Questions about the bible !

[alexxcjRO]

I had believe 10 years that the Bible is true . Now i am not so sure . Here are some of the problems that i found:




The story of Creation - in the Bible it says God created the universe and life in just 6 days in this order first
the Earth, then the Sun,Moon,the stars and finally life but science tells us a different thing
first was the Big Bang, then the stars ,then the earth and moon,then life, all of this took billions
of years.The question is how can both science and bible be correct?


The story of Adam and Eve -Adam and Eve were like small children : innocent , naive and with no knowledge of right and
wrong.God punished them for breaking his only rule by banishing them from a life of bliss,abundance,
immortality and no pain in Eden to a life of struggle, pain and mortality. They were bound to make
mistakes and not listen to their father because they haven’t experienced yet the consequences of
doing that. Also we must not forget that God didn’t explain what death is. If they had known that
for their transgression the punishment would be so severe they probably wouldn't have eaten the
forbidden fruit. So the question is how an all loving, just God in his infinite wisdom and mercy
could punish his beloved children so drastically at their first mistake?Isn't God's justice perfect?



The story of Noah- Men have became more corrupt and violent except Noah and his family who were righteous. God gets angry
and decides to destroy the world through a flood.Tells Noah to build an ark and bring 2 of every land
animal in the ark in 7 days .We know that the circumference of the Earth is about 40,000 km and for
example the distance from the Middle East and Australia is ~ 11,000 km .So the question is how he
managed to covered hundreds of thousands of km and gather all the animals from every corner of the
earth in just few days?
- God spared Noah and his family for being righteous,yet he killed at least one small child in the flood.
Jesus said small children in the eyes of God are innocent,righteous and not corrupted .So wouldn't an
all loving God in his infinite wisdom and mercy would have spared also all the children may they have
been in the thousands,hundreds or just one? Isn't God's justice perfect?
- God created the rainbow after the flood implying that there never was a rainbow before the flood. This
contradicts the scientific definition of what rainbows are because if you have light,refraction of
light and rain you have rainbows.This leads to the only conclusion that there are only three possible
scenarios that create an environment where rainbow would not form:
1.There is no sunlight. But terrestrial life is dependent on sunlight, in this scenario all life
would have died.
2.There was no rain but the Bible tells us of rain before the supposed creation of the rainbow.
3.Light did not refract but if light did not refract, sight would be impossible. It is light
refracting in the lens of the eye that allows sight by focusing the light onto the retina.
The question is how can both science and bible be correct?


The concept of Hell- Hell is a place where men go if they disobey Gods rules and not repent before their death, a place
of eternal torment and torture.How could an all loving God in his infinite wisdom,mercy could
torture billions of people forever for a finite numbers of sins committed in their finite life.
Wouldn't God's perfect justice demand a punishment proportional to the number and gravity of sins?
- Throughout the human history of hundreds of thousands of years man had believed in thousands of
different Gods,from gods of wind, trees and animals, to polytheistic gods of the vikings: Odin,
Loki,Thor or of the romans and greeks: Jupiter,Mars,Venus/Zeus,Ares,Aphrodite or of the egyptians:
Ra,Osiris,Horus or of the hindi:Shiva,Vishnu,Brahma to monotheistic gods like Allah,Ahura Mazda,
Buddha,Zalmoxis. Some of these gods are still worshiped today and they will be in the future.This
leads to a rather unsettling conclusion that all the people that never heard of the bible but
failed to figure it out that the right god is Yahweh or just failed to figure it out that there
is a god at all or be born in a different religion and consequently believed,worshiped and prayed
to their god or gods, are doomed to an eternity of torture in hell.This apply also to both to those
who heard of Yahweh but chose to remain faithful to their religion or belief and also to atheists
and agnostic who can’t believe because of insufficient evidence. Wouldn't an all powerful, all
loving God in his infinite wisdom would have thought of a better kind of revelation of himself then
that of the bible , like for example reveal himself and his wishes clearly, personally to every
human like he did with Noah or Moses or Paul, and by doing which give everyone a equal chance at
salvation and redemption? Why choose to remain hidden,idle while seeing all the billions of people
going on with their lives believing in,worshiping,praying and sacrificing them and others to false
god or gods and in the same time punish them for not obeying his rules when they haven’t even heard
them?

 

[crossnote]

I'll start here...

The story of Creation - in the Bible it says God created the universe and life in just 6 days in this order first
the Earth, then the Sun,Moon,the stars and finally life but science tells us a different thing
first was the Big Bang, then the stars ,then the earth and moon,then life, all of this took billions
of years.The question is how can both science and bible be correct?

