Who are the friends or enemies of the Living God?

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JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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lets see, He laughed at God.
He commited adultry on his wife, a sin the world still has to pay for.
He tried to hide off his wife as his sister because he lacked faith in God to protect him from a king,

Have you ever stopped to think why God shared the dirt on some many of his children? Ever think that might be to give us all hope?


Abraham was not saved because he obeyed God, He believed God and God reckoned him as righteous..

Abraham obeyed, because he did have saving faith.. Not to get saved.
  1. So? No sin.
  2. Having a concubine was not adultery
  3. So? He didn't lie.
Wow, no wonder you think you can measure up to what Law commands . . . you don't see obvious sin as sin!
1. Laughing AT God? Debatable whether or not that is actually a sin, but one could say that it is at the very least not honoring God, but I'll give you that one.

2. Having a concubine may not be adultery, but having sex with her in order to have a child because he chose his act over God's promise was a sin. That act was a lapse in Abraham's faith, and what is not of faith, is sin (see Romans 14:23).

3. He didn't lie? Seriously? Yes, he lied. The following is a really good article examining this question:




Abraham was justified by his faith. His obedience deriving from that faith saved him.
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:5
Yep, Abraham WAS justified by his faith, and that's why, even when he sinned, God saw Abraham as having obeyed his voice. How could that be? Because God understands that when we put our faith in Him, it's not like a switch flips and we all of a sudden are empowered to behave perfectly, 100% of the time, but that it's a process of us learning to hear God's voice, to learn to trust Him, and to learn to walk in His ways. It took Abraham a LIFETIME to learn those things, yet because of his faith (and it wasn't the faith itself that made him righteous, but IN WHOM he placed that faith), God reckoned him AS righteous.

The same is true for those who put their faith in Christ. Even in the midst of our failings, God recognizes that when we put our faith in Christ, it's not like a switch flips and we all of a sudden are empowered to behave perfectly, 100% of the time, but that it's a process of us learning to hear God's voice, to learn to trust Him, and to learn to walk in His ways. It likely will take a LIFETIME to learn those things, yet because of faith (and it's not the faith itself that makes us righteous, but IN WHOM we place that faith), God reckons us AS righteous.

-JGIG
 
Feb 24, 2015
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however, He has stated quoite plainly, we are not going to heaven
For my own interest, where did I say this? If you cannot show this, please can you stop lying.
And who is the we.

Do you think heretics and apostates are saved? So Judas is going to heaven? Sounds like universalism again.
 

JGIG

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Aug 2, 2013
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There is more going on than meets the eye...we only see the top of the iceberg..93% is under water.
TRUTH.

Which is why we are to build one another up in the Truths of the Gospel, for it is in the Gospel that error is corrected and Life is given to the Lost, so no matter the ailment, the Gospel is the Cure!

-JGIG
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Just a minor observation - ones interpretation of Abrahams issues with Haggar and side stepping issues about Sara are now a judgement call on whether you have spiritual understanding.

You guys have got to realise you are wolves out for victims. Can you just accept you view righteousness differently.

My argument with you is calling people with my theology evil. That has always been the whole problem. People are not evil because what they believe. Evil is based upon actions and deeds in thought or physically. Once you step over that line you end up with thought police and murder for intention or attitude. Now before you say this never happens, ever heard of Pol Pot in cambodia and the killing fields. But you sweet innocents think this is all so neutral and playground discussions.
 

JGIG

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Aug 2, 2013
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Actually you are wrong about that about 99% of the time IMO. You have a bad history of being a false accuser. Here, let me remind you and everyone else.

In this sequence you accused me of a false accusation and bearing false witness that some believe that doing GOD's will is impossible. I then provided a post of someone saying that very thing. Then you didn't apologize, but indicated that you actually believe what you accused me of falsely accusing others of saying.

View attachment 152587
Um, no, HRFTD, that's not the case.

EG did not say that doing the will of God is impossible, but that being PERFECT AS God is PERFECT is impossible.

Big difference.

And if you believe that it is possible to be perfect **though what you do or do not do** as God is perfect, then you have swallowed the same lie that the Serpent told Eve in the Garden: "And you shall be like God . . . "

The Serpent pointed her to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to achieve that goal.

The Gospel points us to the Tree of Life, Christ, for our perfection, and in Christ, we are perfect, based on Who He is and on His Work. Read Hebrews 10.

