What Paul taught other than romans 8:1 lol

[followjesus]

"Hath any inheritance" Does that really sound like salvation to you? It sounds like....inheritance to me, rewards. It says any inheritance IN the kingdom of God.

You go from one extreme to the other. NO ONE on this board is stating that obedience is not important or has any bearing on the Christian. It does. It has HUGE importance, in this life and in eternity. But my justification comes from the faith of Jesus Christ and not how I live out my individual faith. Not to be ugly, but you're Bible doesn't even have that in it. You spoke negatively about the KJV earlier and yet it's the only Bible that gets that right. That my friend is HUGE!

you don't see the same as has and hath? lol. same word frind has any inheritance, and hath any inheritance. same sentence. and No, I have never spoken ill of the kjv in my life, I began with it and always check the niv against it actually.i just don't speak as it is written I don't use old English words. and our inheritance is eternal life.


matthew 25:31-46 "“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your INHERITANCE, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


notice what the judgement is based upon ? what the people did. did they Love the other people? some did and inherit eternal Life, some didn't and inherit eternal punishment? all believed in His name. Jesus words.



matthew 7:21-23 "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

again they believed in His name, they prophesied, and drove out demons, what are they judged upon? whether they DID the will of God, or DID evil. its really not worth debating with the endoctrinated folk any further, some will always argue that doing anything is somehow the wrong thing, I will never close my eyes and buy that one. Gods word is way to clear. Has been since the beginning of creation and will be until the end. There is a judgement day, our deeds will be what we are judged by, every word we speak, every action we do. even what we refuse to do is part of our judgement. its not a mercyme song, its Gods word we trust in. to deny the judgement coming, is basically to say God is lying, something I would never ever evvver be willing to do. Christians are going to stand before the throne and their deeds and words will be laid out. some who say but I said I believed! will sadly and forever be lost. its just a fact, just the truth. we all have a choice when temtation comes those who are born of Gods spirit, have the power to turn and do right.

 

[posthuman]

Yet the Corinthian believers were living worldly, carnal lives and the Holy Spirit through Paul told them that they were washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Holy Spirit. Their worldly living did not undo the salvation they received through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

this is really brought out in this verse, i think:

Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump,
as you really are unleavened.
For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
(1 Corinthians 5:7)​

we really are unleavened.

that is why Paul, in the first injunctive statement of the entire epistle to the Romans, says

So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin
and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
(Romans 6:11)​

he has spent a little over 5 chapters laying out the truth, culminating in the fact that we have already died in Christ and are made alive in Him also -- a fact he takes great care to state repeatedly in chapter 6, because it is by no means obvious to the believer by his own experience -- and now the first time he says we should "do" something in the entire book, what he instructs us to do is to consider ourselves already dead to sin and alive to God. not to "crucify ourselves" but to realize and act as though we are already crucified with Him and already raised​ with Him in spirit, if not yet in the body.

this is a thing that has already happened -- we really are unleavened, therefore purge out the old leaven.

this purging isn't what makes us "unleavened" -- the imputation of Christ's righteousness to us is what makes us clean. we are "already clean by the words" He has spoken to us, which we believed. ((in re: John 15:3))

 

[posthuman]

Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump,
as you really are unleavened.
For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
(1 Corinthians 5:7)​

we really are unleavened.

we need to be "a new lump"

i say to you, renew thy lumpiness, brethren! ​

 

[followjesus]

this is really brought out in this verse, i think:

Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump,
as you really are unleavened.
For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
(1 Corinthians 5:7)​

we really are unleavened.

that is why Paul, in the first injunctive statement of the entire epistle to the Romans, says

So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin
and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
(Romans 6:11)​

he has spent a little over 5 chapters laying out the truth, culminating in the fact that we have already died in Christ and are made alive in Him also -- a fact he takes great care to state repeatedly in chapter 6, because it is by no means obvious to the believer by his own experience -- and now the first time he says we should "do" something in the entire book, what he instructs us to do is to consider ourselves already dead to sin and alive to God. not to "crucify ourselves" but to realize and act as though we are already crucified with Him and already raised​ with Him in spirit, if not yet in the body.