That BB simply is not science. It is a theory which constantly changes.

 

[Nikki84]

Where does it say the animals only had seven days to board the ark?

 

[Dino246]

I had believe 10 years that the Bible is true . Now i am not so sure . Here are some of the problems that i found: ... The story of Creation... how can both science and bible be correct?

Hello, and welcome to Christian Chat!
You've bitten off some big questions (that's okay). Allow me to offer some basic responses...

"Science" doesn't tell us anything; that is a fallacy of reification. Scientists, using their observations and assumptions as a basis, may tell us things.

The Big Bang is a hypothesis, not fact. Scientists can only observe the present, not the past. At best they can make assumptions about the past, and, using those assumptions, make hypotheses about the way things were and how they happened. Observational science does not contradict the Bible. Scientists find many consistencies between the biblical record and the observed universe.

The story of Adam and Eve ... Isn't God's justice perfect?

This is a red herring based on a misunderstanding. God did not "punish" Adam and Eve. He declared what the consequences of their sin would be. There is a profound difference. As to them being bound to make mistakes, that is an anachronism: because of their sin, we are born with a sin nature, the proclivity to sin, to disobey God and go our own way. Adam and Eve did not have this nature at first. The "banishing" was actually an expression of God's love: He prevented them from eating of the Tree of Life in their fallen state.

The story of Noah- Men have became more corrupt and violent except Noah and his family who were righteous. God gets angry...

God's justice is perfect, and His ways are above our understanding sometimes. There are a few theories about why God brought about the flood. One is that He wanted an uncorrupted bloodline for His Son, and that the bloodlines of most humans were messed up. Without a proper understanding of God's holiness, we tend to think that massive destruction is "unloving" and such a god is unworthy of worship.
Without an understanding of flood geology, we might draw the conclusions you apparently have regarding getting all the animals together. Nowhere does it say it only took a few days. If God created all the animals, He is also able to draw them together, such that they would be in the right place at the right time, regardless of how long it took.
Regarding rainbows, the Bible does not say that it rained before the flood, nor does it say that there were no rainbows. Go with what the Bible actually says, rather than what it implies, when trying to sort out these things. Assumptions often lead to incorrect conclusions.

I'll leave the questions about Hell to another responder. I will say this though; while consequences to sin may vary, the punishment is one thing: death. Trying to impose upon God a human understanding of punishment and consequences is like asking a small boy what he thinks his punishment should be for doing something forbidden... he's going to take the easy road. When you start with God's holiness, and His love (in His terms, not ours), you start to see that the whole idea of justice makes sense.

The Bible says that God has bound all mankind over to sin (that's in Romans) so that He could display His love and mercy to us in His Son Jesus Christ. By believing Who Jesus is, and what He has done for us, we are excused from that judgment because our sin is paid for in full. God's justice was poured out on Jesus at the cross. Those who don't accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf must take it on themselves.

 

[Nikki84]

Alex, what makes you think the first 3 days were only 24 hour days?

 

[posthuman]

Where does it say the animals only had seven days to board the ark?

and where does it say there was no such thing as a rainbow before God told Noah that it will be a sign for him and the whole earth?

 

[Ben_Liven_Right]

can I suggest a couple of web sites
www.answersingenesis.org
www.creationscience.org

 

[posthuman]

Jesus said small children in the eyes of God are innocent,righteous and not corrupted

where did He say that?

are you sure that's coming from the Bible, or maybe just from 'worldly wisdom' and human tradition?
the Psalms say we are sinful from birth, even from conception.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Maybe time as we know it didn't start until God made the sun and stars.
besides.... God is omnipotent and omnipresent, he exists outside of time.

As said: What happened after the fall was not a punishment, but a result of the sin.
If you put your hand inside a flame and get a burn, it is not the flame punishing you, it is a natural result of your actions.

 

[posthuman]

As said: What happened after the fall was not a punishment, but a result of the sin.
If you put your hand inside a flame and get a burn, it is not the flame punishing you, it is a natural result of your actions.

also,
if He is God and we are His creation -- He can do whatever He likes with us.
there's this whole "the Potter can do as He wishes with the clay" concept in the Bible, in more than one place.

when Alex gets his own universe, Alex can run it the way Alex sees fit -- but for the time being, it so happens that this is God's universe, and there isn't an higher court to be appealing to. so you need to get used to it, not complain about it -- you're not exactly in a position to 'judge God' -- not having anything even close to perfect knowledge or perfect ethos or perfect understanding. Alex is not God; God is God.

it's crazy, how common that is in mankind -- to think their own thoughts are higher than God's! so that they could tell God He is doing a poor job of it!
audacity supreme, is what it is. and a complete miscomprehension of who mankind is and who God is.