In Matthew 5, Christ was preaching the Law to those under the Law, before the Cross, and raising the bar to an unattainable height. He did so in order to point them to the Cross, so that when His Work was done there they would recognize it and receive HIM.

Think about it.

-JGIG
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Just a minor observation - ones interpretation of Abrahams issues with Haggar and side stepping issues about Sara are now a judgement call on whether you have spiritual understanding.

You guys have got to realise you are wolves out for victims. Can you just accept you view righteousness differently.

My argument with you is calling people with my theology evil. That has always been the whole problem. People are not evil because what they believe. Evil is based upon actions and deeds in thought or physically. Once you step over that line you end up with thought police and murder for intention or attitude. Now before you say this never happens, ever heard of Pol Pot in cambodia and the killing fields. But you sweet innocents think this is all so neutral and playground discussions.
1. I never call people with your theology evil. I am actually great friends with a few people even in here with your theology. and I have many friend who follow your theology at work, and we have discussion, But nothing like we do in her, Because they take the time to know and understand what I believe they just disagree.. Which is fine.

2. What is evil is saying people believe stuff they do not believe, Then when you are confronted about it, And the person sits and tells you, I do not believe what you are claiming I believe, This is what I believe, You get angry, as we all have witnessed the last few days, Call people serious names, Condemn them, Call them slanderers and whatever it is you wished to call them. Then when a nice sister tried to show you what was going on, you attacked her also.


That is evil


I do not call people evil. I call actions evil. In Gods eyes We are all evil, because we all have sinned and fall short. But for the grace of God non of us would have any hope.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Now who's doing the accusation? "Yeah, just like you justify your own sin"

You know nothing about me and can't provide a single example where I've justified my own sin.
Nor you, us, yet you accuse us of witchcraft, gnosticism, and licentiousness CONSTANTLY, because you have a false perception of what we believe about the Gospel.

It's an obvious double standard you have there, HRFTD.

But I'm sure no one notices :p.

-JGIG
 
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The bolded parts above are where you go off the tracks, PJ, and it's so subtle.
Thanks for your efforts. I was outlining two different positions. This was only a quick snapshot.
I could write a criticism on this basis. What I was attempting was to show two different approaches.

This obviously passed you by, but again thanks for the efforts. Sorry if this meant it is not relevant to me.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Just a minor observation - ones interpretation of Abrahams issues with Haggar and side stepping issues about Sara are now a judgement call on whether you have spiritual understanding.

You guys have got to realise you are wolves out for victims. Can you just accept you view righteousness differently.

My argument with you is calling people with my theology evil. That has always been the whole problem. People are not evil because what they believe. Evil is based upon actions and deeds in thought or physically. Once you step over that line you end up with thought police and murder for intention or attitude. Now before you say this never happens, ever heard of Pol Pot in cambodia and the killing fields. But you sweet innocents think this is all so neutral and playground discussions.
PJ, you really have raised passive-aggressive posts to an art form. Quite an accomplishment.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Nor you, us, yet you accuse us of witchcraft, gnosticism, and licentiousness CONSTANTLY, because you have a false perception of what we believe about the Gospel.

It's an obvious double standard you have there, HRFTD.

But I'm sure no one notices :p.

-JGIG

lol, The old do as I do, not as I say routine..


Practice what I preach, whether I practice it or not does not matter, you do it or else.. blah blah blah..

I have met so many people like this in my life, I have lost count..
 
Sep 4, 2012
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for many of this so called list. This is believed by all faith believers, Whther you want to call them hyper grace or whatever.

13 is dependent on whose version you are using, to determine what is considered "righteousness or purity"

if it is a watered down version, Then anyone can do that, If it is Gods view (the law) No one can do that. Unless your teaching sinless perfection. You have to believe this, or lie to yourself


The bolded parts have been proven to be slanderous lies, by people in this room who supposedly follow the movement,

12 has been throughly refuted by so many people

I have never heard anyone say number ten before.. Except one person who states hebrews and peter is written to jews, and he is not hyper-grace,

14 has been throughly refuted time and time again as a slanderous lie

12 has got to be one of the most rediculous things i have ever heard, Especially since the bible points out clearly the HS convicts of sin righteousness and judgment..

