Is there ONLY Grace or are we seeing what we want to see?

[followjesus]

I understand that Grace is a wonderful concept and a VERY true aspect of who God is, and we should thank Him daily for His grace as do most of the people who Know Him. As many would also agree, the apostle Paul revealed much about Gods Grace, but does He actually teach that God is only Grace? Does He teach that fear of Gods righteous Judgement is the wrong stance to have?

In Romans 11 as paul is talking of israels disobedience and lack of Faith bringing salvation to even the gentiles, speaking of ingrafted branches and so on, speaking to the church in Rome he says this

Romans 11:20-22 "Granted, but they ( Israel ) were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness, and sternness of God : sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in His kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cutoff."


given the many other statements by even paul regarding, wrath, justice, righteous judgement of God, and the many statements concerning behavior, the statements plainly setting forth " all men will be judged according to what they do"
Is paul really teaching "unwarranted favor" that doesn't entwine with what a person who is standing by faith, actually does?
Is grace taught by paul, really as it is taught in modern doctrines as if a believer can do no wrong, or as if once faith is proclaimed, eternal life is a guarantee regardless of how a person lives and acts? Is God forcing salvation on a believer through Grace alone? does God have many aspects to His nature other than simply He is grace alone?

I'm not setting forth all these questions to be answered, but hopefully to inspire thinking of what is written throughout even pauls writings, apart from a doctrine mindset. The thinking is this : is it better to hold to a doctrine we want to hear, or is it better by far, to accept What God is saying through men like Paul, and james, and peter, and john? is it a better design to pick and choose what we see or Just accept what Gods word is saying.

My thoughts differ from many, and I feel as if that's okay. as I have said many times I'm in no way an authority, teacher, leader ect. I do however take so many issues with misteaching others because of a popular doctrine that Says God is only grace, because the word of God says very different. To me, its like making God out to be more pleasing to a human mind, when He is already perfect in every way, and it keeps development held down by trying to make God who He isn't, by omitting His revelation of who He actually is.

God is all powerful, He is Grace, mercy, vengeance, wrath, Justice, peace, healing and also many other aspects depending on whether a person accepts Him for who he is, or who we want him to be. I cant wrap my head or heart around omission in favor of making the word easy to take. I feel as if God would have designed His word that way and left out every negative ( as we perceive it to be) aspect if that Was His approved will. Grace in Gods word, to me, is not the definition taught by the world. it is not only unwarranted favor to man from God, But is unwarranted favor TAUGHT and commanded to us, By Jesus Christ, for God and for our fellow man.

Just a few thoughts when studying and considering the Bible and discussion forums, Maybe whats there is the best version of the truth, Given that it was given by the Men God chose to write it the way they wrote it. That's where myself and I'm sure many others stand on Gods word. So badgering is not the intention of people speaking repentance, pointing to the warnings that are already there, pointing to the fact that Gods word doesn't actually say, there is only grace that is of God, He is the one who purposed His word to be written as it is written, and I firmly and always will hold that His design is perfect for the salvation of man, Grace, wrath, repentance, forgiveness, commandments....and whatever else is there will save man from destruction. there needs to be Grace spoken, and there needs to be repentance and conditions spoken, the coming wrath needs to be spoken, forgiveness we give and behavior we choose needs to be spoken because all of these things are placed there by The Lords design, who is beyond revolutionizing or correcting.


God bless, and all honor , praise, thanks, glory in all we do and say belongs to God in and through Jesus Christ Our Lord and savior.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Does He teach that fear of Gods righteous Judgement is the wrong stance to have?

Revelations 19:5 "Then a voice came from the throne, saying "Praise our God, all you His servants, you who fear Him, both great and small!"
It is right to have a fear of God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Revelations 19:5 "Then a voice came from the throne, saying "Praise our God, all you His servants, you who fear Him, both great and small!"
It is right to have a fear of God.

