You Are A New Creation!
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E
well, I don't think I want to get inbetween you and him
I can't duck that fast
I can't duck that fast
peter made an accusation that people believe sin does not matter, and that righteousness just happens.
I asked him to show who ever said that.. And that's what got this whole things started.. By the way, has he ever answered the question?
well, I don't think I want to get inbetween you and him
I can't duck that fast
I can't duck that fast
Emotionally sometimes it is hard to read anothers posts because it takes real effort.
I once listened to a debate between a christian and muslim group.
I was amazed how both sides thought they had won until I realised they spoke different
conceptual languages. So in their minds they had, and the other did not see it.
It is why some never really engage, it is just a game.
E
You talking about your hyper grace thread?
I think that was thoroughly refuted by all people who you claimed to have spoken for.. saying they believed whatever it was you said.. And even the slander you made against a certain teacher was thoroughy shown to be slander, and false accusations.
Don't you think people get sick of being slandered all the time?
I know what you believe peter. That's not the issue. The issue is you keep saying people believe things they do not believe. and every time someone calls you out on it, you go on this rampage..
Guess what We are sick of it too..
Your beliefs are your beliefs, and people would love to discuss it.. But you can not discuss anything, if your main points are based on false information.
I think that was thoroughly refuted by all people who you claimed to have spoken for.. saying they believed whatever it was you said.. And even the slander you made against a certain teacher was thoroughy shown to be slander, and false accusations.
Don't you think people get sick of being slandered all the time?
I know what you believe peter. That's not the issue. The issue is you keep saying people believe things they do not believe. and every time someone calls you out on it, you go on this rampage..
Guess what We are sick of it too..
Your beliefs are your beliefs, and people would love to discuss it.. But you can not discuss anything, if your main points are based on false information.
L
are you saying I'm not honest? kidding
what I see, is that this thread has gone off the reservation
it started out as something I agreed with but would not touch with a 10 foot Bible now
hyper grace? that's a new one but it seems there is alot of misunderstanding going on as in what is said.
at the risk of being bushwhacked, I have not see where he answered your question
If I am going to be a referee, I will expect a get out of jail card or two or the equivalent thereof
kiddingwhat I see, is that this thread has gone off the reservation
it started out as something I agreed with but would not touch with a 10 foot Bible now
hyper grace? that's a new one but it seems there is alot of misunderstanding going on as in what is said.
at the risk of being bushwhacked, I have not see where he answered your question
If I am going to be a referee, I will expect a get out of jail card or two or the equivalent thereof
Does sin matter?
A debate was had with the hyper-grace group. They said all future sin is forgiven when you come to faith.
So though sin is destructive, you are saved and forgiven even as you sin, so no need for repentance and confession
just agreeing with God. Now as far as salvation goes, sin no longer matters.
They also hold with total inability, which is the belief you can never be righteous, only through the imputed righteousness
of Christ. This is part of the calvanistic 5 points of faith, though many do not hold to all 5.
We again have had long conversations, which generally end with questions like "are you sinless" "are you perfect"
Our position is you walk in purity and righteousness, blamelessly until the point at which you stumble and sin.
You then need to repent, confess and get yourself right with God again. Faith is counted as righteousness which is
your covering.
What often gets confusing is certain believers vary their view. So they may believe in hyper grace but hold you could walk righteously, maybe at some point.
What I find amusing is EG always makes the same points, and claims the same stuff, which I often respond to as above, and it just continues. It does not help him or anyone else, but he likes this merry go round.
I think he feels the idea of walking blamelessly before the Lord with the potential to stumble means it is useless, because unless it is bullet proof, might means you loose your salvation. But my answer is this is walk discipleship is and the relationship. If you truly follow God you will not let go or walk away, because you love Him from the bottom of your heart in reality, not some superficial spark. But I think he fears that is all his faith is, so this is too weak a position for him.
A debate was had with the hyper-grace group. They said all future sin is forgiven when you come to faith.
So though sin is destructive, you are saved and forgiven even as you sin, so no need for repentance and confession
just agreeing with God. Now as far as salvation goes, sin no longer matters.
They also hold with total inability, which is the belief you can never be righteous, only through the imputed righteousness
of Christ. This is part of the calvanistic 5 points of faith, though many do not hold to all 5.