this is a thing that has already happened -- we really are unleavened, therefore purge out the old leaven.

this purging isn't what makes us "unleavened" -- the imputation of Christ's righteousness to us is what makes us clean. we are "already clean by the words" He has spoken to us, which we believed. ((in re: John 15:3))

see now I can really see something in your words and grasp of romans good good stuff. but chapter 6 is only the 6th chapter. look at 7 now coming from that thinking, youll see paul go back again into the example of marriage and how we died as a spouse dies to the Law, and that's how we are freed from the law. again by dying to our "spouse" which formerly was the law. in order that we belong to Jesus, for the purpose of "bearing fruit" remembering that we actually aren't fruit trees, but new born humans now. notice how he constantly refers to "when we were controlled by the sinful nature" and by dying to what once had bound us the law....

then as we were saying earlier, he says certainly the law is not sin, tells us its purpose tells us without law, sin is dead. THEN you should see what I was saying in v 7:9-24. another again backstep really by paul explaining why we needed to die to the law and how it had our spirit bound in a constant war with our flesh, so that inside we wanted to do right, but were bound by the flesh. then the answer? in chapter 8...v 3 shopws us the law had no power to overcome sin. So God sent Jesus to condemn the sin in us ( that under law struggled against us making us a prisoner to sin and death) then from v 5-13 we see now that we are free in this way, the freedom is to live righteously by simply Living or acting in the "spirit" true stuff there and freedom. But not freedom to sin, but freedom to be free from sins control, or the power given through the atonement, to live upright Godly lives.


I don't know if this makes sense to you, I just liked what you were talking about in the first 6 chapters. this is why paul is so mistakenly understood by many, he rambles and makes His point in profound ways. repeatedly. these same things are taught in several of His letters. condensed as romans is more of a foundation of these things. but colossians 2 and 3, have a great compounded version of it. and it is repeated in his letters in different wording. Pauls main purpose was to reveal the power of Jesus atonement that we died and are actually raised with Him to newness of Life. or born again. this is the power of the man on the cross and who walked from the empty tomb, the power of faith in Him, for us to be made new in truth.

No longer sinners, but new and right before God, fully capable to follow righteousness, and be dead to sin that it has no more power over us to control our behavior. this is the teaching that sets sinners free. the thing that Gives new Life are the words of Jesus. His words "are spirit and life" we die and become aware of the power through pauls revelations. we are raised in the image of Jesus by learning and following Jesus words or teachings, or commands however one puts it. Jesus is now the one we are married to as Paul says in romans 7. we died to the old law, so that we belong to the one who died for us. Our death is through the atonement, our new life is through knowing were new and learning Jesus words. in this there is freedom and power and new life. obedience to Jesus is life, the law was and is and can only be death to the sinner. Jesus is life for the new man.

 

[miknik5]

Let's not forget Romans 10 because that should at least clear up the issue of Paul's view on the righteousness which is of faith.

 

[Scriptureplz]

Let's not forget Romans 10 because that should at least clear up the issue of Paul's view on the righteousness which is of faith.

Amen!

[h=1]Romans 10:1-4 (KJV)[/h] 10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[Scriptureplz]

you don't see the same as has and hath? lol. same word frind has any inheritance, and hath any inheritance. same sentence. and No, I have never spoken ill of the kjv in my life, I began with it and always check the niv against it actually.i just don't speak as it is written I don't use old English words. and our inheritance is eternal life.


matthew 25:31-46 "“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your INHERITANCE, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


notice what the judgement is based upon ? what the people did. did they Love the other people? some did and inherit eternal Life, some didn't and inherit eternal punishment? all believed in His name. Jesus words.