It's one of the 7 holy spirits. It keeps us from straying too far.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

It's one of the 7 holy spirits.

I have never heard about this : p Whats that?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I have never heard about this : p Whats that?

​John, to the seven churches in Asia: grace to you and peace from the one who is and the one who was and the one who is coming, and from the seven spirits who [are] before his throne, Revelation 1:4

And there shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse, and a blossom shall come up from [his] root: and the Spirit of God shall rest upon him, 1) the spirit of wisdom and 2) understanding, 3) the spirit of counsel and 4) strength, 5) the spirit of knowledge and 6) godliness shall fill him; 7) the spirit of the fear of God. He shall not judge according to appearance, nor reprove according to report: Isaiah 11:1-3

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

​John, to the seven churches in Asia: grace to you and peace from the one who is and the one who was and the one who is coming, and from the seven spirits who [are] before his throne, Revelation 1:4

And there shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse, and a blossom shall come up from [his] root: and the Spirit of God shall rest upon him, 1) the spirit of wisdom and 2) understanding, 3) the spirit of counsel and 4) strength, 5) the spirit of knowledge and 6) godliness shall fill him; 7) the spirit of the fear of God. He shall not judge according to appearance, nor reprove according to report: Isaiah 11:1-3

Seems to show the Spirit of God (either as one and the same Spirit) which divides severally according to his ability (which is the same God gives) and of that same Spirit (resting upon him) as you show the same resting upon him (whether upon the Branch, Stone, or Lamb) in the fulness of the same (or shown as one then dividing severally upon him) in those.

You show the branch, as the same is shown upon the stone, and the lamb (slain) and sent forward (into the earth)

For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes :behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.(Zech 3:9)

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders,
stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Rev 5:6)

After being slain (see a lamb that "had been slain") it shows there "the seven horns and eyes" (combined) as the seven Spirits, when we know Christ (that Branch, the Stone, the Lamb) was filled with the fulness of the Godhead bodily (and likewise we have received of his fulness) as it shows the same being sent out into the earth (in that way)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Seems to show the Spirit of God (either as one and the same Spirit) which divides severally according to his ability (which is the same God gives) and of that same Spirit (resting upon him) as you show the same resting upon him (whether upon the Branch, Stone, or Lamb) in the fulness of the same (or shown as one then dividing severally upon him) in those.

You show the branch, as the same is shown upon the stone, and the lamb (slain) and sent forward (into the earth)

For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes :behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.(Zech 3:9)

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders,
stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Rev 5:6)

After being slain (see a lamb that "had been slain") it shows there "the seven horns and eyes" (combined) as the seven Spirits, when we know Christ (that Branch, the Stone, the Lamb) was filled with the fulness of the Godhead bodily (and likewise we have received of his fulness) as it shows the same being sent out into the earth (in that way)

Horns are like trumpets=a voice of utterance given by the Spirit, and is also given to us a mouth to speak.
Eyes=seeing and understanding the deep things of God, having our eyes of understanding illuminated by the Spirit to see, hear, and understand the deep spiritual things of God= wisdom.

Luke 21:15
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Proverbs 2:6
For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Horns are like trumpets=a voice of utterance given by the Spirit, and is also given to us a mouth to speak.
Eyes=seeing and understanding the deep things of God, having our eyes of understanding illuminated by the Spirit to see, hear, and understand the deep spiritual things of God= wisdom.

Luke 21:15
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Proverbs 2:6
For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

The mouth of wisdom is shown as the Spirit of your Father similarly

Mat 10:20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Seems to show the Spirit of God (either as one and the same Spirit) which divides severally according to his ability (which is the same God gives) and of that same Spirit (resting upon him) as you show the same resting upon him (whether upon the Branch, Stone, or Lamb) in the fulness of the same (or shown as one then dividing severally upon him) in those.