We again have had long conversations, which generally end with questions like "are you sinless" "are you perfect"
Our position is you walk in purity and righteousness, blamelessly until the point at which you stumble and sin.
You then need to repent, confess and get yourself right with God again. Faith is counted as righteousness which is
your covering.
What often gets confusing is certain believers vary their view. So they may believe in hyper grace but hold you could walk righteously, maybe at some point.
What I find amusing is EG always makes the same points, and claims the same stuff, which I often respond to as above, and it just continues. It does not help him or anyone else, but he likes this merry go round.
I think he feels the idea of walking blamelessly before the Lord with the potential to stumble means it is useless, because unless it is bullet proof, might means you loose your salvation. But my answer is this is walk discipleship is and the relationship. If you truly follow God you will not let go or walk away, because you love Him from the bottom of your heart in reality, not some superficial spark. But I think he fears that is all his faith is, so this is too weak a position for him.
L
well, what can I say
the Bible still states that we have become a new creation in Christ and that old things are passed away
I don't see where that can be changed
hyper grace seems like some sort of quasi real thing from what I am reading
like hyper love or hyper forgiveness or whatever
I agree that concepts can be very different as well as language structure but surely scripture says what it says?
the Bible still states that we have become a new creation in Christ and that old things are passed away
I don't see where that can be changed
hyper grace seems like some sort of quasi real thing from what I am reading
like hyper love or hyper forgiveness or whatever
I agree that concepts can be very different as well as language structure but surely scripture says what it says?
Christian Chat Rooms & Forums - Hyper-Grace Heresy the leaving of Christian faith - Blogs
Above are the blog posts about hyper-grace. It saves repetition.
You will notice EG wants to summarise his response. I appreciate that.
Above are the blog posts about hyper-grace. It saves repetition.
You will notice EG wants to summarise his response. I appreciate that.
No, it's not automatic....we have to be taught that we need to do righteousness deeds in order to create and maintain their own righteousness. The Christian relying totally on Christ's completed work knows that we do good deeds from the life inside of us. We don't do it "for" salvation -we do them because we are saved. Big difference.
i think it's not entirely accurate to say this old nature is "gone" -- where do my failures come from?
i do have a sin nature. a dead one.
i think the reason that in the epistles there is so much encouragement to mortify the deeds of the flesh and to walk by the spirit, and put away all the things of the old nature, is because even though that has been crucified, and has died, and you are a new creation ((fully agree with you there, C)) - - - all these things which follow from the reality ((which i also believe are as inevitable as any promise of God is, because He is faithful to complete the work in us)) are not immediately grasped. in some people, yes, because God is not limited, but He has chosen that we should remain humbled by these thorns, so that none of us can say 'i am without sin' or 'i am perfect' -- to remind us all that we are constrained to His mercy, and so no one will be able to boast except to say they have been known by Him, shown mercy by Him, and He has revealed of Himself to us.
so yes, we are made new. we don't 'realize' and take hold of that though not because we're daft ((not discounting that in every case either lol)) but because our old natures aren't gone - they are dead. we still walk around in these tents of flesh, a quickened pile of dust -- we still wait for the redemption of our bodies.
we are still being built up and being renewed and being transformed. aren't we?
i mean, i take hold of the promises and fully believe they will be completed in me: there is no doubt. i wait; He's worked patience in me. but i don't believe in the 'power of positive thinking' as though all i have to do is say "i'm perfected!" 100 times in a mirror while clicking my heels, and *poof!* i will never fall again; it was just my fault for lacking faith; silly me. but that's not what you're saying, right?
there's 15 pages of this thread or so lol maybe i oughta catch up. i just read the OP.
((that's beginning to be a habit, post... you say things that are already well-covered sometimes lol))
You are right, scripture does say what it says. You can though behind scripture create models of people, spirituality that match the scripture but with different meanings to the words.
For instance - repentance. Repentance is clearly defined in the old testament, as recognising sin, confessing its evil, changing your behaviour and doing good.
Now this group say repentance is just agreeing with God.
So Jesus can preach to a crowd repent, but what he meant was not turn from sins, was just agree with God.
You can also say Jesus spoke to Israel and not us, so it is irrelevant. It was just to condemn them and convict them of sin. So all the obedience commands was just to make them feel bad and failures so they would turn to Christ after the resurrection.
