Is there ONLY Grace or are we seeing what we want to see?

[followjesus]

I agree, Grace is not given to people who earn it, Or just people you lie (the words way) but to all, but that does not mean all will accept it..



No, that's not grace, that's works. And jesus never said this, Jesus said forgive 70 X 7 whether your brother asked for forgiveness or not.





I agree, it is mistaught, and why so many people are struggling, Because they can not understand grace was paid for by Christ, but people want to pay for it themselves. Think they did something to earn it.. Which is human nature, and why so many buy into it..

A good lie is useless if it does not work A lie that speaks to our nature is a master peace. Because people will be fooled into believing it.



Um no. Mankind was not created in sin, Adam before the fall did not need grace, he earned his relationship with God.



lol.. Yep. And he uses mans wisdom to do just that. He tickles mans fancy, and they fall hook line and sinker. That's why he is called the great deceiver.

Jesus never said to obey His commands??? have you ever read the gospel? or do you like so many stick with paul? naw its not unwarranted favor, saved no matter what, sorry, that's not Jesus.

john 14:15-23 "“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

jesus never said that??? again

john 15:5-17 "
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other."

so how is it a person remains in Jesus?? hmm what else didn't he say?
notice this is AFTER the resurrection...
matthew 28:18-20 "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

this kind of comment is exactly WHY the grace doctrine blinds people, trying to be saved through paul doesn't happen, Gotta go to the Savior and His words. either you are just lying about what "jesus didn't say" or you don't know because you hear " saved by grace" and don't ever actual look or believe Jesus words. either way you should never question what Jesus said. look at His own words in your own Bible if you want to see Grace. what else did I say that " jesus didnt say?"

matthew 6:14-15 "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."


every single word here Jesus said its written in your own Bible. this is why the grace grace folk, are impossible to discuss anything with. the answer I usually get is " well he said that but it doesn't apply to Christians lol its all about what we do, Grace made it possible. I can quote Jesus every word because I spend my life following Hois word. sorry to disappoint but really its just slander thpose type of comments. look at Jesus words written in your own bible if you want to say what he said or didn't say[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]

 

[followjesus]

Your words are leading me to believe that what Paul spoke is not the words of the Lord. Are you a "red letter" Christian?

Also, what's the JSOC for if all believers are obedient all the time? What are believers being judged for? How can a believer suffer loss and yet be saved? 1 Corinthians 3.

Some believers, the Corinthians as example, were not obedient in all things, far from it. They were living carnal, worldly lives. Yet Scripture reminded them that they were washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord our God and by His Spirit.

naw like usual you guys twist and ask about things I didn't say because in reality every Christian is a follower of Jesus. paul just taught us that were able to follow Jesus, he just enables through his knowledge us to follow lol. no excuse left for not following Jesus if a person goes to paul.

a red letter Christian, yeah I don't follow paul for salvation, that's not His purpose, he was a servant of Jesus like were all supposed to be. but again the grace grace doctrine doesn't allow you guys to accept the Truth,

Jesus also spoke clearly of Judgement based on WHAT WE DO. Just like paul, just Like peter, just like John. so yeah....


have a nice day with the doctrine folk, I trust My Savior, and I understand what paul is saying and don't pick and choose as this post is about. paul doesn't teach the same grace as the doctrine of today. Grace is not defined without the teachings of Jesus. someone is not IN CHRIST until they accept His words and do what they are telling us clearly to DO.

Luke 6 :46-49 " “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete

pretty clear what the DUTY of a Christian is

 

[followjesus]

I agree, Grace is not given to people who earn it, Or just people you lie (the words way) but to all, but that does not mean all will accept it..



No, that's not grace, that's works. And jesus never said this, Jesus said forgive 70 X 7 whether your brother asked for forgiveness or not.





I agree, it is mistaught, and why so many people are struggling, Because they can not understand grace was paid for by Christ, but people want to pay for it themselves. Think they did something to earn it.. Which is human nature, and why so many buy into it..

A good lie is useless if it does not work A lie that speaks to our nature is a master peace. Because people will be fooled into believing it.