You show the branch, as the same is shown upon the stone, and the lamb (slain) and sent forward (into the earth)

For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes :behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.(Zech 3:9)

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders,
stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Rev 5:6)

After being slain (see a lamb that "had been slain") it shows there "the seven horns and eyes" (combined) as the seven Spirits, when we know Christ (that Branch, the Stone, the Lamb) was filled with the fulness of the Godhead bodily (and likewise we have received of his fulness) as it shows the same being sent out into the earth (in that way)

Let's not forget:

For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of [them] whose heart [is] perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars. 2 Chronicles 16:9

For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel [with] those seven; they [are] the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth. Zechariah 4:10​

One spirit, 7 voices (or so it seems).

And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice [was] like a sound of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. Ezekiel 43:2​

 

[followjesus]

Really great stuff guys.

 

[John146]

I understand that Grace is a wonderful concept and a VERY true aspect of who God is, and we should thank Him daily for His grace as do most of the people who Know Him. As many would also agree, the apostle Paul revealed much about Gods Grace, but does He actually teach that God is only Grace? Does He teach that fear of Gods righteous Judgement is the wrong stance to have?

In Romans 11 as paul is talking of israels disobedience and lack of Faith bringing salvation to even the gentiles, speaking of ingrafted branches and so on, speaking to the church in Rome he says this

Romans 11:20-22 "Granted, but they ( Israel ) were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness, and sternness of God : sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in His kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cutoff."

Why was the nation of Israel cut off? Because of unbelief they were cut off. All were not in unbelief for God still had a remnant according to grace, verse 5-6. If God did not spare the natural branches(Israel) because of unbelief, He will not spare the Gentile world for unbelief. He goes on to tell us that part of the mystery is there will be a time when God is through dealing the Gentile world(fullness of the Gentiles) and He will once again deal with the nation of Israel to fulfill the Davidic covenant and promises He has made to them. They will no longer be blind like they are today.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Scripture is not talking about individuals being cut off and losing salvation, rather Scripture is addressing nations, the nation of Israel and the Gentile world being blinded from the truth of Jesus Christ.

 

[John146]

given the many other statements by even paul regarding, wrath, justice, righteous judgement of God, and the many statements concerning behavior, the statements plainly setting forth " all men will be judged according to what they do"
Is paul really teaching "unwarranted favor" that doesn't entwine with what a person who is standing by faith, actually does?
Is grace taught by paul, really as it is taught in modern doctrines as if a believer can do no wrong, or as if once faith is proclaimed, eternal life is a guarantee regardless of how a person lives and acts? Is God forcing salvation on a believer through Grace alone? does God have many aspects to His nature other than simply He is grace alone?

Have you heard of the Judgment Seat of Christ? The judgment on the believer's life for our obedience on this earth? This is not a judgment for sin for sin was taken care of at the cross. The believer will be judged according to the manner in which they lived with the word of God as Judge.

The JSOC is not the same as the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of time. The JSOC is only for the church, the body of Christ, those who are in Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

apart from grace, no one will be saved.

Even the heathen was offered grace, they will be judged not because God did not have grace, but because they rejected Gods grace

the very fact we are able to sit here and disagree and even attempt to discuss the word. is but the grace of God. We all deserves hell the first sin we commited. God did not have to let us live any longer, But out of his mercy, He allows us to live, argue fight, sin be proud etc etc. In hopes we will one day receive his gift of eternal life.

Paul taught grace alone, Just like the rest of scripture does.. Grace alone THROUGH faith..

Grace only saved if on has faith. if ones faith is dead, they are no more saved than a demon, Yet God still offers it to them.

 

[followjesus]

Have you heard of the Judgment Seat of Christ? The judgment on the believer's life for our obedience on this earth? This is not a judgment for sin for sin was taken care of at the cross. The believer will be judged according to the manner in which they lived with the word of God as Judge.

