Why Joseph Prince is a Cancerous Growth within God's People

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crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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what is this thread about?

A hated attack on someone who can not defend himself,

as for post 611. He claimed a truth of God, and that's a bad thing?


He spoke of the faith rest life, Did not jesus promise us rest if we trust in him? Having a changed life is based on rest, If we rest in him, our sin issues will lesson. The law is not going to help us over come sin as the legalist want us to believe.

I am sorry bro, but I think your reading things which are not there.

I don't think I've said anything about Prince on this thread. My point is that the hyper grace people are mainly stating half the truth...the indicatives e.g. Rom 3-8 but handily sweep the imperatives (e.g. Rom 12-16) under the rug or they will be fulfilled in you by 'remembering who you are in Christ'.
Jesus spoke of rest but also spoke of coming to Him, take his yoke and learn of Him.
Law? Who mention that?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'd just like to add to your post because it might bless you tremendously.

Repenting of a sin, means to turn away from it, but also to turn toward truth.

Jesus said repent for the Kingdom of God is in front of you.

The Kingdom is His reign and rule. And we are freed by truth. We know this because He said and the truth shall set you free. Because whom the Son sets free is free indeed. One thing I've learned is that it's not enough to just repent from sin, we also need to know the truth that sets us completely free.

For instance, I dealt with fear a lot, I was so attacked, I had depression, worry, panic attacks, etc. It wasn't until I learned that PEACE was to reign in my mind and that God didn't give me a spirit of fear, that I was able to distinguish what a spirit of fear was and I wasn't the problem.

So I didn't want fear, I knew fear wasn't from God, but knowing peace allowed me to fully repent (change my mind) and agree with truth (Kingdom) to see it manifest (parable of 4 condition of hearts explain this).

C.

it goes to the indicative/imperative idea crossnote brough up

Truth is the indicative, If we do not have the truth, and trust it, we will never do the imperative..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You're a good salesman, but you're being either dishonest or naive. Hyper grace teaches that Christ's imperative to forgive so that we can be forgiven can be ignored. It also also teaches that acknowledgment of sin is not necessary to be cleansed of sin (1 John 1:9).

It's just a sales pitch, that's all.

No, that's just your false interpretation of it..

Like Gnosticism, You put everyone in groups. and base your judgment on these groups. and not what they actually claim to believe.


You just called a man a liar, and stated you know him better than he does himself. You should be ashamed!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't think I've said anything about Prince on this thread.
I have yet to say anything against him, I agree, you just ask what the op was about bro..

My point is that the hyper grace people are mainly stating half the truth...the indicatives e.g. Rom 3-8 but handily sweep the imperatives (e.g. Rom 12-16) under the rug or they will be fulfilled in you by 'remembering who you are in Christ'.
Jesus spoke of rest but also spoke of coming to Him, take his yoke and learn of Him.
Law? Who mention that?

I think you may have heard a few people tell you this is what they believe, and have done what some others in here have done and taken their word for it..

That's why I said this thread is so wrong,, It makes false judgments on a person who can't even defend himself. However, I have seen these same accusations brought against certain people in this thread. And have even made them myself to question some things, And these same people always come out not believeing what people say they believe.

Like PETER who always say I believe something, but I never do. Same with HRFTD.. I think people have bought into a lie. and keep running with it.

I am not saying I agree with everything they preach (I am certainly not health and wealth or charismatic) but I see nothing wrong with their gospel. they believe as you and I do.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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As you ask God who He is, who tells you who you are.

As you see Him, you see Who's image you were made in.

Our life is hid in Him. It is not I who live, but Christ in me. These are the words of Paul. What do you think he meant?

Let me try it this way:

1 Co 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

Are you one spirit with the Lord?
Is as Christ is so are you in the world?

Let's try the red letters.

John 17:20“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

What you call nonsensical is actually right out of Scripture.

C.


And this is precisely the kind of equivocation that characterizes hyper grace doctrine. Focus on your identity of who you really are in Christ. But really we're not looking at ourselves, we're looking at Christ. It's just nonsensical garbage.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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This is incorrect.