15 and 16 has been thoroughly refuted again and again and again, but I guess that does not matter,, Your right, everyone else is wrong, and that is all that matters,


these things have been denied, Explained that they are not true, by people in here who follow those teachings, And by quotes posted from hypergrace teachers themselves (instead of the slander taken off internet sites)

You people want to follow what other say someone believes and teaches, and not try to understand the people themselves. You have no one to blame but yourself when you are accused of slandering other people.



That is why there is so much fighting, When you think you are perfect. and you know everyone else no matter what, YOU SAY THINGS WHICH ARE NOT TRUE
You don't know hyper grace.

#9 has some truth to it
#10 is definitely true.
#11 is definitely true
#12 is definitely what hyper grace teaches. The words are just twisted around to make it seem otherwise.
#15 is definitely true.
#16 is true somewhat.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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The bolded parts above are where you go off the tracks, PJ, and it's so subtle. It's not through our obedience and forgiveness that we are changed, but because of Christ's obedience on our behalf and His forgiveness of our sins, allowing Him to fill us with God's righteousness and new life by which change can occur.

We are changed because of what Christ DID, not because of what we DO.

Then we learn to walk as who we are in Christ - New Creations.

You wrote,

"You are forgiven and accepted into heaven therefore you will conquer selfishness and do Gods will."

We DO the conquering? No, Christ DID the conquering, and it is only IN Him and BECAUSE of Him that we ARE conquerors:

33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”



37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors
through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (from Rom. 8)


Colossians 2 clarifies it further, and aptly describes much of what you write here, PJ:


1 I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. 2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. 5 For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how disciplined you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.

6
So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.


9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10
and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ.
He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18
Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”?

22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23
Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. (Col. 2)


PJ, your style is to bring in key elements of truth, and then disqualify those truths by mixing into them the requirement of working to obtain what God has already provided for in Christ.

Take the concept of being thankful for the forgiveness of God, for instance. You wrote,

"A prostitute, who He forgave, washed Jesus's feet with her hair. What love, what humbleness, what a gift of life.
That one act has gone through history, spoken about, and Jesus uplifted and honoured this jesture. What a King we follow, it brings me to tears, and praise, that this is my King. Amen."

You completely missed it. You think that Jesus honored her gesture, which He does for her benefit before the self-righteous in their midst, but you missed WHY she came and did what she did:

47 "Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”
48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” (from Luke 7)

She had heard that Jesus was there, and went with thankfulness to Him. Her gesture wasn't to GET Jesus' forgiveness, but because she already HAD His forgiveness - ". . . her many sins HAVE BEEN forgiven . . . " She had undoubtedly met Jesus previously, and He had extended His forgiveness to her already, " . . . as her love has shown." Her expression of love toward Him was a response to the forgiveness He had already given to her, not a means by which to get Him to forgive her.

Even then, Jesus lovingly REASSURES her, in the midst of those criticizing both Jesus and the woman, "Your sins ARE forgiven."

Will you even read this post, PeterJens? Will you even try to understand what is written here?

No matter - hopefully it will be helpful for others to see your method of mixing a little bit of Jesus and a lot of self, layered with false humility, into your posts, and the resulting false gospel that is so subtly presented in your writing.

Dear reader, go to the Scriptures to understand that if you have received the Forgiveness, Righteousness, and New Life that is in Christ, ALL of your sins have been forgiven. Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7
rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

Out of that thankfulness and a growing trust for God's goodness toward you will flow a walk honoring to God.

As you are rooted and built up in Christ, His Fruit WILL be produced in you - you won't be able to help it - you will find yourself walking in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law (from Gal. 5).

As issues come up in life, your Father God will lovingly discipline you - and understand that discipline is not because of your past, but training for your future - and in Him, that training produces a harvest of righteousness (see Hebrews 12).


You will always have day to day, minute to minute choices that you must make, and as you learn of the great Grace and Love and Patience that your Father has for you,

Grace and peace,
-JGIG
Thanks for your efforts. I was outlining two different positions. This was only a quick snapshot.
I could write a criticism on this basis. What I was attempting was to show two different approaches.

This obviously passed you by, but again thanks for the efforts. Sorry if this meant it is not relevant to me.
Nothing passed me by, PJ.

You, as you customarily do, misrepresented what you view as contradictory positions. Unfortunately it takes much more time and effort to try to undo a tangled up mess, which is what most of your posts are, theologically.

