If it's by works then I'm doomed !

[Grace777x70]

Paul focuses on our "position in Christ" so many times, Over and over he tells us to remember what we have in Jesus,, He tells us to focus on the things above :eternal things" not on the things below "temporal things" and if we do these things, we will see life changing results.

Gratitude based on thanksgiving is the basis of the christian walk. For without it we are self sucking organisms who are always out trying to suck in worldy things because we are empty.

Out of this sucking vortexes comes drug addiction, Sex addiction, Greed, Jealousy, Anger, and all sorts of sin. As paul said, these people will not inherit And such were some of you. That was our old nature, because we were forced to try to fill our own emptiness,

Out of our new nature comes thanksgiving, gratitude for what God has done. Paul says in phil 4 that we are to rejoice always Rejoice of what? Our God who has saved us, and given us the spirit of God in our hearts, WHo has filled out emptiness, Who has changed us, and given us an inheritance which does not fade or pass away. To live a live of thankfulness, And faith, Knowing God has and will supply all you need, and the peace of God which surpasses all comprehension will guard our hearts and minds.

This is counter culture and our world today would not want this at all. A person who is satisfied, and knows his needs are met does not need things, Thus they will not go out and purchase all these things they do not need (not like we do anyway) and this would hurt the economy which is consumer focused..

Imagine knowing your love tank is full, Knowing and trusting that all your needs are met, Knowing you are free to give, becayse you do not need to take, Love and Giving becomes a second nature, Sin is no longer in control. because sin is self centered, and we do not need to take care of self. People are drawn to us, because they see us satisfied no matter what happens, They know we will not try to take from them, so they are open, this allows us to share Christ. Because they want what we have.

All of this is based on eternal security in Christ, Remove eternal life and our eternal perspective, and all this crashes.

The religious want to do it on their own, thats why they teach obedience 24/7, because it is all they have, they try to fill their emptiness with empty religious effort and because it does not work, they get angry, and judgmental. And start picking things to judge, telling the world. we are not like you, we do not do these sin, you must stop and join us or you will suffer the eternal death.

Well that has not changed a person and made them more christ like in 6000 years.. It did not work for the jews, and has not worked for the church in 2000 years. It will never work, Because it does not fill our basic need, Only Christ can do that, And only based on the cross.

If I could "like" this a hundred times I would..this spells out exactly what is going on...well said EG!

 

[JennaLeanne]

James 1:14-15 "But each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has concieved, gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full grown, gives birth to death."

If you read that whole chapter, it in no way excludes the believers from this. Once again, I read a warning to those who believe to be watchful of sin and temptation.

Also, the idea that the believer just cant sin is not biblical. That would elevate us higher than all other people. As if we are better than they are. We do not repent because we cannot sin. We are very capable of falling back into sinful living, and we must be watchful and pray to Him often to keep our hearts focused on Him.

Yes by abiding in his truth.. The truth of what ? That sin is a liar.. Only when we have the revelation that we are dead to sin through him are we able to say no to sin... The fight is in the rest... Knowing that our old self is no longer who we are.. Sin is not just something we did it who we were. How can we be new creations born again of the spirit of the living God but still be sinners? It's renewing your mind to this that makes us stand against the lies of the flesh.. Carnal nature and desires... Sin focus makes us sin.. Jesus focused makes us free

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree, so many times in here people cut and past scripture and scripture and then tell us we are wrong. and this proves them right, When the scripture they post (usually a whole page full. way to much to even start to try to discuss) does not even support their theories, but are bunches of little verses taken out of context to prove a point.

I can make scripture say anything, all I have to do is pull a verse here and there.. and i have a doctrine truth. That is how satan has worked from the begining..

Amen..I have shown this very process in a past post that "anyone who has sinned against God is blotted out of the book" ( Ex 32:33 ) where one can "string" a bunch of unrelated scriptures taken out of context from both the Old Testament and the New "to prove" my original theory. Not of those scriptures of course factor in the completed work of Christ.