Um no. Mankind was not created in sin, Adam before the fall did not need grace, he earned his relationship with God.



lol.. Yep. And he uses mans wisdom to do just that. He tickles mans fancy, and they fall hook line and sinker. That's why he is called the great deceiver.

another thiong on forgiveness if you wish...and btw your accusations are silly you aren't even convincing in the twisting like others can sometimes be,..anywhoser..yeah forgiveness.

matthew 18:21-35 ( Notice verse 35 after reading the parable)Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
“At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
“But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
“His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
“But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.
“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”



not that any of you guys will actual accept what JESUS says but anyways just incase ......and its a waste of time to argue with me as your comments are obviously meant to do, so lets not waste anymore time bless you Hope you end up with Jesus words meaning more than mistaken doctrines built on misunderstood quotes of paul. salvation is found in No other Name But Jesus

 

[John146]

naw like usual you guys twist and ask about things I didn't say because in reality every Christian is a follower of Jesus. paul just taught us that were able to follow Jesus, he just enables through his knowledge us to follow lol. no excuse left for not following Jesus if a person goes to paul.

a red letter Christian, yeah I don't follow paul for salvation, that's not His purpose, he was a servant of Jesus like were all supposed to be. but again the grace grace doctrine doesn't allow you guys to accept the Truth,

Jesus also spoke clearly of Judgement based on WHAT WE DO. Just like paul, just Like peter, just like John. so yeah....


have a nice day with the doctrine folk, I trust My Savior, and I understand what paul is saying and don't pick and choose as this post is about. paul doesn't teach the same grace as the doctrine of today. Grace is not defined without the teachings of Jesus. someone is not IN CHRIST until they accept His words and do what they are telling us clearly to DO.

Luke 6 :46-49 " “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete

pretty clear what the DUTY of a Christian is

What's the JSOC for? What's being judged?

 

[followjesus]

Your words are leading me to believe that what Paul spoke is not the words of the Lord. Are you a "red letter" Christian?

Also, what's the JSOC for if all believers are obedient all the time? What are believers being judged for? How can a believer suffer loss and yet be saved? 1 Corinthians 3.

as usual you don't even see what I said to begin with, its not about perfection, its about mercy, be merciful, and receive mercy. forgive and be forgiven. God already forgave our past, and IN CHRIST there is perfect provision for forgiveness. its condition is plainly stated in the several scriptures I just left in response. its not that were already forgiven future like the false doctrines of folks who have no understanding of paul see, its like Jesus sets forth plainly. forgive and you will be forgiven. that's a pretty easy condition and pretty clearly stated several times. " if you forgive God will then forgive you, if you do not forgive, God will not forgive you" simple, easy stuff....paul is confusing when a person doesn't Know the words of Jesus first

Some believers, the Corinthians as example, were not obedient in all things, far from it. They were living carnal, worldly lives. Yet Scripture reminded them that they were washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord our God and by His Spirit

 

[followjesus]

Your words are leading me to believe that what Paul spoke is not the words of the Lord. Are you a "red letter" Christian?

Also, what's the JSOC for if all believers are obedient all the time? What are believers being judged for? How can a believer suffer loss and yet be saved? 1 Corinthians 3.

as usual you don't even see what I said to begin with, its not about perfection, its about mercy, be merciful, and receive mercy. forgive and be forgiven. God already forgave our past, and IN CHRIST there is perfect provision for forgiveness. its condition is plainly stated in the several scriptures I just left in response. its not that were already forgiven future like the false doctrines of folks who have no understanding of paul see, its like Jesus sets forth plainly. forgive and you will be forgiven. that's a pretty easy condition and pretty clearly stated several times. " if you forgive God will then forgive you, if you do not forgive, God will not forgive you" simple, easy stuff....paul is confusing when a person doesn't Know the words of Jesus first

Some believers, the Corinthians as example, were not obedient in all things, far from it. They were living carnal, worldly lives. Yet Scripture reminded them that they were washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord our God and by His Spirit

somehow I got in the middle of your statement just to be clear I DID NOT WRITE THE THINGS ABOUT THE CORINTHIANS. lol

 

[Grace777x70]

I don't see where Peter or Paul preached to people and said " Before God will forgive you - you have to make sure you have forgiven others"? That is not the gospel.

