Seducing spirits and doctrines of devils

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Sep 4, 2012
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Let's answer the first question I asked before you came up with a rabbit trail about the true gospel which Peter and Paul preached. We do have word-for-word accounts of what was said in them preaching about forgiveness.
I'm not going to play your game of continuing a discussion when you can't even support the claims that you make. It's pointless.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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Salvation is received by Grace and Faith. So how does obeying what Jesus says have anything to do with Salvation?

Again i see many people teaching Salvation by works.

Its Sanctification we receive by our works.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
What we are seeing here,and other threads is a collision of Grace and ordinances,or law.

Got a news flash for both sides.

We are saved UNCONDITIONALLY.

WE WALK OUT THIS FREE SALVATION IN HEAVENS PROTOCOL.

"if we walk in the light,as He is in the light we have fellowship one with another,and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses from all sin,if we walk in the light as He is in the light."

What was step one of the first church?

Doctrine? NO

Deliverance NO

Evangelism. NO

Ordinances. NO

It was EQUIPPING.

The anointing breaks the YOKE. Jesus knew the church WOULD NOT SURVIVE outside the anointing.

It was Pauls coveted prize,right behind JESUS,and his intimate walk.

There are 3 levels of anointing.

Salvation. Or leapers anointing.

Priestly. Or the baptism in the HOLY SPIRIT.

Kingly. Or both anointings,combined with intimacy,and OBEDIENCE.



Hi Popeye! It was a major blessing when I learned that we do not move in and out of the light. I Didn't ever question the interpretation until only recently. How can we be children of darkness when we are children of the day? We can't be both. And if the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin only if we walk in the light, then why do we need to be cleansed since we are in the light when we get cleansed? But that is for another thread. It's a wonderful discovery to know that we are always of the day and never of the night now that we are sons. All because of Jesus.

 
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ladylynn

Guest
What Jesus said takes preeminence over anything Peter or Paul said. IF the two conflict in your mind, then you have a problem understanding what Peter and Paul wrote.




The Holy Spirit is the Author of the Bible. "Men spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." (spake is how I remember it in the KJV) The Bible was not authored by men. Paul and Peter wrote what the Author instructed as they were moved by Him. They do not preach another Gospel nor do they contradict one another as God will not contradict Himself. 2 Peter 1:21

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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The Holy Spirit is the Author of the Bible. "Men spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." (spake is how I remember it in the KJV) The Bible was not authored by men. Paul and Peter wrote what the Author instructed as they were moved by Him. They do not preach another Gospel nor do they contradict one another as God will not contradict Himself. 2 Peter 1:21

[/B][SUP]21 [/SUP]For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
But Grace777x70 obviously does believe that Jesus and Peter/Paul do contradict each other because Jesus said to forgive to be forgiven, whereas he believes that Peter/Paul do not say that is necessary. Therefore, he has to give his interpretation of Peter/Pauls' writings preeminence over the plain words of Jesus, which he does by discarding Jesus' words by relegating them to the old covenant.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
This is just a ludicrous way of interpreting scripture. It's like saying we don't have to love because Peter and Paul didn't mention it when they told gentile pagans to repent and believe.

First repent, then believe, now (and for all time) obey Jesus' words.



We believers are responsible to "handle" the word of God wisely. To rightly divide it. We are called to do this and what was just outlined to you by Grace777 is how it's done. It takes faith in what the Holy Spirit says as He moves in our hearts. There is an understanding that causes us to see the contrasting verses and causes us to study and see that the Bible never contradicts but "illuminates" the believer to understand. (illuminates is not my word)

The beginning of the understanding is believing in the Love of God IN Christ. Seeing everything through the Cross (seeing Jesus) as we read. It's not ludicrous, it's the way God does it. Old covenant and new covenant. Can't mix law and grace. Must rightly divide them.

 
Sep 4, 2012
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We believers are responsible to "handle" the word of God wisely. To rightly divide it. We are called to do this and what was just outlined to you by Grace777 is how it's done. It takes faith in what the Holy Spirit says as He moves in our hearts. There is an understanding that causes us to see the contrasting verses and causes us to study and see that the Bible never contradicts but "illuminates" the believer to understand. (illuminates is not my word)

The beginning of the understanding is believing in the Love of God IN Christ. Seeing everything through the Cross (seeing Jesus) as we read. It's not ludicrous, it's the way God does it. Old covenant and new covenant. Can't mix law and grace. Must rightly divide them.
What you're referring to is no mystery to me. It's the dispensationalism of Free Grace theology that "right divides" the gospel of Christ into two gospels: one for the Jews under law in the old covenant (gospel of the kingdom) and one for the gentiles under the new covenant (gospel of grace). Heresy is all that is.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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And how is that different than what I'm saying?
because, you say that good works must done to maintain salvation. obedience comes FROM being saved, not CAUSES salvation.

as my pastor says, stop getting up everyday and looking up at God and asking " are we good? are we good? ". trust God that he is good, and go out and DO the good that He prepared for you to do.

try that attitude sometimes.
 