 

[Messy]

I don't even read those discussions anymore. I get great sermons on it in church. Let not so many be teachers.
Once he even broke it off of me, the influence of false teaching, because I read so many law grace discussions on internet from people who aren't even called to preach. Once in a while you read something great, but most of the time nope. A servant shouldn't fight, so if they fight doctrin and can't even stay decent no thanks. Teaching is not only talking, if you do you should be able to help someone and set them free if necessary. I was on another forum. They don't even listen and it's not my job.

 

[JennaLeanne]

There's no argument (with me) when words like this are spoken.

Thank you brother xxx

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Yes by abiding in his truth.. The truth of what ? That sin is a liar.. Only when we have the revelation that we are dead to sin through him are we able to say no to sin... The fight is in the rest... Knowing that our old self is no longer who we are.. Sin is not just something we did it who we were. How can we be new creations born again of the spirit of the living God but still be sinners? It's renewing your mind to this that makes us stand against the lies of the flesh.. Carnal nature and desires... Sin focus makes us sin.. Jesus focused makes us free

I agree, keeping our hearts set on Him helps us keep away from living in sin. We must live our whole lives this way, careful not to walk away from Him and back into sinful living. If we walk from Him, we walk back to the old things that tempted us, and controlled our lives. Only through Him are we set free, and we must continue to walk with Him to be free, careful that we dont walk away from Him back to doing what we know is wrong.

James 1:22-26 "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word and does not do what it says is like someone who looks in a mirror and, after looking at himself, walks away and immediately forgets what they looked like. But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom- and continues in it- not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it- they will be blessed in what they do."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

James 1:14-15 "But each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has concieved, gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full grown, gives birth to death."

If you read that whole chapter, it in no way excludes the believers from this. Once again, I read a warning to those who believe to be watchful of sin and temptation.

Also, the idea that the believer just cant sin is not biblical. That would elevate us higher than all other people. As if we are better than they are. We do not repent because we cannot sin. We are very capable of falling back into sinful living, and we must be watchful and pray to Him often to keep our hearts focused on Him.

Not sure how you got ""free to sin" confused with "unable to sin" No one said what you are arguing against here. In fact, we have all said the opposite..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes by abiding in his truth.. The truth of what ? That sin is a liar.. Only when we have the revelation that we are dead to sin through him are we able to say no to sin... The fight is in the rest... Knowing that our old self is no longer who we are.. Sin is not just something we did it who we were. How can we be new creations born again of the spirit of the living God but still be sinners? It's renewing your mind to this that makes us stand against the lies of the flesh.. Carnal nature and desires... Sin focus makes us sin.. Jesus focused makes us free

Yes, Sin is an attempt to fill our emptiness, to be our own God. Gratitude removes the problem of sin, as we learn to trust God more and more in our lives.

It is a lifetime battle we all must wage, But God said he would make the fight easy,, and give us peace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree, keeping our hearts set on Him helps us keep away from living in sin. We must live our whole lives this way, careful not to walk away from Him and back into sinful living. If we walk from Him, we walk back to the old things that tempted us, and controlled our lives. Only through Him are we set free, and we must continue to walk with Him to be free, careful that we dont walk away from Him back to doing what we know is wrong.

James 1:22-26 "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word and does not do what it says is like someone who looks in a mirror and, after looking at himself, walks away and immediately forgets what they looked like. But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom- and continues in it- not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it- they will be blessed in what they do."

It is all based on faith and thanksgiving. Do we trust God, and are we grateful for what he has given us, Or do we lack faith, and full of ingratitude..

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

 

[JennaLeanne]

I agree, keeping our hearts set on Him helps us keep away from living in sin. We must live our whole lives this way, careful not to walk away from Him and back into sinful living. If we walk from Him, we walk back to the old things that tempted us, and controlled our lives. Only through Him are we set free, and we must continue to walk with Him to be free, careful that we dont walk away from Him back to doing what we know is wrong.