matthew 7:21-23 "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

again they believed in His name, they prophesied, and drove out demons, what are they judged upon? whether they DID the will of God, or DID evil. its really not worth debating with the endoctrinated folk any further, some will always argue that doing anything is somehow the wrong thing, I will never close my eyes and buy that one. Gods word is way to clear. Has been since the beginning of creation and will be until the end. There is a judgement day, our deeds will be what we are judged by, every word we speak, every action we do. even what we refuse to do is part of our judgement. its not a mercyme song, its Gods word we trust in. to deny the judgement coming, is basically to say God is lying, something I would never ever evvver be willing to do. Christians are going to stand before the throne and their deeds and words will be laid out. some who say but I said I believed! will sadly and forever be lost. its just a fact, just the truth. we all have a choice when temtation comes those who are born of Gods spirit, have the power to turn and do right.

It's not the "doing anything" but trusting in anything to somehow earn salvation is what is being focused on. Unless we rely on Christ alone as the source of our salvation, we're not saved. This is why people stress by faith alone, and also to glorify God and not man.

 

[followjesus]

Let's not forget Romans 10 because that should at least clear up the issue of Paul's view on the righteousness which is of faith.

how do you all constantly separate faith and what you do by labeling it works lol. By faith Abraham obeyed God went to sacrifice Isaac, by faith noah BUILT the ark, By faith abel brough the better sacrifice, Abraham the man of faith the man through whom the covenant of faith was obeedient in all things after receiving the promise. yeah, its by faith, FAITH WITHOUT ACTION IS A THOUGHT. saying "I'm righteous by faith" and living a sinful life is no more than a lie. saying as many things as you want is not faith. Trust is always in what you do.

If you trust Jesus like you all are saying you are counting fully on Jesus, why do you not look at His words and do what he is saying to do? where is the faith in saying things honestly faith is not a thought not a word. faith is the step the action. honestly man some of the things your little group says is circular foolishness to me. Faith look into what faith actually is, if you want to be like Abraham and know what faith is look at the fact that He believed whatever God said to Him, so if God said do this, He did it. that's what faith is, what faith will always, always be. I understand the deception your in, hold onto it all you wish, think faith is empty and a wish. it doesn't affect my life. I'm not in the least afraid to do what God says, I have faith, am full of faith, if God says do this, I do it because I have faith in His word. The very thing your all saying. you say it , ill go do it. faith is what you do.

I really just have no interest in discussing anything with the grace grace crowd I purposely stay off those threads, its nothing of value to myself to shout grace grace to cure my problems. id rather just do what God says and be blessed Like He says to do lol. I already know it works, been doing it for years now, been blessed in great abundance for years now, been praising Jesus by doing what He says for years now, he doesn't fail His followers. He is worthy, to actually do what HE clearly is saying TO DO. you guys can argue other new Christians and maybe sway them into this foolishness. I'm not movable, sorry, I see just a circle in the desert in trying to not do anything and call it faith.


Put your eyes on Jesus, do what HE IS SAYING TO DO, again, not me telling you to do anything, BUT YOUR LORD saying DO. that's where faith is, but if you prefer to imagine theres no punishment for sin, that's a choice. I guess it would make a person feel good to think God doesn't tell you clearly to repent, to put all you are into Him. pretend and imagine it affects me zero. I live to follow Jesus cuz He died to Love me and heal me from sin, for the VERY PURPOSE of doing those works you guys are always saying are prepared in advance FOR YOU TO DO. Its not on me to make you see either just like bruce, and any other person on earth. between you and Jesus. I see no value in continuing with you either. like I told bruce yesterday. I'm not willing to argue with you, to many differences in Truth and false doctrine. were not at all serving the same gospel,im not at all a humanist, or jp follower. don't believe saying nice things is actually building people up. just setting them up for a bad bad thing. I don't at all subscribe to your thinking, see no further value in going forward with you , bruce or any other human who is clinging to the false doctrines of somehow do nothing and magically be something someday, but don't DO, dooont DO. whatever you do doooont do what God says or your working for salvation hahaha your doctrines just go in a huge circle and its no more than a circle until you step into actual faith that, yeah...surprise obeys Gods word. Just like Abraham did, because He believed God, God said hes righteous, whats next???? God gave Abraham a directive, Abraham obeys. then God says " because you obeyed and because you didn't withhold your only son, I will bless all nations because of you"


faith and action are 1, faith with no action is a happy thought. but yeah, all by faith the faith of Abraham. Faith that ACTS upon the belief you claim, faith moves. BUT I'm done I see no reason for you guys or myself to continue on here. your doctrines will always be opposed to What I know. so have peaceful weeks.