Feb 11, 2016
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Was it Augustine who said, no one was ever persuaded to love God because of harshness?
We love Him because of a great fear of judgement?
NO!
We love Him because He first loved us! Perfect love casts out fear.

All of the threads always wind up centering around the same exact thing, even though it might appear to be different things.
It's HOW you look at: If you love Me you will obey My commands.
One man sees this when he reads it: I must obey.
Another sees this: I muredered my husband in my heart for leaving his dirty socks and clothes all balled up on the floor. Lord, thank you that You have promised if I just believe and trust, you will see to this problem and I will obey You and stop murdering.

I think it comes down to the difference between WILL and MUST.
The "will" thinks, I don't know how He will accomplish this but I trust Him.
The "must" thinks, I will go to hell if I don't obey.

The first clearly sees their murder and so weeps at His grace and clings to Him as their only hope.
The second sees only outward murder as sin and so can bring the message of Gods judgement to others to get them to "straighten up and fly right."

This is how I have seen the threads, the difference between the posters. The first seems to be saying in his heart, Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.
The second seems to be saying in his heart, I want to help these others to not sin and become more like me so they will be saved.
I will say, I havent really read much of Augustine myself save bits and pieces of what others who might have read him share online.

But I am not sure what your post has to do with playfully adding a Barney video though unless you are all for it, in that case I would say, cool, Barney it is.

I'm actually kidding, I can only take so much syrupy sweet fakery

And the scriptures do show the different perceptions of various people listening in, and especially of that which persecutes Christ, or those in Christ, and lays in wait, travels in packs consulting together against both persons and the truth.

But as an observer I dont see the OP mirroring that kind behavior.

The scriptures bless me no matter what the topic, and I dont feel this death or judgment or condemnation coming through them at me as another seems to imply they are picking up. If you are in Christ why would you feel condemned by a topic on seducing spirits as the scriptures present them in various places? The same are spoken of throughout the scripture as by Christ, Paul and John. The harder topics seem to be an issue. I believe InSpirit just seems to bring in more to look at concerning these while there may be some others who seem to work harder at concealing them, holding them down or cutting them out. The only thing that comes to mind is that perhaps he fustrates that particular effort on their part? Maybe or maybe not, it might depend on who is (at the time) seeing this board has people of various protestant sects but that seems far more evident (to me) most of the time. Maybe its just certain of them who dont like these hard places discussed. But the apostles wrote of the things and this part of CC is for bible discussion part and less for the gift of gabbing about everything else under the sun.

I do not see the problem with his posting on the things he has studied and is sharing.

Thats all I have to say, God bless you
 
Sep 4, 2012
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because, you say that good works must done to maintain salvation. obedience comes FROM being saved, not CAUSES salvation.

as my pastor says, stop getting up everyday and looking up at God and asking " are we good? are we good? ". trust God that he is good, and go out and DO the good that He prepared for you to do.

try that attitude sometimes.
So you're saying that obedience is optional?
 
Jan 7, 2015
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Salvation is received by Grace and Faith. So how does obeying what Jesus says have anything to do with Salvation?
Grace reigns through faith, but a disobedient and unfaithful faith is no faith at all. And if we are saved by grace through faith, what happens if one turns back and falls away from the faith? The warnings are many and very clear, but many deny the testimony of the Spirit in order to cling to the doctrines of men and of devils, and in doing so they also deny the Truth and faith of Jesus Christ.

Psalm 78:56-60 "Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies:[SUP]57 [/SUP]But turned back, and dealt unfaithfully like their fathers: they were turned aside like a deceitful bow."

God's grace also reigns through righteousness, so if one is living in sin God's Grace is not reigning in their lives.


Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Your obedience to the faith according to the words of God proves you are a servant of righteousness, and not a servant of sin which leads to death.


Your own words and actions prove whom you serve. :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I'm not going to play your game of continuing a discussion when you can't even support the claims that you make. It's pointless.

Many of us on here have tried to show you the true gospel of the grace of Christ over 100x times so I sadly have to agree with you that it seems to be pointless.

At least the gospel is being preached to the viewers to see all the scriptures being used to show the beauty of our Lord's finished work for us and that we have the forgiveness of sins in Him.