And this is for EVERYONE on this thread who continually misrepresents my position. Not just you.

Cuz I have no problem with you (or any of you) :)

The hyper-grace crowd as you call them, believe that the indicatives empower them to follow the imperatives.

Where as others believe the imperatives REPLACE the indicatives.
Equally this is incorrect. The indicatives do not empower us. His Holy Spirit empowers us.
Also I do not believe the imperatives replace the indicatives. The indicatives are our basis for the imperatives.

...See how easily this game is played?
Set up straw men which easily gets blown over.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
So, totally derailed to going back to the same ole same old? Cool. I'm out of here.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Equally this is incorrect. The indicatives do not empower us. His Holy Spirit empowers us.
Also I do not believe the imperatives replace the indicatives. The indicatives are our basis for the imperatives.

...See how easily this game is played?
Set up straw men which easily gets blown over.
Again I disagree

the Indicative is the truth, The HS is the one who empowers the truth.

ie.

The HS says,

Because of this truth, do this

One who has faith, does what the imperative is.

one who does not have faith, will probably not do anything.

 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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I'm sorry, but I do not believe the soul is immortal either.

We are in agreement there, but what I meant is that there is no sign of the soul perishing (perishable) is like slowly dying, it smells, ages, etc. Unlike the body. And because this Scripture is speaking of outward appearance, my understand is that it's talking about the body.

C.

There is no Scripture to affirm what you say about the soul not being perishable, but many that affirm that the soul that is found at the time of judgement does indeed perish, for the wages of sin is death, and Who is to be feared but He Who has the power to destroy both body and soul? Still, many peddle the idea of an immortal soul despite absolutely no Scriptural support.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Again I disagree

the Indicative is the truth, The HS is the one who empowers the truth.

ie.

The HS says,

Because of this truth, do this

One who has faith, does what the imperative is.

one who does not have faith, will probably not do anything.

The imperatives are equally true. E.g "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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Well if you read in Romans 12, it tells us that we prove the will of God by renewing our mind. To what? Who we are in Christ. And it also says that truth is what sets us free. When I say indicatives empower I am saying exactly what Paul said over and over to people who struggled, this isn't who you are in Christ, we believe better about you, you are washed, justfied, and glorified, and the entire Bible is loaded with truths that tells us who we are and who He is.

And because of this, I believe truth does empower. Because Jesus said that the word of God is like seed, if it's not understood the enemy comes and snatches it, if we have no root it bears no fruit, and if there is a hard heart its on rocky ground...

So truth as it is received, understanding comes, and through understanding we see fruit of it. If we don't see fruit of it, we can go back to the 4 conditions of the heart.

Finally, if you don't believe truth (indicatives) empower what's the point of teaching? Why do we teach people can be saved? Because by knowing they can, they are allowed to receive it. It is the same with indicatives, imo.

Remember when Paul said he was surprised he had to teach people stuff? The way I see it is:

It's because he knew the indicatives, but when behavior didn't line up, he taught the imperatives that flowed out of the reality they were now good trees so could bear good fruit, because bad trees don't bear good fruit. - Jesus

C.

Equally this is incorrect. The indicatives do not empower us. His Holy Spirit empowers us.
Also I do not believe the imperatives replace the indicatives. The indicatives are our basis for the imperatives.

...See how easily this game is played?
Set up straw men which easily gets blown over.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Hey all!

I was just praying and I feel the need to apologize. I ended up doing what sometimes I tell others not to do. I started off good just sharing stuff, but sometimes I get so passionate I forget. I shouldn't be trying to convince other people to believe like me. I am sorry for doing that and trying to beat my Scripture understanding and what I'm convinced about into your heads. I think for me it's better to share what I believe instead of telling others what to believe. And I think I sort of crossed that line a few times in my excitement.

Love you all! I will still comment as I choose (and feel lead), but I will try to focus more on sharing what I believe and leave others room for their own beliefs. We must all be convinced in our own minds. And I trust Holy Spirit to guide us as we need to be guided, sometimes He uses people of course, but I think it's good for me to believe in what He is doing and not in what I'm teaching.