 

[followjesus]

It's not the "doing anything" but trusting in anything to somehow earn salvation is what is being focused on. Unless we rely on Christ alone as the source of our salvation, we're not saved. This is why people stress by faith alone, and also to glorify God and not man.

the comment above was meant to reply to this one. faith without the action is a fantasy.

 

[miknik5]

How come you didn't mention Rahab's faith?

 

[miknik5]

I just want to remind you that it is very easy to pronounce and declare your faith just as it is very easy to do the works of the Kingdom of Light when you are walking in the Light...but when darkness comes...when trials and tribulations and tests of our faith that we profess are challenged...that is a whole different story.

All these that you pointed to with regards to Faith, heard GOD'S VOICE and did what HE told them to do..
Noah built an ark, still was a shadow of CHRIST
Abraham listened when GOD called him to sacrifice "his promised son", still was a shadow of CHRIST
Rahab did what the angels said...she marked her "house", called those who belonged to her in her "house" and did not go out.


It is very easy to sit around and talk about how much faith we have when there are no struggles.
Another thing completely to sit around and talk about how much faith we have in seasons of "job"...

When I said "active" works...I meant this idea that we can build to our stature in CHRIST as if we can amass to ourselves all these righteous works and present them before HIM on that day to say: Lord, Lord...look what I have done!

It's HIS BODY...HE already knows what HE has apportioned to each to do...and the one who knew their father's will and didn't do it is the one who will receive more stripes than the one who didn't know...

Therefore, do not boast in your works...HE gave them to you to do.
Do them as being done for HIS GLORY and for the building up of................................

ONE BODY...

Not many...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

the comment above was meant to reply to this one. faith without the action is a fantasy.

It's almost as if any works (even righteous ones) are considered evil, in much the same way that the material world was considered evil by a certain heretical group.

 

[miknik5]

It's almost as if any works (even righteous ones) are considered evil, in much in the same way that a certain heretical group viewed the material world as evil.

Never...but to claim one's works already is to take the focus off THE WORK of CHRIST and is, in a sense boasting before men and declaring oneself above other men...in our own eyes...

Can't we just do everything as being done for THE LORD and because of HIM...
We are told to be at peace with all men...and everything in moderation.

Or we can all remember what John said when they asked him what must we do...
Do what is right in a world that is far from righteous...

Just being 'holy/perfect' (as HE is holy), showing no partiality and not being selective in our light/love.

That's it...

 

[John146]

how do you all constantly separate faith and what you do by labeling it works lol. By faith Abraham obeyed God went to sacrifice Isaac, by faith noah BUILT the ark, By faith abel brough the better sacrifice, Abraham the man of faith the man through whom the covenant of faith was obeedient in all things after receiving the promise. yeah, its by faith, FAITH WITHOUT ACTION IS A THOUGHT. saying "I'm righteous by faith" and living a sinful life is no more than a lie. saying as many things as you want is not faith. Trust is always in what you do.

If you trust Jesus like you all are saying you are counting fully on Jesus, why do you not look at His words and do what he is saying to do? where is the faith in saying things honestly faith is not a thought not a word. faith is the step the action. honestly man some of the things your little group says is circular foolishness to me. Faith look into what faith actually is, if you want to be like Abraham and know what faith is look at the fact that He believed whatever God said to Him, so if God said do this, He did it. that's what faith is, what faith will always, always be. I understand the deception your in, hold onto it all you wish, think faith is empty and a wish. it doesn't affect my life. I'm not in the least afraid to do what God says, I have faith, am full of faith, if God says do this, I do it because I have faith in His word. The very thing your all saying. you say it , ill go do it. faith is what you do.