 

[Agricola]

I had believe 10 years that the Bible is true . Now i am not so sure . Here are some of the problems that i found:

....but science tells us a different thing.....

Science, what is science? Scientists are often wrong and interpret things incorrectly. Another fact is that the all scientific fields are trying to explain how we all got here and what makes the universe work without the need for God and rejecting supernatural.

There are hundreds of artifacts found out of context, numerous items found in coal and buried in and under rock layers that are supposed to be billions of years old. However science just ignores them as "anomalies" and they end up being destroyed or lost, or at least hidden so no one will ever find them.

Anything which does not fit the so called models are rejected, anyone thinking outside the box or suggesting what science considers bizarre theories can kiss goodbye to any serious positions or roles and will often end up not being employed in serious stuff.

I go by what the Bible says and that many things exist that we can not explain or perceive or understand and never will.

 

[posthuman]

small children in the eyes of God are innocent, righteous and not corrupted.

the Psalms say we are sinful from birth, even from conception.

was just reading for another reason, and noticed that God also says this:

the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth
(Genesis 8:21)​

i suspect alex must be thinking of how Christ said that we must become like little children --

He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said:
“Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me."
(Matthew 18:2-4)
​

. . and that alex is not remembering this scripture correctly -- isn't it so important that we keep reading the Bible, and studying it, and looking at what it actually says and what it actually doesn't say? not just relying on our imperfect minds to recall what we 'think' is written - or our imperfect thinking about what we figure it must mean? especially when we aren't looking at what it actually says!

Jesus is not saying children are righteous, innocent or not corrupted. he points to their "lowly position" - not innocence - and says we must become like them to enter the kingdom.
do we need to be righteous, innocent and uncorrupted to enter the kingdom? yes!
but Christ is not contradicting the scripture - man is sinful from birth, and the intent of his heart is evil from childhood. we only attain innocence & righteousness, and only escape corruption by these things being imputed to us: the innocence and righteousness of Christ are declared to be ours, by faith. by faith we received the Spirit, who transforms us into uncorrupted beings and renews our minds, corrupted by the spirit of the age and the nature of our flesh.

by faith.

so this is how we should become as children, that we have faith as they do: trusting what we are taught by our Father and having every respect for our elder. clinging to our Father and loving Him without condition. and when we also take on the lowliness of children, we will be called great in the kingdom

 

[Tintin]

can I suggest a couple of web sites
www.answersingenesis.org
www.creationscience.org

Yes, and also:

[url]www.icr.org

Creation | Creation Ministries International


[/URL]

 

[Tintin]

Where does it say the animals only had seven days to board the ark?

Here you go:

Then the Lord said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you are righteous before me in this generation. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate, [SUP]3 [/SUP]and seven pairs of the birds of the heavens also, male and female, to keep their offspring alive on the face of all the earth. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]And Noah did all that the Lord had commanded him.

Genesis 7:1-5

 

[Nikki84]

was just reading for another reason, and noticed that God also says this:

the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth
(Genesis 8:21)​

i suspect alex must be thinking of how Christ said that we must become like little children --

He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said:
“Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me."
(Matthew 18:2-4)
​

. . and that alex is not remembering this scripture correctly -- isn't it so important that we keep reading the Bible, and studying it, and looking at what it actually says and what it actually doesn't say? not just relying on our imperfect minds to recall what we 'think' is written - or our imperfect thinking about what we figure it must mean? especially when we aren't looking at what it actually says!

Jesus is not saying children are righteous, innocent or not corrupted. he points to their "lowly position" - not innocence - and says we must become like them to enter the kingdom.
do we need to be righteous, innocent and uncorrupted to enter the kingdom? yes!
but Christ is not contradicting the scripture - man is sinful from birth, and the intent of his heart is evil from childhood. we only attain innocence & righteousness, and only escape corruption by these things being imputed to us: the innocence and righteousness of Christ are declared to be ours, by faith. by faith we received the Spirit, who transforms us into uncorrupted beings and renews our minds, corrupted by the spirit of the age and the nature of our flesh.

by faith.

so this is how we should become as children, that we have faith as they do: trusting what we are taught by our Father and having every respect for our elder. clinging to our Father and loving Him without condition. and when we also take on the lowliness of children, we will be called great in the kingdom

Where do babies go when they die?

 

[Tintin]

Alex, I'll come back to this thread of yours in a couple days. And if I see you're not just posting and running, I'll take the time to answer some of these questions of yours. But I'm only going to put in the effort if you're legitimately searching for answers.

