What Paul taught other than romans 8:1 lol

[followjesus]

john 14:15-23 "“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.


just a small sample mailman, who trusts Jesus 100 percent? who is it that Loves Jesus mailman? according to Jesus Himself????

you absolutely hit on my entire belief when you worded it that way. THAT is my point. obedience is trust according to Jesus, trusting Him 100 percent is to trust what He says to do and do it. according to Jesus need I waste more time showing you what Jesus said about obedience???? Now, am I the one NOT trusting Jesus 100 percent because I obey His words????

paul cant save anyone. He can only reveal your no longer a sinner, you died on the cross, now you are new...GO TO JESUS and do what Jesus says and you will LIVE. amen to your comment its ALL about 100 percent trust in Jesus and His words.


now, I know the doctrine answer. ' naw naw you misunderstand, gotta just trust in jesus finished work" that's nonsense. trusting Jesus is trusting Him 100 percent and HE CLEARLY SAYS REPEATEDLY THROUGHOUT THE GOSPELS DO WHAT I AM TELLING YOU TO DO. he says it also "if you don't do it, you will end in destruction. (wise and foolish builders. so you caught my interest mailman please do take time to answer this from your own mind and heart and not from the gospel of grace doctrine

 

[followjesus]

What He said to "do" as far as salvation goes is to "believe" on the One that was sent.

John 6:28-29 (KJV)

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

No He said OBEY MY TEACHING, My COMMANDS. but you can let this go I see the doctrine in you. live and be at peace bud. bless your heart

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

if you trust 100 percent in Christ Jesus why are you against doing what He says? you don't trust His words or???? because HE says IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL OBEY MY COMMANDS several times.

Trust 100 percent in Christ Jesus and faith in Christ alone are phrases used by some that mean a belief in Christ that rejects the requirement for obedience. Faith in Christ's death, burial and resurrection are not enough; you must believe this certain way to be saved.

 

[followjesus]

What He said to "do" as far as salvation goes is to "believe" on the One that was sent.

John 6:28-29 (KJV)

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

that's good scripture there. can I ask you, if you believe truly that 100000 dollars is buried in your front yard. will that lead to action on your part?

yes I know you would dig until you located the money, BECAUSE you believe its there. its not sants clause belief we have in Jesus, its believing if I follow Jesus He will do the rest and Keep every promise He makes. and there are many many wonderful rewarding promises that come from this belief.

for like the 10th time. to make this clear. I am not, have not will never say you or anyone isn't saved. I think arguing about salvation is silly. salvation is a gift, never would say different. and besides I'm not the judge, nor you or anyone else. the thing is when we see scriptures that are warnings about hell or punishment. those scriptures are true, just as all the others. and Gods word at times in life does indeed hurt our sinful man, the purpose is that the sinful nature will be destroyed so we can then live as right before God.

there is a "bible" movement that may be out in a year or so, all the negative things, all the right and wrong scriptures about behavior, punishment, sin repentance...all those things will be made with a positive spin or removed completely. its a people friendly type bible. Yet, to remove Gods word from Gods word because people don't want to agree with Gods word......Is 100 percent NOT Gods will, but clearly the will of His enemy. Many believers already do that same thing now in their minds and doctrines, and the point I'm trying to make with this thread, is that removing Gods word because we don't like what it says, is evil, is wrong and is not something we are to condone or accept. its deadly.


we see warnings as oppression, they aren't, they are like telling a kid " don't drink that bleach, it will kill you" that's how all Gods warnings of sin are, sin is poison it will kill Gods people. Look from the beginning how hard God was on sin. because it spreads and kills his people. you find that same thing in Jesus, Now there is grace and forgviveness. I am not in any way condemning any person. I am indeed saying the doctrines taught by pastors like joseph prince and his offspring are false and deadly. they have elements of truth, like all false doctrines do. id rather share the truth even if people don't want to hear it, even if it makes me the bad guy or outcast, because its the truth. we have forgiveness in Jesus, we have the grace to follow His word, to live righteous lives by trusting Him, by trusting " I am no longer a sinner, I died by faith, and was raised again by faith in Jesus" Now, I'm new, I'm clean and well able to "take His yoke upon myself and LEARN from JESUS. that is the process of being conformed to Jesus likeness as paul spoke.

we die through the cross, we are raised to new life as Gods children, by learning Jesus, applying Jesus to our lives. He is the spirit and Life, the cross is the death of the sinner. Gods children are made IN His Child. as mailman said 100 percent trust in Jesus, not only a few things he said but all of the things He taught. That's true doctrine. Living In Jesus because Gods grace has already made us new. already forgiven the old sinner by putting Him to death. Now the new person is here. when they sin, there is repentance, confession and forgiveness. there is the mercy rule of Jesus, forgive and you will be forgiven. its all about Jesus all about doing what Jesus says to do