I really just have no interest in discussing anything with the grace grace crowd I purposely stay off those threads, its nothing of value to myself to shout grace grace to cure my problems. id rather just do what God says and be blessed Like He says to do lol. I already know it works, been doing it for years now, been blessed in great abundance for years now, been praising Jesus by doing what He says for years now, he doesn't fail His followers. He is worthy, to actually do what HE clearly is saying TO DO. you guys can argue other new Christians and maybe sway them into this foolishness. I'm not movable, sorry, I see just a circle in the desert in trying to not do anything and call it faith.


Put your eyes on Jesus, do what HE IS SAYING TO DO, again, not me telling you to do anything, BUT YOUR LORD saying DO. that's where faith is, but if you prefer to imagine theres no punishment for sin, that's a choice. I guess it would make a person feel good to think God doesn't tell you clearly to repent, to put all you are into Him. pretend and imagine it affects me zero. I live to follow Jesus cuz He died to Love me and heal me from sin, for the VERY PURPOSE of doing those works you guys are always saying are prepared in advance FOR YOU TO DO. Its not on me to make you see either just like bruce, and any other person on earth. between you and Jesus. I see no value in continuing with you either. like I told bruce yesterday. I'm not willing to argue with you, to many differences in Truth and false doctrine. were not at all serving the same gospel,im not at all a humanist, or jp follower. don't believe saying nice things is actually building people up. just setting them up for a bad bad thing. I don't at all subscribe to your thinking, see no further value in going forward with you , bruce or any other human who is clinging to the false doctrines of somehow do nothing and magically be something someday, but don't DO, dooont DO. whatever you do doooont do what God says or your working for salvation hahaha your doctrines just go in a huge circle and its no more than a circle until you step into actual faith that, yeah...surprise obeys Gods word. Just like Abraham did, because He believed God, God said hes righteous, whats next???? God gave Abraham a directive, Abraham obeys. then God says " because you obeyed and because you didn't withhold your only son, I will bless all nations because of you"


faith and action are 1, faith with no action is a happy thought. but yeah, all by faith the faith of Abraham. Faith that ACTS upon the belief you claim, faith moves. BUT I'm done I see no reason for you guys or myself to continue on here. your doctrines will always be opposed to What I know. so have peaceful weeks.

I'm glad I'm justified by the faith of Jesus Christ...the only true faith that remains faithful...our individual faith is the good works of obedience we do after we've been justified by Christ's faith upon believing the gospel. Christ's faith never waivers even when our individual faith does waiver, even yours Mr. followJesus.

 

[mailmandan]

matthew 25:31-46 "“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

The sheep are believers and the goats are unbelievers. There are no shoats.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your INHERITANCE, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

Descriptive of believers. You shall know them by their fruit.

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

Notice that these believers did not answer the Lord in the same way that these many people on that day will in Matthew 7:22 and receive those horrific words from the Lord in Matthew 7:23!

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

Descriptive of unbelievers. Without faith it's impossible to please God.

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

The unrighteous/unbelievers will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous/believers to eternal life.

notice what the judgement is based upon ? what the people did. did they Love the other people? some did and inherit eternal Life, some didn't and inherit eternal punishment? all believed in His name. Jesus words.

Who said the goats believed in His name? John 1:12 says - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. These goats neither received Him or were children of God, so obviously they did not truly believe in His name, although they may have believed certain things about Jesus. In James 2:19, we read that the devils believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation and neither did the goats, which explains their lack of good fruit. A bad tree produces bad fruit.

matthew 7:21-23 "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. These many people in Matthew 7:22 obviously did not truly believe in Him, although they believed in certain things about Him.

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

What were these many people trusting in for salvation? Lord, Lord, have WE not prophesied in your name? and in your name cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? These many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation.