The JSOC is not the same as the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of time. The JSOC is only for the church, the body of Christ, those who are in Christ.

this judgement seat of Christ?
So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.


yeah, ive heard of it, ive also heard of the interpretation of Grace regardless of sin in a persons life. I also see the person who is in Christ is a new creation already, the old has gone already. the sinner is gone already, the righteousness has come already. I also see the rest of what Gods word says. have you heard of the justification and what God did in His forebearance? forgiving the sins commited BEFOREHAND?? there are no scriptures saying the sins we commit as a believer are already forgiven. that forgiveness is found IN CHRIST. and is based on BY JESUS CHRISTS OWN WORDS. "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your father in heaven will forgive you your sins, if you DO NOT FORGIVE you brother, your Father will NOT FORGIVE YOUR SINS." these are the words of the one who will be ON that judgement seat you are speaking of. there is much more thatn a forced salvation in Gods word. MUCH more. in Christ there are conditions for forgiveness. read the parable of the unforgiving debtor, read the Lords prayer lol.

to say I believe, is not an unconditional forgiveness for whatever SINS a believer commits, in no way are we already forgiven. Notice your quote, Take AWAY their sins. Not pardon them in their sin, he doesn't use the term washed their robes or made them white to just ignore sin because of the worldly definition of Grace, Sorry, misunderstanding Paul, DOES not exclude the words of the Judge. there is plenty forgiveness available to Christians....it is solely based on forgiveing others Which is TAUGHT BY THE KING, THE SAVIOR THE JUDGE.

you guys are just impossible to discuss anything with at all, if something doesn't go with your own idea, you are willing to dismiss JESUS idea because jp says it doesn't apply.....Naw, nope, no way I will ever omit Jesus, His words are Life, freedom, spirit, TRUTH and all the grace available in Gods word is found in Jesus Christ, the ONLY GOSPEL, the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ. sins are forgiven through repentance, confession and also.....the measure of forgiveness a believer is willing to give others AS JESUS TEACHES. I'm not into mans theorys, I trust Jesus and Gods design alone.

that being said, did you even grasp this op? there is more to God than His wonderful Grace. to say different is to omit a great part of His own word which ill never do, its way too clear. bless you tho

 

[FreeNChrist]

Excerpt from, "Knowing God", by J. I. Packer


His Restoring Grace Waits for You

What is grace? In the New Testament, grace means God's love in action towards men who merited the opposite of love. Grace means God moving heaven and earth to save sinners who could not lift a finger to save themselves. Grace means God sending his only Son to descend into hell on the cross so that we guilty ones might be reconciled to God and received into heaven. "God hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

The New Testament knows both a will of grace and a work of grace. The former is God's eternal plan to save; the latter is God's 'good work in you' (Philippians 1:6), whereby He calls man into living fellowship with Christ (1 Corinthians 1:9), raises them from death to life (Ephesians 2:1-6), seals them as His own by the gift of His Spirit (Ephesians 1:13), transforms them into Christ's image (2 Corinthians 3:18), and will finally raise their bodies in glory (Romans 8:31; 1 Corinthians 15;47 -54). It was fashionable among Protestant scholars some years ago to say that Grace means God's loving attitude as distinct from His loving work, but that is an unscriptural distinction. In (for instance) 1 Corinthians 15:10 – 'by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain: but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I but the grace of God which was with me' - the word 'grace' clearly denotes God's loving work in Paul, whereby He made him first a Christian and then a minister.

What is the purpose of grace? Primarily, to restore man's relationship with God. When God lays the foundation of this restorative relationship, by forgiving our sins as we trust His Son, He does so in order that henceforth we and He may live in fellowship, and what He does in renewing our nature is intended to make us capable of, and actually to lead us into, the exercise of love, trust, delight, hope, and obedience Godward – those acts which, from our side, make up the reality of fellowship with God, who is constantly making Himself known to us. This is what all the work of Grace aims at – an ever deeper knowledge of God, and an ever closer fellowship with Him. Grace is God drawing us as sinners closer and closer to Himself.