I am still growing myself. But I love being able to share with you all about our glorious God! And yes I believe the good news is so good and even better than we realize right now! Thank you for sharing with me and if you feel in anyway disrespected by me, I apologize for that as well. It was not my intention, but I do quite zealous at times. I know this about myself, I'm learning. :)

C.
 
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ember

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I wonder if ugly is still eating popcorn.......
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I never said this, once again, You PROVE you do not listen to a word I say.
A Christian can walk righteous, He can not BE RIGHTEOUS..
You use ideas like you understand what you are saying.
A christian is washed clean, and unless they sin is being righteous and walking in righteousness.

The stupidity of your language is to say righteousness does not exist within a believer. But if this was not possible no one can enter heaven, end of story. You are so won over to condemning everyone, you cannot accept anyone walks in righteousness. It is like you claim no one is blameless as to the law, yet that is exactly how Paul described himself.

It did not give him communion with Christ, so he killed Gods people, though in His eyes righteously, but it was sin.
And I have to say, because your manipulations are so mind numbing, you are just wrong 99% of the time.

If you cannot feel love as a son to a Father, or a friend to another friend when you think of Christ, where are you?
You want to teach me, as if I am a sinner in need of saving, yet it is you who condemn yourself all the time, have your emotions so wrapped up, and go full on assault against me as if I am your enemy, and evil.

It is like if you saw a loving kind person helping another in need you would say it is hypocracy and evil.
I was literally staggard when the hyper-grace group came to say the good samaritan was only good because he was a believer not because of what he did. This is mind numbing in it stupidity, even a child can see through the stuff.

We are defined by our actions, which are the fruit of our hearts. A pure heart brings out good things, and is the fruit of love, whose source is God himself. But unless this love is christianised it must be evil some think. That is how religious they are, and brain washed into their own morality, while claiming everyone else is brain washed. No wonder nothing makes sense to them.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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As a small point on theology, ideas link together with a base assumption. It is not possible to hold to any idea without having this thread of interconnected ideas.

For instance it seems I hold some calvanistic ideas and armenian. It turns out I am the mirror to EG, so not surprisingly we do not agree on a lot of things.

It also means if I say, all men are sinners and never can be righteous, that has some profound implications.
If I mean their mortal bodies are innately sinful, unacceptable, and only their spirits could ever be pure that is very different from people bodies are neutral and it is what we dwell on and let grow in our souls contaminates us.

Confusion can often come about when these points are not clearly identified and people can say they are part of a wider group but actually disagree with some points while others whole heartedly do not. If these points effect salvation and our walk with Christ they are no minor matter but core to what we are and how we think.

What helps is if people can find and express their takes on these ideas clearly, or else liar seems to be the first thing that appears on the lips. If I have missunderstood you, put me right.
 
K

Karraster

Guest
@lynn(Depleted) Thanks for starting this thread. Tho I've not participated, I have been researching a bit about the WOF movement, most recently JP.

Here is a link to one of his vids, starting @ around 4:50 he says, "We're not looking for the anti-christ. We're not looking for the false beast. We're not looking for the united states of europe...the revivle of the roman empire...we're looking for Jesus." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MES5ZDn4RIk

See how that plays into the Pre Trib Rapture belief? I am aware of some here who also believe pre trib, and some of you I have bonded with, but that has been gone over so much I don't argue about it. It has been taught in churches for as long as I remember, and I believed it myself for a while, and understand how it tends to "put you to sleep". (which is exactly what the devil wants). Lot's of other things have crept into the church too, that you won't find in your Bible. WoF also teaches "Mother Grace" which has a Catholic slant doncha think? I do. They teach that we are already sitting on the throne of God(that was from that Jeff guy willie mentioned), we are little gods, can speak things into existence, and cure any ailment we have whether it be physical or financial, just by speaking it.

Matthew 24:23At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 25See, I have told you in advance.…

By what the Word says, Jesus says, JP is a false prophet in my opinion. He as well as all the others have been rebuked. We've yet to see whether they change their ways, with all that fame and glory they receive from the world it will be difficult but not impossible. All things are possible with Almighty.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Well, Joseph Prince is indeed a cancerous growth within the church, & those who back him with his multiple heresies are as well.