They were trusting in their accomplishments/works to save them and not in CHRIST ALONE through faith. Jesus never knew them. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience which was stained with sin amounted to disobedience. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! They were self righteous!

again they believed in His name, they prophesied, and drove out demons, what are they judged upon? whether they DID the will of God, or DID evil.

If they truly believed in His name and were children of God, then Jesus would not have called them workers of iniquity/lawlessness. These many people believed in their works and not in Christ alone for salvation.

Good works are the fruit of salvation but not the root of it. It sounds like you have this backwards. Deeds and words give evidences for, or against a man being in a state of grace and righteousness. God knows our hearts and knows our motivation for why we do what we do. Certain people may even look like the real deal to others (like Judas Iscariot) but he was not fooling Jesus, who referred to him as an unclean devil! (John 6:71; 13:10-11).

 

[Scriptureplz]

the comment above was meant to reply to this one. faith without the action is a fantasy.

What I said was what the bible teaches. We cannot trust in works for salvation. I didn't say we would not have any good works, I said we do not trust in works for salvation.

Salvation is a free gift and if it is not received as such, there is no salvation. It's not what we trust in, but Who we trust that saves us!

 

[mailmandan]

What I said was what the bible teaches. We cannot trust in works for salvation. I didn't say we would not have any good works, I said we do not trust in works for salvation.

Salvation is a free gift and if it is not received as such, there is no salvation. It's not what we trust in, but Who we trust that saves us!

Amen! Either we are trusting 100% in Christ for salvation or else we are 100% lost.

 

[followjesus]

How come you didn't mention Rahab's faith?

you mean rahab who acted right by faith? when she took in the isrealites? probably because its all the same lesson Just as james puts it, just as Hebrews puts it. there is always an action tied to faith. faith is NOT an inward belief of no effect it is when the evidence is there OF the belief. rahab believed in God, that's why she DID what she did. a person can say I'm righteous because of Christ forever and ever. or a person can accept the righteousness that is there that truly does come by faith and act in it. 2 different things.

Faith with no action is useless its fa.....the ith comes when the action matches the belief. Paul did not ever teach people to do nothing. look simply at pauls words of Himself. He labored more than all, he pressed on, he ran the race, fought the fight. the issue isn't paul at all its people lacking the spirit that understands paul. Faith will give righteousness free gift, but it isn't an invisable righteousness that we just say is there. when you begin in romans you are supposed to see " I died with Christ, and I am new, raised again in His righteousness, fully able and capable of doing what I'm supposed to do." all because of Grace and Faith in Jesus. why does paul say all the things about doing doing doing. test yourselves to see if you are in the faith? This grace doctrine is holding people down and it is opposite Jesus. its clever Just like the serpent in eden. all false doctrines are clever. Faith is not seen in the world anymore. its meaning has been changed to empty belief by doictrines such as the grace revolution. as if Gods word needs to be revolutionized. same thing the serpent has always taught. change what God is saying, take away the "negative" aspect. the negative a person perceives is positive meant for life.

There are 2 doctrines you see in this thread 1 is obey God because He gave us by grace the ability to be righteous by walking in the things Jesus said Himself TO DO. He wasn't hazy on the subject he made a point if you doi these things you will be blessed, if you do not you are the foolish builder and your house will crumble and its destruction will be complete. Jesus is all about following Jesus. Paul shows us how that is made possible, nothing more. we aren't saved by Paul, paul taught all the same things , just had the revelation of atonements power to make us new. that's it.