But here are some posts to show what has been said in this thread compete with scriptures

post # 142..#146...#148...#163...#196...#204...#206......#209...#211...#214...#219...#221.....#224...#229...#232...#239...#240...

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...g-spirits-doctrines-devils-8.html#post2639584
 
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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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So you're saying that obedience is optional?
no , I am not. I suspected you would not be able to receive what I said, you are to worried about a " fruit checker" than to actually TRUST GOD and do good works.

you insist on " what about me, where's my part in my salvation, I have to do something to help Jesus." bad attitude, needs to change.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
But Grace777x70 obviously does believe that Jesus and Peter/Paul do contradict each other because Jesus said to forgive to be forgiven, whereas he believes that Peter/Paul do not say that is necessary. Therefore, he has to give his interpretation of Peter/Pauls' writings preeminence over the plain words of Jesus, which he does by discarding Jesus' words by relegating them to the old covenant.



Not at all. He knows the Bible does not contradict itself especially in the matter of redemption it is very clear. If there is what seems to be a contradiction, it is only because we have not rightly divided it yet.

Rule of thumb is to know God's word will never contradict and to hold to that. Grace777 is clearly trying to show you that there are covenants and each one has a condition. If you mix them and try to follow old covenant while you are in the new covenant you will not understand a clear teaching in the Bible for the Christian today. You keep denying there is a difference in the conditions of these covenants.

The covenant of law told man what was required of him to be right with God. The new covenant of grace shows us what God did so that man could be right with God. Go from there.

 
Sep 4, 2012
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Many of us on here have tried to show you the true gospel of the grace of Christ over 100x times so I sadly have to agree with you that it seems to be pointless.

At least the gospel is being preached to the viewers to see all the scriptures being used to show the beauty of our Lord's finished work for us and that we have the forgiveness of sins in Him.

But here are some posts to show what has been said in this thread compete with scriptures

post # 142..#146...#148...#163...#196...#204...#206...#209...#211...#214...#219...#221...#224...#229...#232...#239...#240...

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...g-spirits-doctrines-devils-8.html#post2639584[/B]
Well let's make sure that we don't forget that you made this claim, and cannot scripturally support it. Therefore, it is only your opinion (best case).

There is no "conditional" forgiveness which is contingent on us forgiving first in the New Covenant which started after the Cross and Jesus fulfilled the law for us.

It's anti-the gospel. It is however 100% the law that we must forgive first in order to receive forgiveness in the law.
There's absolutely nothing in the law that says forgiveness was dependent upon forgiving others (like it is in the new covenant). I know because I've studied it.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
What you're referring to is no mystery to me. It's the dispensationalism of Free Grace theology that "right divides" the gospel of Christ into two gospels: one for the Jews under law in the old covenant (gospel of the kingdom) and one for the gentiles under the new covenant (gospel of grace). Heresy is all that is.
a

Not heresy HRFTD, it is Bible. There is only one Gospel. There are different covenant requirements. Until you come around to this fact, you will not understand salvation. It takes the Holy Spirit to understand grace. To actually trust in the fact that God loves you enough to do all that is needed in order for you to be saved from your sin.

This is a major leap of faith that all believers have taken. Letting go of your own ability and grasping a hold of Jesus. It is not Jesus saves with a bit of help from me. Jesus saves 100% and then goes with us all the way. He is not only the Author but the Finisher of our faith. It is amazing how it all works out clearly in Scripture. He begins it and He ends it. He is the Alpha and the Omega., the beginning and the end. In all matters.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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no , I am not. I suspected you would not be able to receive what I said, you are to worried about a " fruit checker" than to actually TRUST GOD and do good works.

you insist on " what about me, where's my part in my salvation, I have to do something to help Jesus." bad attitude, needs to change.
Does it really matter what someone's motivation is for being obedient? GOD is well pleased when we don't sin. Period. People do the boss' will because they don't want to lose their job, not to get the job (be saved). They already have a job and don't want to lose it, so they obey the boss. Pretty simple concept.

btw, the chief fruit inspector taught his disciples to be fruit checkers - by their fruits ye shall know them - so there's nothing wrong with that.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Not heresy HRFTD, it is Bible. There is only one Gospel. There are different covenant requirements. Until you come around to this fact, you will not understand salvation.
One gospel, but different covenant requirements? Please explain that.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
If so you could wrap it this way,

Grace is for (the optional) obedience of the faith
The obedience of faith is "believing" and "trusting" in the finished work of Jesus for every part of our salvation. From beginning to end. Jesus is made our redemption and our sanctification and justification.
1 Cor.1:30
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

The fruits of the spirit are not called the fruits of the flesh are they? Think about that for a moment.