We have word for word accounts of the real gospel of the grace of Christ being preached by Peter and Paul and not once is this you have to forgive before you are forgiven is preached. In fact the very opposite is.

Here's Peter....shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"?

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ?


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out ( neither will you be forgiven if you don't forgive ) for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?

The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

 

[followjesus]

What's the JSOC for? What's being judged?

its right there in the scriptures friend, just like its repeated in the Bible over and over. Bieng a Christian DOES NOT absolve us from judgement, we are judged on what we do whether good or bad, and will receive accordingly what we do, good or Bad. the doctrine that says " saying I believe" saves anyone is false. it blinds folk who accept it. go compare that doctrine with the things Jesus Christ says clearly in the 4 gospel accounts.

paul doesn't just say it here in Corinthians letters, he says it again and again. he never taght what you all think he did. hes just hard to understand. Gotta first go get the spirit from Jesus words, then paul makes perfect sense and there is great power to live right in his revelation of not grace, but the power of the atonement. in short pauls message " you died through the death of Christ, now you are dead to the sin you used to follow as a sinner. you are also raised to a new life, able to follow the commands of Jesus as Jesus himself says repeatedly. as also he warns repeatedly of the folk who take his name and do not accept His words. it doesn't end well for them according to Jesus. study the true gospel for a month and see if grace is understood by most. that's a friendly challenge. go to Jesus words, and then see how the doctrine of once saved always saved sounds to you, it will change your life

 

[followjesus]

I don't see where Peter or Paul preached to people and said " Before God will forgive you - you have to make sure you have forgiven others"? That is not the gospel.

We have word for word accounts of the real gospel of the grace of Christ being preached by Peter and Paul and not once is this you have to forgive before you are forgiven is preached. In fact the very opposite is.

Here's Peter....shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"?

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ?


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out ( neither will you be forgiven if you don't forgive ) for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?

The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

bruce, I don't follow joseph prince. sorry. Jesus words are every one commanded before and after the crucifixion, have no interest in this same debate with you. Jesus is the Savior, the Lord, the only one who can save. the only place to find the "spirit" you all talk of is in the words, the living and active words of Jesus Christ which are " spirit and Life"

sorry man your doctrinal beliefs are not in line with Gods design which is trusting JESUS including His words. you've rejected every word jesus speaks if it doesn't agree with joseph princes gog doctrine. Hes just selling books, people don't like to hear the actual gospel, thay want a free unconditional everlasting life that they can live and serve themselves. its everyones choice, the truth doesn't sell books...it saves Lives and eternal lives at that. Jesus is the only name. again for the 11th time probly, you and I are looking at 2 completely different doctrines. I chose Jesus years back, no reason to change every words He says is true if someone will do what HE SAYS to DO. Ive tested and tried it, it never fails. that's why ill never turn from Jesus. sorry man to disagree, it is what it is. peace to you

 

[John146]

its right there in the scriptures friend, just like its repeated in the Bible over and over. Bieng a Christian DOES NOT absolve us from judgement, we are judged on what we do whether good or bad, and will receive accordingly what we do, good or Bad. the doctrine that says " saying I believe" saves anyone is false. it blinds folk who accept it. go compare that doctrine with the things Jesus Christ says clearly in the 4 gospel accounts.

paul doesn't just say it here in Corinthians letters, he says it again and again. he never taght what you all think he did. hes just hard to understand. Gotta first go get the spirit from Jesus words, then paul makes perfect sense and there is great power to live right in his revelation of not grace, but the power of the atonement. in short pauls message " you died through the death of Christ, now you are dead to the sin you used to follow as a sinner. you are also raised to a new life, able to follow the commands of Jesus as Jesus himself says repeatedly. as also he warns repeatedly of the folk who take his name and do not accept His words. it doesn't end well for them according to Jesus. study the true gospel for a month and see if grace is understood by most. that's a friendly challenge. go to Jesus words, and then see how the doctrine of once saved always saved sounds to you, it will change your life

1 Corinthians 3:

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Some believers will receive rewards for a life serving the Lord. Some believers will suffer loss of rewards based upon a life of carnal living and not doing the will of the Lord. Why are the saved? Because their foundation was in Jesus Christ. The foundation of Jesus Christ never waivers even when we do.