 

[posthuman]

Where do babies go when they die?

what does your pope say,

and what does the word of God say?

let's compare.

forget what the spirit of the age says.

 

[Nikki84]

what does your pope say,

and what does the word of God say?

let's compare.

forget what the spirit of the age says.

LOL, I asked you first. Your assumption of the pope is interesting.

 

[TonyJay]

With respect to the story of creation this is not a dual between science and the Bible.
The scientific theories dealing with the origins of our universe are just that - theories.
(Interestingly enough the physicist/mathematician who has done a huge amount of work on the Big Bang Theory is Prof David Block of the University of Cape Town who happens to be a committed evangelical christian and is known to hold regular seminars at UCT to try and convince sceptics of the validity of the Bible.)
However, the point that I want to make is that the Bible is not primarily a scientific document and so a direct comparison with modern scientific theory is just disingenuous.
The take home message is that God created the universe and everything in it.
Also, if you know your physics, you will be aware of how time is defined and also the conditions in which time, as we understand it, can be foreshortened or lengthened.
Moreover, if we understand God correctly, he exists outside time and is not bound by time and this also raises interesting questions of how to interpret the creation account in Genesis.
In summary, science and the Bible are not in direct competition as regards the creation story in Genesis.
You are comparing an apple with an orange and getting a banana instead!

With the story of the fall it must be said that God's justice is perfect, as is his mercy and grace. All these things are abundantly evident here.
Firstly, as has already been pointed out in a couple of posts in this thread, death is the natural consequence of sin not a punishment for sin.
If you warn your young son not to put his hand into a flame because the result will be an exceedingly painful burn and he disregards the warning ands gets a painful burn as a consequence, does that equate to you punishing your son?
Of course not!

With regards to the rest of the story of the fall:
The entrance of sin into the world changed everything.
The situation, as it pertained before the fall, could not continue.
Sin introduced death into the world, not just for humankind, but for everything that was biological.
All the consequences outlined in Genesis were just that - consequences - not punishment.

God, in fact, shows great mercy and grace in His approach.
He does not kill Adam and his wife - far from it.
Instead He clothes Adam and his wife with skins from animals.
This is the very first example of blood sacrifice to cover sin and is the index event in what we refer to as the scarlet thread of redemption that culminates in the death of Christ Jesus on the cross as a once-for-all blood sacrifice for our sins.
There is a lot more to this account that could be delved into but I will leave it at this for now.

The account of Noah and the flood is difficult to interpret but you will need to investigate who the Nephilim and the Sons of God were. Most interpreters believe that they were demonic beings who took on human form and function. Genesis records them breeding with the daughters of men. The result was an exceeding sinful demonic half-breed.
This may sound far-fetched but do your research here.
The only solution left to God was to destroy these half-man half-demon beings.

The time span of the account of Noah is never directly mentioned. We know how old Noah was when he died but not how long it took to build and prepare the ark. It certainly was not a few days.

Your observations about rainbows and the rain are not hard to explain.
Up until the appearance of the first rainbow there had never been direct sunlight on the earth.
Instead it was continually overcast.
There was plenty enough light for plants and animals to survive - think of a cloudy day where you live.
The climate was very mild because the cloud cover would prevent any extremes of temperature.
After the flood, for the very first time, the full overcast began clearing and direct sunlight was observed for the first time. This made viewing rainbows possible.

Lets look at your concept of hell:
In order to understand hell one needs to understand heaven.
What are the essential differences.
Heaven is where God is and hell is where God is not.

Why do people go to hell?
Hell is for people who are not in fellowship with God.
What distinguishes those who go to heaven?
These are people who are in fellowship with God.

Why are some in fellowship with God and others not?
It is all about the consequences of sin.
Sin separates man from God - this is death; spiritual death for the soul, and physical death for the body.
Now no individual who ever reaches the age of accountability (in other words the ability to distinguish right from wrong) is sinless.
So, as a consequence how does anybody get to heaven?
Well, of those who never reach the age of accountability, like babies, and die physically, they do not die spiritually - there is a place in heaven for them.
As for the rest of us there has only ever been a single way: humble acknowledgement of sin and unconditional repentance along with blood sacrifice.
In this day and age Jesus Christ is our blood sacrifice, a once-for-all blood sacrifice, so what we need to do confess our sins to God and repent unconditionally.
The Bible tells us that this is the ultimate expression of grace - even the faith that is needed to believe that Christ's sacrifice is enough to cover all one's sins is a gift of God.