Israel before the captivity claimed their place with God before the captivity. The scribes & pharisees claimed theirs with their traditions of the elders before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Now the liberal church claims theirs with hypergrace, WOF, & universalism.

What do they all have in common? They're ALL doing what's right in their own eyes..... They're ALL rebellious..... The first two were oblivious to their judgement that came. The last one doesn't believe it's coming, either.

Just when you thought you saw it all..... worshipping the church building, their denomination, their worship itself.... now grace is God..... not true grace, but one without penitence, conviction, or godly sorrow.

The churches in Revelation were commanded to repent, YEARS after their conversions.

Joseph Prince say this generation is the Benjamin generation..... highly favored & blessed, 5 times more than previous generations. We are beyond repentance, & saved no matta what.

I thought the Bible said God is NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MES5ZDn4RIk[/URL]

(snip)

.

WOW..blasphemy! Imagine a minister telling Christians to look for Jesus Himself and to keep your eyes looking for Jesus?....what heresy will the man come up with next?....:rolleyes:...

I can't understand why the earth doesn't open up and swallow him....and to make it worse he believes in a pre-trib rapture..imagine the souls going to hell because of that?....SMH

Hebrews 12:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; whofor the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.



 
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K

Karraster

Guest
I fail to see how Gandi's "oh so famous" statement is so beloved by those who purport to be Christians. Yet, many hold him up as their patron saint, even tho he claimed "he could never be able to fully accept Christ being the Son of God, since he believed Krishna was also the son of God." It's in his autobiography..check it out. Very telling who your heroes are ya know?

That's a great example of how deceived we can become, when we blindly mimic the blind and their leaders.

Don't see how the belief in the Non-Biblical pre trib rapture could potentially do harm? Messiah warned us~Matthew 24: 4 ...Take heed that no man deceive you.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

There are some crazy things going on in the world today. Something so nagging about them all..what's the word to describe it? mmm, oh yeah~satanic. Yeah, that's the word. In governments, all kinds of entertainment, cartoons no less, music, politics, and even religion! Who would have thought satan would infiltrate religion? Don't the Bible say it? Do we even read our Bible anymore?

Here is a link The Opening Ceremony of the World's Largest Tunnel Was a Bizarre Occult Ritual - The Vigilant Citizen - Symbols Rule the World
Warning it is graphic, and very disturbing. It's what the elitists are into these days. ..these people who control the planet and owns all the tv networks..(hint) What are they preparing for? It don't look like Jesus to me...(edit because i forgot to say) What are they preparing us for? might be the bigger question.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Well if you read in Romans 12, it tells us that we prove the will of God by renewing our mind. To what? Who we are in Christ. And it also says that truth is what sets us free. When I say indicatives empower I am saying exactly what Paul said over and over to people who struggled, this isn't who you are in Christ, we believe better about you, you are washed, justfied, and glorified, and the entire Bible is loaded with truths that tells us who we are and who He is.

And because of this, I believe truth does empower. Because Jesus said that the word of God is like seed, if it's not understood the enemy comes and snatches it, if we have no root it bears no fruit, and if there is a hard heart its on rocky ground...

So truth as it is received, understanding comes, and through understanding we see fruit of it. If we don't see fruit of it, we can go back to the 4 conditions of the heart.

Finally, if you don't believe truth (indicatives) empower what's the point of teaching? Why do we teach people can be saved? Because by knowing they can, they are allowed to receive it. It is the same with indicatives, imo.

Remember when Paul said he was surprised he had to teach people stuff? The way I see it is:

It's because he knew the indicatives, but when behavior didn't line up, he taught the imperatives that flowed out of the reality they were now good trees so could bear good fruit, because bad trees don't bear good fruit. - Jesus

C.
Again it is the Holy Spirit who empowers by opening our understanding to His Word whether it be in the indicative or imperative. He also empowers us to perform that which He sets in our heart.

for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
(Php 2:13)
 
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