the other doctrine is anything you actually DO, is somehow trying to earn salvation. I do not need to earn my salvation, I have already came through pauls words prayerfully beginning at 15 years old. I'm good on my own salvation, I cannot be deceived any longer why? am I boasting here lol naw, I'm at the point where obeying Jesus cant fail, I am blessed every step because that "imparted righteousness" is real and true. dying to sin is real and true, being raised to new life is real and true. That's what the doctrine is lacking actually believing what it says because if it is taken as real, THEN its time to do those works prepared in advance to DO. that's where the flaw and poison is. the doctrine will never accept the obedience that is its whole purpose. wont even acknowledge obedience, repentance, confesion of sin, righteous living, service to Jesus The Lord. The whols doctrine is don't try, don't do anything or you've "fallen from Grace" lol labeling it a work of law, or human effort. false doctrine. and no matter how its spun its message is " don't do anything, rest Jesus already did it all, so you don't need to put effort into following Him, just believe and say " I'm righteous, even when I sin, I am not sinning, I cant sin no matter my action" that's just the serpents voice. saying " surely it wont kill you" surely God didn't say obey my commands, surely Jesus words don't apply youre righteous already because you say you are, no matter the sin, no need to repent.

and of course "that's not what it says" but yeah it says " don't do anything" obedience is an afterthought" ect...ect..ect....circular logic that clings to the old man of sin, and sets a person free to a lawlessness that has no boundaries. suppose a habitual child molester gets hold of this doctrine that refuses the importance of repentance? or a serial killer? if they accept these things, they will say no need to change Jesus lived a righteous life so I'm saved, let me continue without punishment doing as I will. sin is sin, lie, murder, adultery. same thing. that's why Jesus came to REMOVE sin from us, that's the only way that condemnation is gone because sin has been removed.

repentance essential, obedience to Jesus essential, action of faith essential. salvation is offered freely, accepting salvation changes the person into new creation. Salvation is Judged only by Jesus. No one has any right to save you aren't saved, they aren't saved. no one is saying that here. if a person cant see that paul taught just as much about behavior, using the language He uses, its just eyes that cant see. that's why the op was all the scripture from paul supported by peter and james. Jesus was more so about obedience than they appear, but they also are about doing what Jesus says. there is no other true doctrine But the doctrine of Jesus Christ. feeling good in sin, is not a good thing. it only condones death. theres plenty more faith and action in that 11 chapter of Hebrews. Faith without action is dead.

And I want no more to do with this false doctrine its to engrained in people. they've been hooked. Ill stick with Jesus. and have no more to say about, or to the doctrine carriers. I trust God will keep His own from the deception. Now I gotts work, or else I don't get paid. I wish I could just imagine a paycheck and receive it, but it doesn't work that way. He who works, reaps. He who sows in righteousness reaps eternal life, he who sows in sin reaps destruction. yall can look it up, but the blind wont accept it, not my issue tho.

 

[followjesus]

Amen! Either we are trusting 100% in Christ for salvation or else we are 100% lost.

if you trust 100 percent in Christ Jesus why are you against doing what He says? you don't trust His words or???? because HE says IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL OBEY MY COMMANDS several times.

trust is what you DO. so by your own words a person who doesn't trust in HIM 100 percent has no salvation. lol trust Jesus enough to look at His words, when you look at them you will see Him saying you must DO what I am saying to DO. so reason that one out and show how trust doesn't involve His words?



I already know the answer ill get. we just trust in what he did, not what he said to do right????? 100 percent trust in Jesus is absolutely RIGHT. so does that include trusting what He says? or just what paul says??? honest question does trusting 100 percent in Jesus mean trusting HIS OWN words?

 

[Scriptureplz]

if you trust 100 percent in Christ Jesus why are you against doing what He says? you don't trust His words or???? because HE says IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL OBEY MY COMMANDS several times.

trust is what you DO. so by your own words a person who doesn't trust in HIM 100 percent has no salvation. lol trust Jesus enough to look at His words, when you look at them you will see Him saying you must DO what I am saying to DO. so reason that one out and show how trust doesn't involve His words?



I already know the answer ill get. we just trust in what he did, not what he said to do right????? 100 percent trust in Jesus is absolutely RIGHT. so does that include trusting what He says? or just what paul says??? honest question does trusting 100 percent in Jesus mean trusting HIS OWN words?

What He said to "do" as far as salvation goes is to "believe" on the One that was sent.

[h=1]John 6:28-29 (KJV)[/h] [SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.