As an answer to your editorialising about the justice of God at the end of your post I can do no other than direct you to the Book of Romans.
Every question you pose Paul addresses.
I cannot top what Paul wrote!

Tony Jay

 

[Nikki84]

With respect to the story of creation this is not a dual between science and the Bible.
The scientific theories dealing with the origins of our universe are just that - theories.
(Interestingly enough the physicist/mathematician who has done a huge amount of work on the Big Bang Theory is Prof David Block of the University of Cape Town who happens to be a committed evangelical christian and is known to hold regular seminars at UCT to try and convince sceptics of the validity of the Bible.)
However, the point that I want to make is that the Bible is not primarily a scientific document and so a direct comparison with modern scientific theory is just disingenuous.
The take home message is that God created the universe and everything in it.
Also, if you know your physics, you will be aware of how time is defined and also the conditions in which time, as we understand it, can be foreshortened or lengthened.
Moreover, if we understand God correctly, he exists outside time and is not bound by time and this also raises interesting questions of how to interpret the creation account in Genesis.
In summary, science and the Bible are not in direct competition as regards the creation story in Genesis.
You are comparing an apple with an orange and getting a banana instead!

With the story of the fall it must be said that God's justice is perfect, as is his mercy and grace. All these things are abundantly evident here.
Firstly, as has already been pointed out in a couple of posts in this thread, death is the natural consequence of sin not a punishment for sin.
If you warn your young son not to put his hand into a flame because the result will be an exceedingly painful burn and he disregards the warning ands gets a painful burn as a consequence, does that equate to you punishing your son?
Of course not!

With regards to the rest of the story of the fall:
The entrance of sin into the world changed everything.
The situation, as it pertained before the fall, could not continue.
Sin introduced death into the world, not just for humankind, but for everything that was biological.
All the consequences outlined in Genesis were just that - consequences - not punishment.

God, in fact, shows great mercy and grace in His approach.
He does not kill Adam and his wife - far from it.
Instead He clothes Adam and his wife with skins from animals.
This is the very first example of blood sacrifice to cover sin and is the index event in what we refer to as the scarlet thread of redemption that culminates in the death of Christ Jesus on the cross as a once-for-all blood sacrifice for our sins.
There is a lot more to this account that could be delved into but I will leave it at this for now.

The account of Noah and the flood is difficult to interpret but you will need to investigate who the Nephilim and the Sons of God were. Most interpreters believe that they were demonic beings who took on human form and function. Genesis records them breeding with the daughters of men. The result was an exceeding sinful demonic half-breed.
This may sound far-fetched but do your research here.
The only solution left to God was to destroy these half-man half-demon beings.

The time span of the account of Noah is never directly mentioned. We know how old Noah was when he died but not how long it took to build and prepare the ark. It certainly was not a few days.

Your observations about rainbows and the rain are not hard to explain.
Up until the appearance of the first rainbow there had never been direct sunlight on the earth.
Instead it was continually overcast.
There was plenty enough light for plants and animals to survive - think of a cloudy day where you live.
The climate was very mild because the cloud cover would prevent any extremes of temperature.
After the flood, for the very first time, the full overcast began clearing and direct sunlight was observed for the first time. This made viewing rainbows possible.

Lets look at your concept of hell:
In order to understand hell one needs to understand heaven.
What are the essential differences.
Heaven is where God is and hell is where God is not.

Why do people go to hell?
Hell is for people who are not in fellowship with God.
What distinguishes those who go to heaven?
These are people who are in fellowship with God.

Why are some in fellowship with God and others not?
It is all about the consequences of sin.
Sin separates man from God - this is death; spiritual death for the soul, and physical death for the body.
Now no individual who ever reaches the age of accountability (in other words the ability to distinguish right from wrong) is sinless.
So, as a consequence how does anybody get to heaven?
Well, of those who never reach the age of accountability, like babies, and die physically, they do not die spiritually - there is a place in heaven for them.
As for the rest of us there has only ever been a single way: humble acknowledgement of sin and unconditional repentance along with blood sacrifice.
In this day and age Jesus Christ is our blood sacrifice, a once-for-all blood sacrifice, so what we need to do confess our sins to God and repent unconditionally.
The Bible tells us that this is the ultimate expression of grace - even the faith that is needed to believe that Christ's sacrifice is enough to cover all one's sins is a gift of God.

As an answer to your editorialising about the justice of God at the end of your post I can do no other than direct you to the Book of Romans.
Every question you pose Paul addresses.
I cannot top what Paul wrote!

Tony Jay

Hey Tony!!!! This is the best post I have read so far here at ChristianChat! I learned a few things and you confirmed a lot for me. Thank you very much!!!!!!!