James 1:22-26 "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word and does not do what it says is like someone who looks in a mirror and, after looking at himself, walks away and immediately forgets what they looked like. But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom- and continues in it- not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it- they will be blessed in what they do."

Amen.. It's taking our eyes off the truth of our righteousness that makes us stumble.. The deception that makes us fall is not knowing who we truly are.. we perish through lack of knowledge.. In James 1:22-26 as you have quoted means the word as a whole.. Alot of times people like it to rules though shalt not.. instead of such scriptures that make us focus on out position in Christ.. When you know your position that you are seated far above principalities and powers. Seated in heavenly places at the right hand of the father then "sin" is not even a thought.. Because we are made perfect in love then love is our focus.. To a heart that knows love all things are pure.. Let sin not be our focus but let love be. The love that lays his life down for his friends xx

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Not sure how you got ""free to sin" confused with "unable to sin" No one said what you are arguing against here. In fact, we have all said the opposite..

Ive gotten plenty of "you dont need to worry about sin, you have been freed from sin by His grace", which is true, through His grace I have been saved from my sins. But that does not mean that I now do not need to worry about denying sin and temptation. I can still live a life of sin if I chose to do so, which is my entire point : p

The Lord can help you with sin, but I am still tempted by the enemy to sin. I know that I must continue in my walk with the Lord, and not go back into my old ways. So I know that I do still have to worry about not letting myself walk back into that life, following Him does not come automatically : p It is a choice I have to make.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen.. It's taking our eyes off the truth of our righteousness that makes us stumble.. The deception that makes us fall is not knowing who we truly are.. we perish through lack of knowledge.. In James 1:22-26 as you have quoted means the word as a whole.. Alot of times people like it to rules though shalt not.. instead of such scriptures that make us focus on out position in Christ.. When you know your position that you are seated far above principalities and powers. Seated in heavenly places at the right hand of the father then "sin" is not even a thought.. Because we are made perfect in love then love is our focus.. To a heart that knows love all things are pure.. Let sin not be our focus but let love be. The love that lays his life down for his friends xx

Amen sis, As paul said,

Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

We love because God loves us first, When we take that love in, we are able to give that love to others. Sin becomes an afterthought.

 

[Grace777x70]

i think part of the problem we've been having in this forum is the personification of grace... folks even spell it with a capital letter, as though it's a free floating commodity?

goodness, how dependent we are on the grace of God!
but love and grace are but two facets of God's nature as revealed in the Bible.

I agree...I can certainly see how this could cause a young Christian to make "mental assent " to some things of the Lord.

I love this quote below as it can show the potential for this mis-understanding:

This matters a great deal because grace will not bear fruit in your life if you think it is merely a concept or a doctrine. As Judah Smith said recently:

We shudder at the term grace because it has been so maligned, so abused, so misrepresented. We see grace as the get out of jail free card. “Oh yeah, I love me some grace man. I get my jiggy on in the weekend then I come back on Sunday and get me my grace on.” No, that’s not grace. You’ve met a concept, not a Person.”

I regularly encounter people who don’t know what grace is so they misuse it or they attack it. Just the other day someone wrote to tell me that too much preaching on grace leads to wrongdoing. That’s simply not possible when you have a proper understanding of grace. Grace no more leads to wrongdoing than love for your spouse will lead you to Ashley Madison.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes by abiding in his truth.. The truth of what ? That sin is a liar.. Only when we have the revelation that we are dead to sin through him are we able to say no to sin... The fight is in the rest... Knowing that our old self is no longer who we are.. Sin is not just something we did it who we were. How can we be new creations born again of the spirit of the living God but still be sinners? It's renewing your mind to this that makes us stand against the lies of the flesh.. Carnal nature and desires... Sin focus makes us sin.. Jesus focused makes us free

If I could "like" this a hundred times I would..as it is I have to spread some rep around before I can rep you..if we could just get a revelation of this one truth - our lives would change dramatically in Christ....well said.

