and not what some dude say's.

OK. Lets read what Peter says in our bible

1PETER1
[4] To AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto SALVATION READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.
[9] Receiving the END OF YOUR FAITH, EVEN THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST;
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Its not something that happens during the life time of a believer. Thats plain to see.....


An inheritance
Salvation revealed in the last time
End of your faith, EVEN THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS
Hope to the end
Grace brought at the revelation of Christ {we are saved by grace}
Being born again

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This one does...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away (One CANNOT fall away from something unless they belong to it), to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
Heb 6:8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

No it does not. I bolded a part in your quote you forgot to highlight. Look at those words.

Since when is "near to being cursed" and "being cursed" the same thing?

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Now, I understand, He may be near to be cursed, But another man was saved through fire.. Paul spoke of him also.

1 cor 3: [SUP]15 [/SUP]If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Here we have the burning, And one being saved through the fire. Same concept. One can not lose salvation, If they could, Christ needs to come die again for the sin which caused the one to lose salvation.

Hebrews is speaking against returning to the law. Why would you go back to law. If you could lose salvation (fall away) (something the law teaches) then you can;t be re-saved again, the law is useless to you..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh! Oh! Now I think I may find myself in a difficult situation . . . .!!!!!

I have verses from both OSAS and non - OSAS people coming . . . (see posts 251,252)

I am not sure I can keep up anymore: My original question was is there a verse that clearly states "once saved, always saved"? Now I have people giving verses to prove the opposite side.

My conclusion is that no verse that is given is going to be conclusive on this issue. Both sides can shoot legitimate holes in any verse that is given to show that there are alternate viable interpretations. So though I myself have an opinion on the issue, the point I wanted to see when I started this thread is clearer than ever to me: "once saved always saved" is a doctrine derived from a study of applicable Scriptures and themes and principles.

It entered my mind to start another thread called: Verse to prove that a Christian can fall away or backslide? Hmmmm! I don't think I need to! Enough of you are ready with answers to any verse someone could give!

So, if neither side can be proved by one verse(s) - then what?

Then Take Jesus at his word. As shown in John 6. Whoever believes in him will never die, Live forever, Has eternal life, etc etc. Also in John 3, Has eternal life, Not condemned.

Anti OSAS people do not have verses, they have contextual passages which are out of context which appear to support them, But do not..

I can take almost any verse of the bible and make a doctrine out of it, It will not make that doctrine a gospel truth.