 

[followjesus]

I don't see where Peter or Paul preached to people and said " Before God will forgive you - you have to make sure you have forgiven others"? That is not the gospel.

We have word for word accounts of the real gospel of the grace of Christ being preached by Peter and Paul and not once is this you have to forgive before you are forgiven is preached. In fact the very opposite is.

Here's Peter....shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"?

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ?


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out ( neither will you be forgiven if you don't forgive ) for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?

The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

we do have all you say IN HIM. go find out what IN CHRIST actually means and youll have it. I don't need to omit paul bro, I understand how He fits with Jesus, the doctrine you try to teach, has to omit the things that prove its false. big difference. pauls words are true, they are misquoted and not understood if they aren't fitting with Jesus. HIS WORDS ARE ETERNAL they will never be irrelevant He says it also HIMSELF. The gospel of JESUS the CHRIST is salvation

 

[followjesus]

1 Corinthians 3:

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Some believers will receive rewards for a life serving the Lord. Some believers will suffer loss of rewards based upon a life of carnal living and not doing the will of the Lord. Why are the saved? Because their foundation was in Jesus Christ. The foundation of Jesus Christ never waivers even when we do.

the jsoc as you are calling it perfect image of it from the King Himself, the Judge matthew

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


does that not sound accurate? eternal life, eternal punishment...go to the source of salvation and all else will fall into place bless you

 

[followjesus]

the jsoc as you are calling it perfect image of it from the King Himself, the Judge matthew

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


does that not sound accurate? eternal life, eternal punishment...go to the source of salvation and all else will fall into place bless you

matthew chapter 25. clear picture of the jsoc lol from the one who knows in your own bible His words should be the ones your looking at to understand the rest

 

[followjesus]

matthew chapter 25. clear picture of the jsoc lol from the one who knows in your own bible His words should be the ones your looking at to understand the rest

or look at the wicked servants their place at Judgement is "torn to pieces" or in another place " weeping and gnashing of teeth, where the worm will not die nor thirst will be quenched. Go to JESUS words. He is RIGHT. nothing to do with me or anyone else, its JESUS. Hes there he provides forgiveness, its Just NOT as the doctrine you are trying to hold to says. Jesus has the answers for all the questions known in scripture, all Gods wisdom all salvation, the spirit, the Life is ALL in Jesus and His words. Trust him, he doesn't lie, lead astray or fail. Hes worthy of trusting what He says

 

[John146]

or look at the wicked servants their place at Judgement is "torn to pieces" or in another place " weeping and gnashing of teeth, where the worm will not die nor thirst will be quenched. Go to JESUS words. He is RIGHT. nothing to do with me or anyone else, its JESUS. Hes there he provides forgiveness, its Just NOT as the doctrine you are trying to hold to says. Jesus has the answers for all the questions known in scripture, all Gods wisdom all salvation, the spirit, the Life is ALL in Jesus and His words. Trust him, he doesn't lie, lead astray or fail. Hes worthy of trusting what He says

I'm sorry, that's not the JSOC. That is end times stuff with the coming of the Lord's physical kingdom on earth to fulfill the Davidic covenant to Israel. The rapture of the church will have already occurred before Matthew 25.

Jesus does have the answer to the JSOC. He gave it the Apostle Paul as the spokesman to the Gentiles to teach the body of Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

bruce, I don't follow joseph prince. sorry. Jesus words are every one commanded before and after the crucifixion, have no interest in this same debate with you. Jesus is the Savior, the Lord, the only one who can save. the only place to find the "spirit" you all talk of is in the words, the living and active words of Jesus Christ which are " spirit and Life"

sorry man your doctrinal beliefs are not in line with Gods design which is trusting JESUS including His words. you've rejected every word jesus speaks if it doesn't agree with joseph princes gog doctrine. Hes just selling books, people don't like to hear the actual gospel, thay want a free unconditional everlasting life that they can live and serve themselves. its everyones choice, the truth doesn't sell books...it saves Lives and eternal lives at that. Jesus is the only name. again for the 11th time probly, you and I are looking at 2 completely different doctrines. I chose Jesus years back, no reason to change every words He says is true if someone will do what HE SAYS to DO. Ive tested and tried it, it never fails. that's why ill never turn from Jesus. sorry man to disagree, it is what it is. peace to you

They are called Peter and Paul....not someone else preaching....both apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ sent to preach the gospel after the Cross...they are word for word accounts of the real gospel being preached and they did not say " Before you can be forgiven - you need to forgive first ".