 

[followjesus]

apart from grace, no one will be saved.

Even the heathen was offered grace, they will be judged not because God did not have grace, but because they rejected Gods grace

the very fact we are able to sit here and disagree and even attempt to discuss the word. is but the grace of God. We all deserves hell the first sin we commited. God did not have to let us live any longer, But out of his mercy, He allows us to live, argue fight, sin be proud etc etc. In hopes we will one day receive his gift of eternal life.

Paul taught grace alone, Just like the rest of scripture does.. Grace alone THROUGH faith..

Grace only saved if on has faith. if ones faith is dead, they are no more saved than a demon, Yet God still offers it to them.

indeed salvation comes by Grace, not the worlds definition of Grace, Gods definition of Grace. Grace is not only the forgiveness of our past sins. it is also what Jesus teaches His followers to obey. He teaches " forgive as many times as someone repents" that's Grace. its grace to forgive another, an offender doesn't deserve forgiveness, it is offered and given by Grace. all of Jesus teaching is that way. its grace to turn the other cheek, give to the poor, forgive others ect... My assertion for months is not that Grace isn't How we are saved, always said and maintain its all because of gods Grace. The point is, Grace is mistaught, misunderstood because people mistake what paul taught, and think Jesus teaching doesn't apply.

If not for Gods grace, mankind would never have existed, the first breath of life into adam was Grace of God, making life from the dead. Grace has always been evident in Gods nature. always has been part of Who He is. What Grace is not, is what the masses in the world are running after because of the false teaching of Grace based on websters dictionary. Just Like Love, its not the worlds love that says I love you friend, its Jesus brand of Love, to lay down our selves for the sake of others.

Satan has no power to change what God said, His method is to change our thinking of what Gods word means.

 

[followjesus]

Excerpt from, "Knowing God", by J. I. Packer


His Restoring Grace Waits for You

What is grace? In the New Testament, grace means God's love in action towards men who merited the opposite of love. Grace means God moving heaven and earth to save sinners who could not lift a finger to save themselves. Grace means God sending his only Son to descend into hell on the cross so that we guilty ones might be reconciled to God and received into heaven. "God hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

The New Testament knows both a will of grace and a work of grace. The former is God's eternal plan to save; the latter is God's 'good work in you' (Philippians 1:6), whereby He calls man into living fellowship with Christ (1 Corinthians 1:9), raises them from death to life (Ephesians 2:1-6), seals them as His own by the gift of His Spirit (Ephesians 1:13), transforms them into Christ's image (2 Corinthians 3:18), and will finally raise their bodies in glory (Romans 8:31; 1 Corinthians 15;47 -54). It was fashionable among Protestant scholars some years ago to say that Grace means God's loving attitude as distinct from His loving work, but that is an unscriptural distinction. In (for instance) 1 Corinthians 15:10 – 'by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain: but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I but the grace of God which was with me' - the word 'grace' clearly denotes God's loving work in Paul, whereby He made him first a Christian and then a minister.

What is the purpose of grace? Primarily, to restore man's relationship with God. When God lays the foundation of this restorative relationship, by forgiving our sins as we trust His Son, He does so in order that henceforth we and He may live in fellowship, and what He does in renewing our nature is intended to make us capable of, and actually to lead us into, the exercise of love, trust, delight, hope, and obedience Godward – those acts which, from our side, make up the reality of fellowship with God, who is constantly making Himself known to us. This is what all the work of Grace aims at – an ever deeper knowledge of God, and an ever closer fellowship with Him. Grace is God drawing us as sinners closer and closer to Himself.

Grace is more. it is also the teachings of Jesus that we are commanded to give to others. that's Grace. its grace to forgive my brother, grace to turn the opther cheek, grace to look after the poor and comfort someone who makes a mistake and is hurting. Jesus teaches Grace as well as Gods grace that forgave our sins commited under rule of the stone tablets. its not as if God didn't Leave a rule over us, the rule is Jesus teachings. that's why He continually says do this, you must do these things, obey my commands, teach ALL nations to obey everything I commanded you ect.... Gods grace saved us, made us new beings full of His grace, in order that we give it to others by obeying His commands.