 

[followjesus]

Trust 100 percent in Christ Jesus and faith in Christ alone are phrases used by some that mean a belief in Christ that rejects the requirement for obedience. Faith in Christ's death, burial and resurrection are not enough; you must believe this certain way to be saved.

yes indeed I see that all the time in the world. that's the danger of false doctrine." trust in his work that already finished, if you try to obey your doing wrong" we do trust in what he accomplished on the cross indeed. that trust leads us to trust fully as you know, in His teachings, His words, commands. so many quote matthew where it says "come to me all you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest" but then He says take my yoke upon you and learn from me....He is much more than savior. I wish honestly people would all see Jesus, but some will not ever see Him for the truth.

each person must account for their own actions and words, myself included. my understanding of trusting Him 100 percent is to trust also what He says , and not Just that He died for my sins. I wish people would see and Love Jesus as He says to Love Him. it would be a far better world if the Church came together under the Kings order of things.

 

[followjesus]

Trust 100 percent in Christ Jesus and faith in Christ alone are phrases used by some that mean a belief in Christ that rejects the requirement for obedience. Faith in Christ's death, burial and resurrection are not enough; you must believe this certain way to be saved.

it becomes evident when someone says trust fully in Jesus, then you show them He says to obey Him, and then all the doctrine avoids the fact that trusting His words is included. That's the fallacy and danger of the doctrine. its to trust what paul says only of grace, the doctrine as I have shown in this thread even has to omit all the things paul clearly says of repentance and obedience. its a humanism doctrine, by saying we have no sin no matter what, by building up the ego and image somehow that's Gods will. I see now that you are on with the gnostic label of that doctrine.

 

[mailmandan]

if you trust 100 percent in Christ Jesus why are you against doing what He says?

Who said I was against doing what He says? You need to realize that there is a difference between doing what He says "in order to become saved" and doing what He says "after we have been saved through faith." I don't confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture and end up teaching salvation by works.

you don't trust His words or???? because HE says IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL OBEY MY COMMANDS several times.

I trust His words. In John 14:15, Jesus said, "if you love Me, (demonstrative evidence) you will "keep" My commandments." By the way, the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which means to keep, guard, observe, watch over. Jesus is not talking about salvation by works through sinless perfect obedience to all of His commandments 100% of the time here. If He was then we would all be disqualified (Romans 3:23). Do you trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation? (Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16; Ephesians 2:8,9). OR are you trusting in your works to save you?

trust is what you DO. so by your own words a person who doesn't trust in HIM 100 percent has no salvation. lol

Trust in what HE DID and not in what YOU DO. Either we are saved by trusting or else we are saved by trying. Ether Christ did it all or else we did some of it. You can't have it both ways. This is no laughing matter.

trust Jesus enough to look at His words, when you look at them you will see Him saying you must DO what I am saying to DO. so reason that one out and show how trust doesn't involve His words?

What did Jesus say to DO in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:40,47; 11:25,26? You seem to ignore PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture for DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture because you are apparently trusting in what YOU DO (works) and not in HIM ALONE for salvation.

I already know the answer ill get. we just trust in what he did, not what he said to do right?????

Again, what did Jesus say to DO in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:40,47; 11:25,26? - BELIEVE IN HIM. NOT believe in what YOU DO.

100 percent trust in Jesus is absolutely RIGHT. so does that include trusting what He says? or just what paul says??? honest question does trusting 100 percent in Jesus mean trusting HIS OWN words?

Believers trust in what Jesus says to be true, but that does not mean we are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless or that we are saved by works. Trusting in what Jesus says to do BECAUSE we are saved "in order to become saved" is not trusting in what Jesus says. Do you trust in what JESUS DID (faith) or in what YOU DO (works) in order to receive eternal life? Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

 

[Skinski7]

Hi followjesus.

You might like my second to most recent article at pearlofgreatprice.info

It is about Substitution.

The reason that many simply won't receive your words as they view the death of Christ as establishing a provision and that the forgiveness of sins is purely based on that provision. Thus for us to actually be required to do anything would be adding to what they percieve as Jesus finished work.

It is a false framework of theology they are beholden to, a framework which serves to tickle the ears of the unrepentant.

Thanks for your efforts in this thread.

 

[mailmandan]

Trust 100 percent in Christ Jesus and faith in Christ alone are phrases used by some that mean a belief in Christ that rejects the requirement for obedience. Faith in Christ's death, burial and resurrection are not enough; you must believe this certain way to be saved.

Believers do not reject obedience as part of the Christian life. We just reject salvation by works. You could never be "obedient enough" to earn your salvation. Works righteousness remains your stumbling block. Faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is enough because Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save us. No supplements needed. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Believers do not reject obedience as part of the Christian life. We just reject salvation by works. You could never be "obedient enough" to earn your salvation. Works righteousness remains your stumbling block. Faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is enough because Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save us. No supplements needed. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

Distinguish salvation by works and obedience, if you will.