So the meaning and reason behind the words matters. It can take a clear gospel and make it into another gospel all the while denying what they are doing in plain sight. Conversations can get very confused as a result, because people mean different things from the same verses. It then takes time to unscramble the meaning, but many just refuse to listen that you understand 100% what they are saying but disagree.
For instance - repentance. Repentance is clearly defined in the old testament, as recognising sin, confessing its evil, changing your behaviour and doing good.
Now this group say repentance is just agreeing with God.
So Jesus can preach to a crowd repent, but what he meant was not turn from sins, was just agree with God.
You can also say Jesus spoke to Israel and not us, so it is irrelevant. It was just to condemn them and convict them of sin. So all the obedience commands was just to make them feel bad and failures so they would turn to Christ after the resurrection.
So the meaning and reason behind the words matters. It can take a clear gospel and make it into another gospel all the while denying what they are doing in plain sight. Conversations can get very confused as a result, because people mean different things from the same verses. It then takes time to unscramble the meaning, but many just refuse to listen that you understand 100% what they are saying but disagree.
amen!
yes, & scripture says God's grace is no ordinary grace --
And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
(1 Timothy 1:14)
(1 Timothy 1:14)
i can testify of the same!
[HR][/HR]
P.S.
welcome to the website Lauren!
hi;
i'm post, and i'll be your mathematician & general all-around weirdo.
E
are you saying I'm not honest? kidding
what I see, is that this thread has gone off the reservation
it started out as something I agreed with but would not touch with a 10 foot Bible now
hyper grace? that's a new one but it seems there is alot of misunderstanding going on as in what is said.
at the risk of being bushwhacked, I have not see where he answered your question
If I am going to be a referee, I will expect a get out of jail card or two or the equivalent thereof
kiddingwhat I see, is that this thread has gone off the reservation
it started out as something I agreed with but would not touch with a 10 foot Bible now
hyper grace? that's a new one but it seems there is alot of misunderstanding going on as in what is said.
at the risk of being bushwhacked, I have not see where he answered your question
If I am going to be a referee, I will expect a get out of jail card or two or the equivalent thereof
It seems to happen a lot. A few things are said Someone asks to have it verified. then an all out heated battle goes forward. Been happening for many months now..
I try to just stick to the questions. But I get easily trapped. That's on me, I will repent of that.. I am in error their..
Oh, And he did not answer any of my questions.. He usually never does.. I sometimes wonder of all the banter is just a smokescreen..
But that would be an assumption, and I try not to do those things..
These "conclusions" are from your own construct in your mind. I have said it from the beginning I first met you on CC. You take something someone says - you "construct" what you think they are saying and then make a whole new meaning out of it. Then this thought seizes your mind until "it becomes real" to you in your own thinking.
It's the very same thing as has been seen in this thread with the "constructs" you formulate in your mind. This is why all these people are challenging you today.
Some of us have told you the same thing over 50x times and yet you continue to say we are saying something else.
Some things you just can't understand like our sins are forgiven in Christ because of His blood but that's ok to agree to disagree too but you go and make it a completely different thing and accuse people that believe in forgiveness of sins as they want to sin all the time which is complete nonsense and is as EG says - slander.
You have called believers in grace every name that is possible from being satanic, to liars, to lovers of sin, demonic. This is the reason I try to limit my interaction with you to as little as possible.
It's the very same thing as has been seen in this thread with the "constructs" you formulate in your mind. This is why all these people are challenging you today.
Some of us have told you the same thing over 50x times and yet you continue to say we are saying something else.
Some things you just can't understand like our sins are forgiven in Christ because of His blood but that's ok to agree to disagree too but you go and make it a completely different thing and accuse people that believe in forgiveness of sins as they want to sin all the time which is complete nonsense and is as EG says - slander.
You have called believers in grace every name that is possible from being satanic, to liars, to lovers of sin, demonic. This is the reason I try to limit my interaction with you to as little as possible.
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E
Yes.
I am no obedience because I have to. But because I want to is another disagreement..
Those forced to do things usually do not do them very well. or just go through the motions with no real power
Those who learn to trust and have faith in the creator learn that Gods way is the best way.. And this leads to more and more obedience.. and less and less faith in self..
I am no obedience because I have to. But because I want to is another disagreement..
Those forced to do things usually do not do them very well. or just go through the motions with no real power
Those who learn to trust and have faith in the creator learn that Gods way is the best way.. And this leads to more and more obedience.. and less and less faith in self..