And yes, there is still punishment for those who do not. if we forgive, we are promised to be forgiven....that single principle there "by the measure you use, it will be measured to you" Jesus teachings are Grace, and they are also Justice for each individual. who is it that really deserves mercy? the merciful. who is it that deserves to be forgiven? those who are forgiving. Jesus is the completion opf everything a believer needs, just by simply taking His word above all else. He is the one we claim after all, His teachings should definitely carry the more weight than any new wave today. all by Grace, but Gods design and definition of Grace is not the same as websters definition of the word Grace. Gods Grace is far more. the spirit of God understands it, sees the grace in obedience to Gods word, we received far more than we can a=ever earn or deserve, when we do, its time to be gracious to God and our neighbor that's the commandment of God " Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself"

knowing love is not the worlds either, But Jesus brand of the greatest Love that is in us. grace isn't selfish just for a persons salvation, it goes further. and the many many warnings of Jesus, paul, john, james.....the old testament prophets, God Himself. those are all as true as anything else fopund in Gods word. its about Grace for obedience to Grace. Grace we receive and grace we Give as TAUGHT by Jesus, the Son of God, the Christ of God, the Messiah.

 

[followjesus]

Excerpt from, "Knowing God", by J. I. Packer


His Restoring Grace Waits for You

What is grace? In the New Testament, grace means God's love in action towards men who merited the opposite of love. Grace means God moving heaven and earth to save sinners who could not lift a finger to save themselves. Grace means God sending his only Son to descend into hell on the cross so that we guilty ones might be reconciled to God and received into heaven. "God hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

The New Testament knows both a will of grace and a work of grace. The former is God's eternal plan to save; the latter is God's 'good work in you' (Philippians 1:6), whereby He calls man into living fellowship with Christ (1 Corinthians 1:9), raises them from death to life (Ephesians 2:1-6), seals them as His own by the gift of His Spirit (Ephesians 1:13), transforms them into Christ's image (2 Corinthians 3:18), and will finally raise their bodies in glory (Romans 8:31; 1 Corinthians 15;47 -54). It was fashionable among Protestant scholars some years ago to say that Grace means God's loving attitude as distinct from His loving work, but that is an unscriptural distinction. In (for instance) 1 Corinthians 15:10 – 'by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain: but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I but the grace of God which was with me' - the word 'grace' clearly denotes God's loving work in Paul, whereby He made him first a Christian and then a minister.

What is the purpose of grace? Primarily, to restore man's relationship with God. When God lays the foundation of this restorative relationship, by forgiving our sins as we trust His Son, He does so in order that henceforth we and He may live in fellowship, and what He does in renewing our nature is intended to make us capable of, and actually to lead us into, the exercise of love, trust, delight, hope, and obedience Godward – those acts which, from our side, make up the reality of fellowship with God, who is constantly making Himself known to us. This is what all the work of Grace aims at – an ever deeper knowledge of God, and an ever closer fellowship with Him. Grace is God drawing us as sinners closer and closer to Himself.

see what you said there I like that. fellowshipping with Jesus is found in following Hos words, learning Him learning Hos grace. good stuff

 

[eternally-gratefull]

indeed salvation comes by Grace, not the worlds definition of Grace, Gods definition of Grace.

I agree, Grace is not given to people who earn it, Or just people you lie (the words way) but to all, but that does not mean all will accept it..

Grace is not only the forgiveness of our past sins. it is also what Jesus teaches His followers to obey. He teaches " forgive as many times as someone repents" that's Grace.