 

[mailmandan]

Distinguish salvation by works and obedience, if you will.

Salvation by works is salvation based on our works. Salvation is through faith and obedience which follows is works and we are not saved by works, but through faith in Christ. Works salvationists don't seem to make a distinction between faith and obedience/works which follow.

 

[followjesus]

Believers do not reject obedience as part of the Christian life. We just reject salvation by works. You could never be "obedient enough" to earn your salvation. Works righteousness remains your stumbling block. Faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is enough because Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save us. No supplements needed. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

Then why not do what Jesus says to do? lol if you trust Him HE is saying clearly as are all the other apostles do what Jesus is saying. no the gospel is not the gospel of Grace. why do you think there are only 4 books called the gospel according to matthew, the gospel according to mark, the gospel according to Luk, and the gospel according to John? the others are epistles not gospels.

its the doctrine that's telling you that the goepl is found in paul. what does paul say of following Him ? or appolos??? doesn't he thank God that he didn't baptize them so that they cant say "i follow paul'? if you don't reject obedience why when obedience is mentioned is the continuos label " salvation by works spoken"?

Ive said 10 times probably in this thread salvation is a gift, Not for the purpose of remaining the same, not for the purpose of anything other than obedience to Jesus Christ. I'm not making up what Jesus Himself says am I? if you have a Bible handy, look in it for yourself and see Him saying, you must do these things, or your destruction will come to you. its Jesus who said we must obey, not a flase doctrine I'm making up. Paul had great revelation that is important, it is in no way a substitute for Jesus words is it?

Paul enables believers to follow Jesus, that's all paul is revealing. " you died and now you are new, clean and have a spirit od holiness" Now there is no excuse to not follow the Lord is the revelation of paul. the gospel is Jesus and only Jesus, paul never changed or argued that. his statements about salvation by works is to say " you cant be saved by obeying the mosaic Law" it has nothing to do with obeying Jesus Christ. Its not salvation by works to obey Jesus, its living as children of God, following the Only Child of Gods teachings, commands. that is our life. and Jesus Himself warns of not doing what He says repeatedly as do all the words in the Bible, nearly every single book, including most of pauls letters.

Has anyone ever considered that paul was a Pharisee and Pharisees were obedient to the law? obedience isn't stressed by paul up front because it wasn't something he ever struggled with. He says he was "faultless" when it came to obedience to the law. it was natural for paul to obey the law. His ;letters are not establishing churches on a new gospel, they are corrections of behaviors he had heard of after departing, besides romans, he hadn't been to the roman church yet. it was sent to introduce the layout of His revelation, again " you died with Jesus , and you are raised to newness of life in Him" think of all His statements like " crucified with Christ and I no longer live, the life I live now I loive by faith in the son of God" like " if you are in Christ you are a new creation, the old has gone, the new has come" this is his revelation. you died to sin, the sinner you were died on the cross. Now you are born anew as a child of God"


to become a child is to follow His Son. to trust in His words the only true gospel. paul was only eb=nabling people to live the true gospel. peter condenses the atonement in one verse 1 peter 2:24 " He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, SO THAT we might die to sins and live for righteousness ; By HIS wounds you HAVE BEEN healed."......the healing from the disease of sin is what happened in the atonement. none of this excludes obedience but enables and fully supports it. trying to work for salvation is trying to gain it through the mosaic law, impossible. it is only found in Christ

 

[John146]

Then why not do what Jesus says to do? lol if you trust Him HE is saying clearly as are all the other apostles do what Jesus is saying. no the gospel is not the gospel of Grace. why do you think there are only 4 books called the gospel according to matthew, the gospel according to mark, the gospel according to Luk, and the gospel according to John? the others are epistles not gospels.

its the doctrine that's telling you that the goepl is found in paul. what does paul say of following Him ? or appolos??? doesn't he thank God that he didn't baptize them so that they cant say "i follow paul'? if you don't reject obedience why when obedience is mentioned is the continuos label " salvation by works spoken"?

Ive said 10 times probably in this thread salvation is a gift, Not for the purpose of remaining the same, not for the purpose of anything other than obedience to Jesus Christ. I'm not making up what Jesus Himself says am I? if you have a Bible handy, look in it for yourself and see Him saying, you must do these things, or your destruction will come to you. its Jesus who said we must obey, not a flase doctrine I'm making up. Paul had great revelation that is important, it is in no way a substitute for Jesus words is it?