 

[JennaLeanne]

Ive gotten plenty of "you dont need to worry about sin, you have been freed from sin by His grace", which is true, through His grace I have been saved from my sins. But that does not mean that I now do not need to worry about denying sin and temptation. I can still live a life of sin if I chose to do so, which is my entire point : p

The Lord can help you with sin, but I am still tempted by the enemy to sin. I know that I must continue in my walk with the Lord, and not go back into my old ways. So I know that I do still have to worry about not letting myself walk back into that life, following Him does not come automatically : p It is a choice I have to make.

This sounds very tiresome to me.. Like your focus is "I'm scared of sin I'm scared of sin" I was like this even 6 months ago... when we understand we are FREE from the clutches of sin there is no longer a fight with it. Jesus didn't say I came to free you half then u fight with sin all your life.. He said keeps your eyes fixed on me knowing that because of me u have the victory.. Then u will see the manifestation of what I have really done for you xx

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ive gotten plenty of "you dont need to worry about sin, you have been freed from sin by His grace", which is true, through His grace I have been saved from my sins. But that does not mean that I now do not need to worry about denying sin and temptation. I can still live a life of sin if I chose to do so, which is my entire point : p

The Lord can help you with sin, but I am still tempted by the enemy to sin. I know that I must continue in my walk with the Lord, and not go back into my old ways. So I know that I do still have to worry about not letting myself walk back into that life, following Him does not come automatically : p It is a choice I have to make.

You had to make a choice to trust him also. If you do not trust him to save your eternal soul, you will never trust him to change your life. and sin will always be an issue, or religion, there is no other option.

I agree, we must chose. But God promised to help us.. so we do not have to do it on our own, If we get off the path, He chastens us, to help us get back on, If we keep walking away, He keeps the chastening coming, Eventually through the pain, the suffering, and the guilt or conviction) if we are true sons) we will, like the prodigal son, return to our father, where he can start to shower us with his many blessings again, or (as was my case when I was a prodigal son) he will take us home (I was at the point I was ready to take my life, when God stepped in and I finally listened.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This sounds very tiresome to me.. Like your focus is "I'm scared of sin I'm scared of sin" I was like this even 6 months ago... when we understand we are FREE from the clutches of sin there is no longer a fight with it. Jesus didn't say I came to free you half then u fight with sin all your life.. He said keeps your eyes fixed on me knowing that because of me u have the victory.. Then u will see the manifestation of what I have really done for you xx

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

In the history of mankind, Fear has never worked to make a person stop sinning, All it could do was make a person stop doingn somethign they loved,, then hate the rule maker (even they would probably never admit this, even to themselves )

 

[JennaLeanne]

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

In the history of mankind, Fear has never worked to make a person stop sinning, All it could do was make a person stop doingn somethign they loved,, then hate the rule maker (even they would probably never admit this, even to themselves )

Praise God !! Love all u have to say xxx

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

i think part of the problem we've been having in this forum is the personification of grace... folks even spell it with a capital letter, as though it's a free floating commodity?

goodness, how dependent we are on the grace of God!
but love and grace are but two facets of God's nature as revealed in the Bible.

Christian heretics in the early church thought that grace was a spiritual substance that descended from above in a mystical conjunction that restored their divinity.

Against Heresies

4. And committing many other abominations and impieties, they run us [of the Church] down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. For [the gnostic heretics] declare that we simply receive grace for use [in sanctification], wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them. ... On this account, they tell us that it is necessary for us [of the Church] whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation [of heaven], but that to [the gnostic heretics] who are called "the spiritual and perfect" [by themselves] such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [heaven], but [it is] the seed [of grace] sent forth thence [from heaven] in a feeble, immature state, and here [on earth] brought to perfection. ​

 

[BeyondET]

If God is love then grace is who he is also.. Its all one the character of a person is what makes us who we are..

Exactly that was my thoughts also