No, that's not grace, that's works. And jesus never said this, Jesus said forgive 70 X 7 whether your brother asked for forgiveness or not.

its grace to forgive another, an offender doesn't deserve forgiveness, it is offered and given by Grace. all of Jesus teaching is that way. its grace to turn the other cheek, give to the poor, forgive others ect... My assertion for months is not that Grace isn't How we are saved, always said and maintain its all because of gods Grace. The point is, Grace is mistaught, misunderstood because people mistake what paul taught, and think Jesus teaching doesn't apply.

I agree, it is mistaught, and why so many people are struggling, Because they can not understand grace was paid for by Christ, but people want to pay for it themselves. Think they did something to earn it.. Which is human nature, and why so many buy into it..

A good lie is useless if it does not work A lie that speaks to our nature is a master peace. Because people will be fooled into believing it.

If not for Gods grace, mankind would never have existed, the first breath of life into adam was Grace of God, making life from the dead.

Um no. Mankind was not created in sin, Adam before the fall did not need grace, he earned his relationship with God.

Grace has always been evident in Gods nature. always has been part of Who He is. What Grace is not, is what the masses in the world are running after because of the false teaching of Grace based on websters dictionary. Just Like Love, its not the worlds love that says I love you friend, its Jesus brand of Love, to lay down our selves for the sake of others.

Satan has no power to change what God said, His method is to change our thinking of what Gods word means.

lol.. Yep. And he uses mans wisdom to do just that. He tickles mans fancy, and they fall hook line and sinker. That's why he is called the great deceiver.

 

[John146]

this judgement seat of Christ?
So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.


yeah, ive heard of it, ive also heard of the interpretation of Grace regardless of sin in a persons life. I also see the person who is in Christ is a new creation already, the old has gone already. the sinner is gone already, the righteousness has come already. I also see the rest of what Gods word says. have you heard of the justification and what God did in His forebearance? forgiving the sins commited BEFOREHAND?? there are no scriptures saying the sins we commit as a believer are already forgiven. that forgiveness is found IN CHRIST. and is based on BY JESUS CHRISTS OWN WORDS. "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your father in heaven will forgive you your sins, if you DO NOT FORGIVE you brother, your Father will NOT FORGIVE YOUR SINS." these are the words of the one who will be ON that judgement seat you are speaking of. there is much more thatn a forced salvation in Gods word. MUCH more. in Christ there are conditions for forgiveness. read the parable of the unforgiving debtor, read the Lords prayer lol.

to say I believe, is not an unconditional forgiveness for whatever SINS a believer commits, in no way are we already forgiven. Notice your quote, Take AWAY their sins. Not pardon them in their sin, he doesn't use the term washed their robes or made them white to just ignore sin because of the worldly definition of Grace, Sorry, misunderstanding Paul, DOES not exclude the words of the Judge. there is plenty forgiveness available to Christians....it is solely based on forgiveing others Which is TAUGHT BY THE KING, THE SAVIOR THE JUDGE.

you guys are just impossible to discuss anything with at all, if something doesn't go with your own idea, you are willing to dismiss JESUS idea because jp says it doesn't apply.....Naw, nope, no way I will ever omit Jesus, His words are Life, freedom, spirit, TRUTH and all the grace available in Gods word is found in Jesus Christ, the ONLY GOSPEL, the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ. sins are forgiven through repentance, confession and also.....the measure of forgiveness a believer is willing to give others AS JESUS TEACHES. I'm not into mans theorys, I trust Jesus and Gods design alone.

that being said, did you even grasp this op? there is more to God than His wonderful Grace. to say different is to omit a great part of His own word which ill never do, its way too clear. bless you tho

Your words are leading me to believe that what Paul spoke is not the words of the Lord. Are you a "red letter" Christian?

Also, what's the JSOC for if all believers are obedient all the time? What are believers being judged for? How can a believer suffer loss and yet be saved? 1 Corinthians 3.

Some believers, the Corinthians as example, were not obedient in all things, far from it. They were living carnal, worldly lives. Yet Scripture reminded them that they were washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord our God and by His Spirit.