Have the New Testament Charismatic gifts ceased?

[notuptome]

I guess the question has no definite answer.

Or, perhaps, it has two answers: 1. The gifts remain today -or- 2. The gifts have ceased.

It makes more sense, to me, that the gifts remain and "perfection" is not reached until Heaven.

That is the outcome of using an incorrect definition of the word perfect. You are applying it in an English context where in the scripture it has a Greek context which is more specific yet accounts for more variables. The English translation drifts from the original intent.

No problem since it's only three signs that ended not all the gifts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Charismatics always run away when they are beaten

A lot more charity would be in order.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. 24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.25And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signsshall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

John 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Have you received the Holy Ghost , since you believed ? For the Promise is unto you and and all that is afar off, even as many as the LORD our GOD shall call (Acts 2:37-39).

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Shalom.

 

[wolfwint]

The Bible clearly teaches the second blessing, The first being the rebirth, and the second being the baptism in the Holy Ghost, as I have proved by scriptures.
You are going by your own opinions rather than what the Bible says.
Please note, I have given scriptures to prove that the Baptism in the Holy Ghost is a separate experience, whereas, You haven't given one scripture that say there aren't two experiences.

I know the gifts and the power are still in the Church today, and so are tongues, as nowhere does the Bible say they will cease this side of eternity, And Paul tells when they will cease, 1 Cor 13: 8, When we know as we are known, when we no more see through a dark glass, when we see Jesus face to face.

Brother what you have written is no proof. It is your way to interprete the scripture. You useing the verses how you need it to suply your doctrine. Also you are ignoring the fact that you cant find an evidence in history. Of course its not the bible, but if you would be right, you would find it in the teachings of the past sholars (before 1900). And sorry the baptising with the Holy Spirit as second event is not taught in the bible. You have to create this.
Also you ignore the fact, that with your doctrine you stamp all christians before 1900 and which are non charismatic/pentecostal to imperfekt christians, because according your theory they are not equipped for the ministriy.
I only can say this is a false doctrine. Believers getting the gifts when they are born again, according the Holy Spirit gives it. And they get gifts when the Lord gives them a task for to do.
That my meaning and i suppose we come not togehter in this.

 

[valiant]

Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. 24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.25And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Correct. The Holy Spirit only came on them ONCE, ,once the Apostles had accepted the work was of God. This was so they would not see their church as separate from the Apostles.,

Acts 9:17

And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Paul had not received the Holy Spirit before this,

Acts 10:44

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

This was their first reception of the Holy Spirit,

Acts 11:15

And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

this confirms they received the Spirit at conversion. They spoke in tongues as evidence that it was the same as at Pentecost.,

Acts 15:8

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Again it was their first reception of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19:1

And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

These were disciples of John who did not even know about the Spirit. Paul accepted them into the church and they received the Holy Spirit for the FIRST time. They spoke in tongues identifying them with Pentecost. It was important that disciples of John around the world had made clear to them that they had to join the Apostolic church.

It is noteworthy that this and Cornelius band are the only examples of speaking in tongues apart from Pentecost,

Acts 1:4

And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

This was a unique event,. The infusion of the Holy Spirit on the whole church at its inception. It was the fulfilment of prophecy. (Is 44.1-5; Joel 2)

Mark 16:16

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signsshall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

this is a doubtful late text not found in the earliest manuscripts

You shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, For the Promise is unto you and and all that is afar off, even as many as the LORD our GOD shall call (Acts 2:37-39).

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Both are evidence that the gift of the Holy Spirit is given at conversion (rebirth).

 

[RickyZ]

I've always believed that you are baptized in the Spirit at conversion (it came later in Acts because up until then it wasn't really available). What many consider now to be a later (post-conversion) baptism is really the first time you allow that which is already in you to flow thru you to the outside (like releasing the floodgates on water already stored within the dam).

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Valiant, you need to go back and read my post #410, #411 and #412. This is the recorded gospel message being put into action. Mark 16:17 is just as much the gospel as anything else, it does not matter if unbelievers and the catholic church has removed those verses from their version of the gospel (Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus). The textus receptus (The received text) is the far majority of the gospel text that has been found all over the world in thousands of copies which includes it all and is also what the King James Version of the bible is translated from.

John 14:12 also directly supports mark 16:17.


12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greaterworks than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

You need to go back and read my posts and see what was done by the Apostles and the disciples in the book of Acts(action).

 

[CS1]

I've always believed that you are baptized in the Spirit at conversion (it came later in Acts because up until then it wasn't really available). What many consider now to be a later (post-conversion) baptism is really the first time you allow that which is already in you to flow thru you to the outside (like releasing the floodgates on water already stored within the dam).

rickyz what do you think about the Spirit coming into you then empowering you ? same Spirit another work ?

 

[RickyZ]

The Sprit comes into you upon conversion. The Spirit empowers you when you let Him.

Ie, all Christians have the Holy Spirit within them. But not all Christians allow the Holy Spirit to empower them.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

The reason people have not received the baptism of Fire with evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance is because they have shown the wrong belief.

John 14:15-27 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give youanother Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shallbe in you.18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make ourabode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which isthe Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Now it is the grace of God through Faith that leads us to Christ, many are called but Few are chosen (Matt 22:14). Read the parable of the sower (Matt 13:19-23). Shalom.

