Total inability - original sin - inherited from adam

[PeterJens]

Total inability

When I was younger a problem happened. How does anyone know me? How do I ever know anyone else?
The problem appeared to be always being alone, cutoff, not understood.

At this age I did not know love properly. God led me through various relationship and adventures into myself.
I then found inside myself there always was love but it was hurt, betrayed, hidden, protected, repressed, locked out.

It then occurred to me, who are we? If we are this love, this locked down and shut out openness, then unless it is set free everything else is empty and meaningless. If sin has it root core in this loneliness, hurt, cynism, then equally new birth and communion with God has its foundation in freeing the heart, healing the hurts, and walking in communion without fear.

The power of the cross is an absolute statement by God of His intention and love to each of us.

What we inherit from Adam is this loneliness, this being cut off, lack of fellowship and communion.
The church is therefore a place of letting the love out and letting Jesus's love in.

This is why when I meet christians and love is not their life blood, I would say they have religion but not reality.
Do you agree, or am I alone in this regard?

Out of this comes some significant implications.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Total inability

When I was younger a problem happened. How does anyone know me? How do I ever know anyone else?
The problem appeared to be always being alone, cutoff, not understood.

At this age I did not know love properly. God led me through various relationship and adventures into myself.
I then found inside myself there always was love but it was hurt, betrayed, hidden, protected, repressed, locked out.

It then occurred to me, who are we? If we are this love, this locked down and shut out openness, then unless it is set free everything else is empty and meaningless. If sin has it root core in this loneliness, hurt, cynism, then equally new birth and communion with God has its foundation in freeing the heart, healing the hurts, and walking in communion without fear.

The power of the cross is an absolute statement by God of His intention and love to each of us.

What we inherit from Adam is this loneliness, this being cut off, lack of fellowship and communion.
The church is therefore a place of letting the love out and letting Jesus's love in.

This is why when I meet christians and love is not their life blood, I would say they have religion but not reality.
Do you agree, or am I alone in this regard?

Out of this comes some significant implications.

what is love.

True love, Not mans idea of what love is..

by the way, I would agree with pretty much everything you said in this post.

We spend our life trying to fill that void left when mankind sinned against God, and we try to fill this void with things (sin) it is not until we are returned to the natural order of things (God is restored to our lives) that he is able to fill that void like originally intended, And we can stop relying on ourself. But trust God, and we can turn our focus of self, and on God and others.

This is spiritual growth, Trusting God to take care of our needs, and taking what God gives in excess and giving it to help God fill the needs of others.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Personally God has helped me realize the difference between godly wisdom and worldly wisdom.

That's good!
What do you think of this statement - God's goal is not that we do away with the law. His goal is that we truly KEEP it.
Agree? Disagree?

 

[Ariel82]

I understand where your mind is in this peter, because my mind went the same way some time ago. I saw that something was not right in what was being said and taught.

There is another verse that is relevant along with the verses from Revelation. I think it is in Ezekiel. It is God saying: I will destroy the righteous along with the wicked.

I think it will help you to look up some different translations with these two verses.
Ezekiel is describing TWO groups of people. Revelation is describing FOUR groups of men.

You are on a good but very hard to accept path right here. Anyone I have ever seen desire to talk about it (and it has been very, very few men I have seen do it) has been eventually greatly maligned.

You have started to see the same thing God showed me. I would prefer He show you the rest because if you think there has been bitter strife already, it is NOTHING compared to what happens when you try to discuss this.

Find the verse in Ezekiel and ask Him to show you why He would ever, ever destroy the righteous along with the wicked.
There is also one more verse I have found that ties in. It is, and we know that if we abide in Him, we do not sin.

This is not a conversation that goes well. Discretion and discernment are necessary to have it and to know when and who not to have it with. There is such a stronghold around it. I have only ever met three men who could even accept it.

No Peter, I don't think you passed her test to speak about the subject.

You would first have to....
1. Travel the same path her mind went when you spokr,those words.
2. Find the verses in revelation and Ezekiel about God destroying the righteous along with the wicked.
3. Figure out why Ezekiel has 2 groups and revelation has 4 groups.
4. Believe it we abide in Him, we do not sin

It would be easier with Bible verse lessons and less cryptic language but then it wouldn't be a test.....

Personally I am not sure if this is a test I want to past with only 5 people in the select group.

 

[Ariel82]

That's good!
What do you think of this statement - God's goal is not that we do away with the law. His goal is that we truly KEEP it.
Agree? Disagree?

I would rather use a different Bible verse in answer, let me find it. It's not one many people focus on.

 

[Ariel82]

I know all are saved, but do all get a crown? I know folks have asked before and gotten some interesting answers...but here is the verse......


*Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. *And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. *Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. *But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. - 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians9:24-27&version=NKJV

The law marks out the race track, while the Holy Spirit is our personal coach who teaches us how to run the race and how to discipline our bodies to do God's will.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

No Peter, I don't think you passed her test to speak about the subject.

You would first have to....
1. Travel the same path her mind went when you spokr,those words.
2. Find the verses in revelation and Ezekiel about God destroying the righteous along with the wicked.
3. Figure out why Ezekiel has 2 groups and revelation has 4 groups.
4. Believe it we abide in Him, we do not sin

It would be easier with Bible verse lessons and less cryptic language but then it wouldn't be a test.....

Personally I am not sure if this is a test I want to past with only 5 people in the select group.

I think...it only seems cryptic because it is very hard for us to keep the awareness that all we see is temporary and all we don't see is eternal.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I know all are saved, but do all get a crown? I know folks have asked before and gotten some interesting answers...but here is the verse......


*Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. *And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. *Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. *But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. - 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians9:24-27&version=NKJV

What goos is it if we led the whole race from start to finish, and at the last minute, someone passes us by and crosses the finish line.

Who remembers second place people? and what Good has all that hard work accomplished?

 

[PeterJens]

No Peter, I don't think you passed her test to speak about the subject.

I missed this point about a test or even the objective.
Not sure as you point out what this is really all about.

The problem with this discussion is it actually not addressing what is the theme total inability.

Now I know you guys do not think this is significant but 100% it is.
If you want to move the church, have an impact on theological thinking throughout history from the time of Christ you need to properly address this issue.

If you want to say "I am righteous, pure and holy" and be able to have meaning to those words, again you need to answer this question or know a teaching and theology that answers it. Other than HRFTD and myself you appear not to understand the significance of the point.

But that just means this is not forum for such questions.

 

[Ariel82]

This is why when I meet christians and love is not their life blood, I would say they have religion but not reality.
Do you agree, or am I alone in this regard?

Out of this comes some significant implications.

or they could be immature Christians just starting to drink milk..,most baby Christians have a lot of spiritual strongholds to tear down before God's love flows pure throw their lives without the bitterness.

It takes a while for some wounds to heal and when in pain many people lash out.

Strongholds like.
1. I am not worthy of God's love
2. They are not worthy of my love much,less God's
3. The world and God owes me.....
4. How can I get more power, wealth, prestige, etc..if I promise God this, will He give me that?
5. I can do this on my own.

Once people realize the lies in those statements they can learn and grow in Christ.

 

[Ariel82]

I think...it only seems cryptic because it is very hard for us to keep the awareness that all we see is temporary and all we don't see is eternal.

No I don't have a problem with that concept..we are ambassador for our Heavenly Father, strangers traveling this land that is not our home.

If you have the Bible,verses you referred to in you post, it would be helpful. Personally I am not good at guessing.

 

[Ariel82]

What goos is it if we led the whole race from start to finish, and at the last minute, someone passes us by and crosses the finish line.

Who remembers second place people? and what Good has all that hard work accomplished?

Personally I think the point is not to win, but to not be disqualified.

 

[Ariel82]

Other than HRFTD and myself you appear not to understand the significance of the point.

But that just means this is not forum for such questions.

You're doing it again. Making assumptions based in limited knowledge.,,fine I will help and research the old threads.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I missed this point about a test or even the objective.
Not sure as you point out what this is really all about.

The problem with this discussion is it actually not addressing what is the theme total inability.

Now I know you guys do not think this is significant but 100% it is.
If you want to move the church, have an impact on theological thinking throughout history from the time of Christ you need to properly address this issue.

If you want to say "I am righteous, pure and holy" and be able to have meaning to those words, again you need to answer this question or know a teaching and theology that answers it. Other than HRFTD and myself you appear not to understand the significance of the point.

But that just means this is not forum for such questions.

We have been trying to give you the meaning of those words.

You have two choices..

You put your self up next to the law. And find you are unrighteous.

You put yourself up next to Christ (or should I say under christ) you are righteous.

so what is the context. Being "in Christ" Or "Under the law" there is no other option.

to me, You and HRFTD do not understand this concept. But that is not the issue, I was just showing you how silly and judgmental your comment about how only you two understand your point..

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I missed this point about a test or even the objective.
Not sure as you point out what this is really all about.

The problem with this discussion is it actually not addressing what is the theme total inability.

Now I know you guys do not think this is significant but 100% it is.
If you want to move the church, have an impact on theological thinking throughout history from the time of Christ you need to properly address this issue.

If you want to say "I am righteous, pure and holy" and be able to have meaning to those words, again you need to answer this question or know a teaching and theology that answers it. Other than HRFTD and myself you appear not to understand the significance of the point.

But that just means this is not forum for such questions.

In truth, I am addressing the issue.
But it is too big to eat in one bite. It just is.
It requires some wrestling with each point.
We are in no way hindered when we are communing with God.
It's when we jump off of His lap and start walking around down here that the hindrances all return that were not there in that moment we were sharing a meal with Him.

 

[Ariel82]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25959-mana-s-inability-submit-god-do-good-total.html

 

[Ariel82]

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...tural-proofs-mana-s-inherited-sin-nature.html

 

[Ariel82]

Happy reading...some of the folks are still around but they probably are busy or dont feel like repeating the conversation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Personally I think the point is not to win, but to not be disqualified.

Interesting, Never thought about it this way..

Imagine leading the whole way, The before you get to the end of the race, get disqualified. (I like it)

(not that we are working for reward anyway, at least we should not be concerned with those things in my view)

I always took that verse to be paul saying his whole christian life was spent gibving the gospel and starting new churches as an ambassador of Christ, He ran hard, because no matter how many churches he started, no matter how many people he helped lead to the lord. A few wrong actions on his part could take that all away, and his ministry and ability to continue doing what he was cast to do would be destroyed (he would be disqualified)

which goes with what you are saying.. It is good to learn new things, Thanks sis

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

We have been trying to give you the meaning of those words.

You have two choices..

You put your self up next to the law. And find you are unrighteous.

You put yourself up next to Christ (or should I say under christ) you are righteous.

so what is the context. Being "in Christ" Or "Under the law" there is no other option.

to me, You and HRFTD do not understand this concept. But that is not the issue, I was just showing you how silly and judgmental your comment about how only you two understand your point..

I disagree with this.
I put myself up beside the law, I take a deep breath and say...okay, I think I can maybe do it. I'll try.
I put myself up beside Jesus and what He has said and I say, it's useless! Who can ever keep from getting angry or having a resentful thought??