Paul enables believers to follow Jesus, that's all paul is revealing. " you died and now you are new, clean and have a spirit od holiness" Now there is no excuse to not follow the Lord is the revelation of paul. the gospel is Jesus and only Jesus, paul never changed or argued that. his statements about salvation by works is to say " you cant be saved by obeying the mosaic Law" it has nothing to do with obeying Jesus Christ. Its not salvation by works to obey Jesus, its living as children of God, following the Only Child of Gods teachings, commands. that is our life. and Jesus Himself warns of not doing what He says repeatedly as do all the words in the Bible, nearly every single book, including most of pauls letters.

Has anyone ever considered that paul was a Pharisee and Pharisees were obedient to the law? obedience isn't stressed by paul up front because it wasn't something he ever struggled with. He says he was "faultless" when it came to obedience to the law. it was natural for paul to obey the law. His ;letters are not establishing churches on a new gospel, they are corrections of behaviors he had heard of after departing, besides romans, he hadn't been to the roman church yet. it was sent to introduce the layout of His revelation, again " you died with Jesus , and you are raised to newness of life in Him" think of all His statements like " crucified with Christ and I no longer live, the life I live now I loive by faith in the son of God" like " if you are in Christ you are a new creation, the old has gone, the new has come" this is his revelation. you died to sin, the sinner you were died on the cross. Now you are born anew as a child of God"


to become a child is to follow His Son. to trust in His words the only true gospel. paul was only eb=nabling people to live the true gospel. peter condenses the atonement in one verse 1 peter 2:24 " He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, SO THAT we might die to sins and live for righteousness ; By HIS wounds you HAVE BEEN healed."......the healing from the disease of sin is what happened in the atonement. none of this excludes obedience but enables and fully supports it. trying to work for salvation is trying to gain it through the mosaic law, impossible. it is only found in Christ

What commandments did Jesus tells us to do that you keep talking about? The law? What Jesus had commanded before the death, burial and resurrection? Or those commandments given to the Apostle Paul?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Salvation by works is salvation based on our works. Salvation is through faith and obedience which follows is works and we are not saved by works, but through faith in Christ. Works salvationists don't seem to make a distinction between faith and obedience/works which follow.

Jesus said only those who do the will of GOD will be saved. How is the salvation of those not dependent upon what they do?

 

[followjesus]

Salvation by works is salvation based on our works. Salvation is through faith and obedience which follows is works and we are not saved by works, but through faith in Christ. Works salvationists don't seem to make a distinction between faith and obedience/works which follow.

works are of the law of moses, obedience is obedience to Jesus Gospel. there is another aspect, the warnings against NOT obeying are clearly taught by Jesus as well. it doesn't feel good to hear, but its no less true. obedience does come like you d=said here through faith, pauls writing indeed are important to empower the new man to follow in obedience. faith and action are not separate. Abraham was credited with righteousness first, when He was commanded to sacrifice Isaac, he obeyed. this is when God swore by himself to bless Abraham and all people through Him. action confirms the covenant and brings God swearing by Himself the blessing.

if Abraham had not obeyed, would He still have been considered righteous ? or did God see His sincerity in His belief and knew He would obey? the action of faith confirms the faith. Faith withoiut that action is of no effect. whether or not someone can be saved is Gods decision not mine. all I'm saying is any doctrine that doesn't lead to obedience to Jesus, is false. and Jesus commands action upon His words and teachings. there is action in faith. look at peter. " if it is you lord tell me to come and I will come" Jesus " It is I" Come"....peter leaped in obedience Knowing Jesus was saying come. and peter walked on water with Jesus. faith. and action are one. faith comes through hearing and accepting what God says, all of it, then the action seals the faith. completes it. to know and not do is destruction, to know and do is life

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus said only those who do the will of GOD will be saved. How is the salvation of those not dependent upon what they do?

You are confusing God's will for us to become saved: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day with God's will for us AFTER we have been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8-10).

 

[Grace777x70]

You are confusing God's will for us to become saved: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day with God's will for us AFTER we have been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Amen..and here is some more scripture to back this truth up.

Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world

Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:


It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[miknik5]

Amen..not to mention the other crazy stuff that Paul said they were doing like going to the temple prostitutes for sex, getting drunk at Communion from drinking wine...etc.

My goodness...the self-proclaimed heretic hunters of the internet would have a field day with that. Not to mention the threads that would be started here about all these "false Christians" sinning like this.

The answer is always the same - preach Christ to them so that we can grow up in Him through grace and knowledge.

Colossians 2:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

Which is what we were supposed to do...
Bring all the sheep to THE SHEPHERD and let THE SHEPHERD shepherd HIS SHEEP...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You are confusing God's will for us to become saved: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day with God's will for us AFTER we have been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8-10).

No, I think you are the one confusing things. Jesus made no such distinction.

 

[miknik5]

Jesus said only those who do the will of GOD will be saved. How is the salvation of those not dependent upon what they do?

The WILL of THE FATHER (Just as THE WORK of THE FATHER) you will also find in John 6,

It's actually the same as the WORK of GOD...

Would you like me to post the scriptures for it?
(John 6:40)