 

[wincam]

God tells us to
Covet the gifts, 1 Cor 12: 31.
Desire them, 1 Cor 14: 1.
Be zealous for them, 1 Cor 14: 12.

it is here as elsewhere a grave mistake to assert or insist that God tells us when in fact it is Paul that tells the early Corinthians as far as I read and interpret it - btw would someone like to explain 14:18 - wincam

 

[1ofthem]

it is here as elsewhere a grave mistake to assert or insist that God tells us when in fact it is Paul that tells the early Corinthians as far as I read and interpret it - btw would someone like to explain 14:18 - wincam

2 Timothy 3: 16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

We have to eat the whole thing. We can't take what we like and spit out what we don't.

We cannot add to or take away from the word of God. So I always try to pray to God and ask him for understanding of everything in the Word of God. I don't want to be found leaving out or adding to anything. So I always just look unto the Lord. If I don't understand something I pray about it, and if I still don't understand I just keep praying about it, but I don't say anything bad about it because I do fear God. I don't ever want to be found saying anything bad about his words or ways.

I will admit I only know in part right now. God has not made everything perfectly clear for me right now. But when we see Jesus face to face we will know all things. So that is why I don't confess to know all now, and that's why I don't say anything bad about what I don't understand.

I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Ghost and every word in the Bible. It is real and I have been witness to so much that I couldn't back off from it now even if I tried. The gifts and the callings are without repentance. God has made me a believer.

 

[popeye]

Brother what you have written is no proof. It is your way to interprete the scripture. You useing the verses how you need it to suply your doctrine. Also you are ignoring the fact that you cant find an evidence in history. Of course its not the bible, but if you would be right, you would find it in the teachings of the past sholars (before 1900). And sorry the baptising with the Holy Spirit as second event is not taught in the bible. You have to create this.
Also you ignore the fact, that with your doctrine you stamp all christians before 1900 and which are non charismatic/pentecostal to imperfekt christians, because according your theory they are not equipped for the ministriy.
I only can say this is a false doctrine. Believers getting the gifts when they are born again, according the Holy Spirit gives it. And they get gifts when the Lord gives them a task for to do.
That my meaning and i suppose we come not togehter in this.

Whoever taught you that is a deciever.

you did not and can not conclude that from a bible study.

 

[popeye]

rickyz what do you think about the Spirit coming into you then empowering you ? same Spirit another work ?

Frame that in the example of Jesus' baptism.

The HS came upon a saved human.

 

[popeye]

it is here as elsewhere a grave mistake to assert or insist that God tells us when in fact it is Paul that tells the early Corinthians as far as I read and interpret it - btw would someone like to explain 14:18 - wincam

grave mistake would be separating God from his word..

 

[popeye]

Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. 24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.25And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signsshall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

John 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Have you received the Holy Ghost , since you believed ? For the Promise is unto you and and all that is afar off, even as many as the LORD our GOD shall call (Acts 2:37-39).

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Shalom.

yes,there is clearly a second work after conversion.

Notice none of the cessationist experts will go there with you.

My,my ,that pesky bible.

 

[popeye]

Originally Posted by notuptome
That which we know we know through the word of God. Paul only had part of the word of God. The early church preached Christ from the OT scriptures because the NT was not perfect as in complete.

You still wiggle and you still deny. Christianity is all about Christ and nothing about men. Pentecostals and charismatics are all about self and what they demand God do for them. Just like the two malefactors crucified with Christ the one mocking Jesus and trying to manipulate Him the other only seeking His mercy. Well you know the outcome.

The cross is half of the gospel.

Your statement of faith that you piously laid out is a denial of power.

You seek a pious cross centered all encompassing truth,but you deny our verses or their validity.

my experience is VALIDATED by the verses you ignore.

I got a news flash for you. Jesus is not in the tomb. He is resurrected in power.

Jesus on the cross is the lamb of God. Jesus RESURRECTED is our high priest.

You have championed the lamb and rejected the priest.

 

[popeye]

some points i want add to my posts
1. You can only come to the second baptising with the Holy Spirit if you create an own theologie about that.

Since verses have been posted that show you do not know what you are talking about,how about you either apologise for heresy,or study a real bible if you own one?

 

[popeye]

If you say so.

The three sign gifts ended. 1 Cor 13:8

The obsession of casting out demons is really a distraction from the gospel. Lead a soul to Christ and the demons lose their influence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Oh,I see.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]So you do reserve "knowledge",for ,pray tell,some profound reason.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]You got motive written all over that one. Pick and choose what ceased and what remained.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Ridiculous.[/FONT]

 

[popeye]

Originally Posted by popeye
There are only 2 powers. 1)Jesus,2)the devil

The devil CAN NOT answer a prayer to Jesus.

mat 7;6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

luke 11;11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.
16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.


17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

See that? Your primise you have been taught is WITHOUT MERIT.

Jesus even SHOWED YOU ,that that premise is hogwash.

Here it is again from a different angle;
mark 3;24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Again the ENTIRE BASIS for your premise is destroyed.

If you say so.

The three sign gifts ended. 1 Cor 13:8

The obsession of casting out demons is really a distraction from the gospel. Lead a soul to Christ and the demons lose their influence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I showed you,that only God answers ,when we pray for the infilling of the HS,therefore destroying your unbiblical assumptions,and you say "if you say so"?