I realize that the true gospel that was preached after Jesus died and rose from the grave for our forgiveness of sins is against what you believe but the word-for-word accounts of the gospel being preached is proof of the reality of our Lord's great salvation and redemption for us.

You are not turning from Jesus - you are turning towards Him when you believe in His complete redemption for you! If we don't rightly divide the word of God we will continue to mix the true gospel up and make a mess of it.

 

[BeyondET]

or look at the wicked servants their place at Judgement is "torn to pieces" or in another place " weeping and gnashing of teeth, where the worm will not die nor thirst will be quenched. Go to JESUS words. He is RIGHT. nothing to do with me or anyone else, its JESUS. Hes there he provides forgiveness, its Just NOT as the doctrine you are trying to hold to says. Jesus has the answers for all the questions known in scripture, all Gods wisdom all salvation, the spirit, the Life is ALL in Jesus and His words. Trust him, he doesn't lie, lead astray or fail. Hes worthy of trusting what He says

There's a song called (torn to pieces)

 

[John146]

They are called Peter and Paul....not someone else preaching....both apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ sent to preach the gospel after the Cross...they are word for word accounts of the real gospel being preached and they did not say " Before you can be forgiven - you need to forgive first ".

I realize that the true gospel that was preached after Jesus died and rose from the grave for our forgiveness of sins is against what you believe but the word-for-word accounts of the gospel being preached is proof of the reality of our Lord's great salvation and redemption for us.

You are not turning from Jesus - you are turning towards Him when you believe in His complete redemption for you! If we don't rightly divide the word of God we will continue to mix the true gospel up and make a mess of it.

The few times the Lord did tell of His death and resurrection the disciples walked away not knowing what He was talking about. As a matter of fact, Peter rebuked the Lord on one occasion for speaking such words. The Gospel in it's entirety and the doctrine for the church can be found in Paul's 13 epistles.

 

[Ahwatukee]

the jsoc as you are calling it perfect image of it from the King Himself, the Judge matthew

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


does that not sound accurate? eternal life, eternal punishment...go to the source of salvation and all else will fall into place bless you

Greetings followJesus,

Just FYI, the scripture that you posted above takes place when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. There will be a judgment of the sheep and the goats, which are those great tribulation saints who will have made it alive through the end of that seven year period and will be judged based on those qualities mentioned above. The church is not apart of the judgment of the sheep and the goats, as we will have already been judged at the Bema seat of Christ prior to God's wrath being poured out. When we are judged it will not be for sin, but to receive reward or to suffer loss of reward.

The true Christian is saved by trusting in Christ as the One who alone provided salvation by His work on the cross and not by anything that we can do. The true believer is walking in Christ and being led by the Spirit. As we continue going from faith to faith we are being transformed into His image, being sanctified by the Holy Spirit, which is the life-long process of being made holy. When we sin, if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Our salvation is not based on works, but on faith in Christ as the One who alone purchased mankind for God with His own blood. As we walk in Christ the Spirit is going to bring to our attention whatever is not pleasing to God in our lives, which again is the process of being transformed into his image.

 

[followjesus]

I'm sorry, that's not the JSOC. That is end times stuff with the coming of the Lord's physical kingdom on earth to fulfill the Davidic covenant to Israel. The rapture of the church will have already occurred before Matthew 25.