It would also take effort on your part to respond to our attempts to engage you, which is why we wonder if you ever actually read our posts, instead of pumping out your verbose and misconstrued posts, nearly always devoid of contextual Scripture, that fly past our posts without ever addressing accurately what we do post.

Until you choose to converse with us rather than at us, choosing also to actually read what we write, these fruitless circles will continue.

While the hope is that you may actually take in some of what we write, the primary purpose that many of us engage you at all is for the readers who are trying to sort these issues out.

And I'm content to let God and the reader judge between us :).

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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NO, what we did was express a viewpoint different than hers, which you label attack, slander, accusation. You also judged us for being offended. That's just a false accusation because you don't know.

You mean instead of your posts that label us as engaging in witchcraft, heresy, and gnosticism?

Again, double standard much?

I'm sure no one notices . . .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You don't know hyper grace.

#9 has some truth to it
#10 is definitely true.
#11 is definitely true
#12 is definitely what hyper grace teaches. The words are just twisted around to make it seem otherwise.
#15 is definitely true.
#16 is true somewhat.
well good thing it does not matter what you think, Because non of the people who claim to follow that movement believe that stuff, and they have told you that again and again. And others have acutaully investigated your groups claims aganist hyper grace by going to the people you attack themselves, and find out they are not true but false accusations.

Thats what get you in trouble, you think you know it all. It does not matter what the people who live it believe, it matters in your mind what you think..

You have done that since you have been here, and as I have asked a thousand times, Why are you still here, You have no desire to discuss anything, just push your belief about what other people think, whether it is true or not does not matter, As long as people believes what you say, thats fine..
 
Feb 24, 2015
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for many of this so called list. This is believed by all faith believers, Whther you want to call them hyper grace or whatever.
......
That is why there is so much fighting, When you think you are perfect. and you know everyone else no matter what, YOU SAY THINGS WHICH ARE NOT TRUE
EG you are old enough to know better.
These are simple one liners. They are summaries touching of teaching points raised by hyper-grace teachers.

Now you claimed I am lying, you just proved I was not, and I know hyper-grace ideas. This is not a detailed theological forum with phd research articles for pier review. My post emphasised that on conviction of sin by the holy Spirit and conscience I said many now agree this is part of Gods work. This makes things confusing because there was a whole trend towards only positive thought is right.

Now if you were sensible, you would admit some hold these positions or versions of them.
Now I do not know which of these you hold to, but that is not the point. This is a fair representation of the issues.

But you want to deny and lie about it. You have no standing or integrity. So please stop showing your ignorance, arrogance and bully tactics. Your supporters only support you because they cannot defend the indefensible like you do, because you need to have a distorted disposition to carry on.

Thanks for proving your ignorance of the obvious. I wonder what will stop you tirades? Maybe you are just a tool the Lord wants to bring out to make a spectical of hyper-grace, because you are 100% succeeding.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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You mean instead of your posts that label us as engaging in witchcraft, heresy, and gnosticism?

Again, double standard much?

I'm sure no one notices . . .
I'm 100% sure you can't provide one iota of evidence that I have labeled hyper grace as witchcraft, or it's followers as practitioners of such.

Furthermore, calling a doctrine heresy and gnosticism is not the same thing as calling people heretics and gnostics. I strive to avoid the latter, and assert my right and freedom to label hyper grace doctrine as I see it - neo-gnosticism, i.e. a modern formulation of the gnostic heresy.

If you have a problem with my view and opinion of the doctrine you follow, that is your problem.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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well good thing it does not matter what you think, Because non of the people who claim to follow that movement believe that stuff, and they have told you that again and again. And others have acutaully investigated your groups claims aganist hyper grace by going to the people you attack themselves, and find out they are not true but false accusations.
This is simply not true.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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You don't know hyper grace.

#9 has some truth to it
#10 is definitely true.
#11 is definitely true
#12 is definitely what hyper grace teaches. The words are just twisted around to make it seem otherwise.
#15 is definitely true.
#16 is true somewhat.
In the world of liars and deceivers the one eyed goblin is King.
What surprises me is how a person who can say one thing, then deny it the next moment is a reliable source.

Pearls before swine is becoming more applicable. The warning is they are not interested in the truth, just attacking any opposition. But in their arrogance they forget once the facts are displayed and people look into them, they look totally stupid and betrayed by their lies. How many lies does a person who claims to follow Jesus have to say before he is no longer believed?

It appears in the hyper grace camp, as many as they like.