Jesus does have the answer to the JSOC. He gave it the Apostle Paul as the spokesman to the Gentiles to teach the body of Christ.

yeah, that's the false gog doctrine speaking, the one that cant see lol. that is absolutely the Judgement of Christ for the Church. but again nothing against you guys, just Hate the false doctrines built on misunderstanding paul. Jesus is the One, His words. spirit and Life, His words that will never pass away even when heaven and earth do, Jesus words will now, then and forever apply in , around, through Gods Kingdom, there is Only One name. and about His words ? " In the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the word was God." In the beginning the Word was Jesus, and the word was with Jesus, and the word Was Jesus.

does paul ever say His words are spirit? or Life? Jesus does. Does paul ever claim " salvation through paul? Nope. infact He scorns a group for even saying they follow Him, thanks God that He didn't baptize them so they couldn't say they followed paul. John never says you can be saved through me, nor does peter, moses, or anyone else. Who else is named Gods Word? who else is name the way, the truth, the Life? who says " if anyone is ashamed of me or MY WORDS the Son of man will also be ashamed of Him?" Jesus said it, who else says " He who has my commands and practices them, He is the one who Loves me"? and my Father will also Love Him? does paul say that????

Naw, paul spent His life trying to be like Jesus, trying to Know Jesus, He considered EVERYTHING else RUBBLE compared to the surpassing greatness of Knowing ChRIST jESUS His Lord. shall I continue? yeah I should.

Where is salvation found? Jesus One place, One name Jesus. Who are Christians to follow? Jesus. what was Pauls purpose? to bring gentiles AND Jews into obedience of the Only True Gospel. Not the gog, But the Gospel approved By God, sent through His Son. Jude ??? taught Jesus commands, john?? taught Jesus commands, james? taught Jesus commands. Jesus ? taught Jesus commands. Paul? taught obedience to Jesus Christ, not paul. its as if you all think those churches were established without the words Of Jesus. paul knew the gospel, that's why He was sent to bring People into obedience through Jesus. the spirit is found In Jesus words, no where else. that Church he said " you haven't heard" that hadn't received the spirit yet? they already were established with the gospel, all the earl;y church knew the 4 gospels, their Leaders WROTE those Gospels, first hand accounts. No one will ever be saved through paul, they can and will be saved through Jesus Christ alone. the only name available for salvation. and to accept Jesus INCLUDES taking His words as Truth.

Bruce always highlights my issue with the gog. anything Jesus said that jp doesn't agree with, is "not for Christians" its pre cross yet ive shown many many times the great commission " go teach ALL NATIONS TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU' the doctrine warps the mind against Jesus and calls it "trusting in Jesus" just not the words of Jesus tho, has to be only the interpretations of a few plucked out , misunderstood verses of Paul. Paul spoke truth, he is just hard to grasp unless a person trusts Jesus first, His words. then paul makes perfect sense.

I see another fruitless argument, have peace in your heart and choose as you will. I have chosen already, and Jesus Proves His self to those who choose Him, there is no way to disprove that. If a person will take Jesus words to heart and stand firm, learning and seeing He, himself saying "do this" then they will see the truth and the truth will set them free." <another word of Jesus Himself.

Bless you, it could be best if you guys took my cue how I stay clear of the gog threads to avoid arguments. your all welcome to post on any thread, but I already am inseperable from Faith in Jesus and His ways and teachings. no misquoted scriptures or deceived thinking will ever pull me away now, Jesus already proved the Truth in My Life. and He will do it tomorrow and the next day and the next....all the way into eternity.


Listen. Jesus already did enough for us don't you think? He was rejected, falsely accused, SPIT on, beaten repeatedly, mocked, made a spectacle of, spit on again, insulted, whipped, drug our cross up a hill, where He willingly accepted the nails driven through the bones in His hands and feet, was lifted as a spectacle for onlookers, mocked and insulted again, where He forgave us, and slowly died over 6 hours of agony. that's enough, Hes done enogh of our work, He didn't stop there tho. He went and crushed death and hades, took the keys to eternal Life and rose again, all to make us new and clean, forgiven By the Lord justified, born again children. that's where grace ends friend, and who among men is going to complain and say He didn't do enough??? that doctrine is insulting to me. anyone who denys Jesus or His words, insult me deeply. I see its deception oi see people fall into it and who its from.


time for the believers to Choose Jesus.