Minnesota Shooting (Lets Start Over)

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JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
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#41
Why isn't there more transparency with stats about how people are killed or hospitalized every year by the police. In this day and age of computers and technology and instant info and the 24/7 news cycle, why isn't there a central data base available to the public that shows the numbers?
There is data by the government for just about everything. And not this?
It just makes me more cynical about the whole system in general.
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#42
I am one who speaks very critically of much of the Black Community. (Rednecks, too LOL) But, it is not without warrant. For the first 8 years of my life, I was mostly raised by a Black woman. (My nanny, Hattie... almost my second mother, and a Saint.) I spent quite a bit of time at Hattie's house, and going all over St. Petersburg with her, shopping and such.

I saw and heard far more than I ever wanted to in those years. I still give thanks that I did not have to be completely raised in that environment. It really IS a totally different world. Anyone trying to tell you the only difference happens to be the color of our skins is denying obvious truths right in front of them. Hattie, herself hated that she had to live on the Southside.

Why do you think that so many good Black people clamor to move away from those neighborhoods just as quickly as they can afford to?
Willie, I honest to goodness don't understand when you say "Black Community" as if any given neighborhood where Black citizens reside in the city is horrid and "a different world". I'm White and during my early childhood, I lived in the ghetto. It was horrid and a different world for sure. But it wasn't a Black community. It was the ghetto.

The reason so many Black (and White, Hispanic, Asians, etc.) people clamor to move away from those neighborhoods is because as long as you live there, the rest of the world looks down on you and treats you like a filthy disease. I know that for a fact.

The hardest hurdle I have had to overcome in my life has been the shame of believing I was worthless as a youngster. The most amazing gift I have ever received in my life is that God loves me so much that he would die to take away my shame.

I love you Willie and know you are faithful in encouraging and helping others. But I don't think you truly recognize the racism that still exists in our country. Particularly against our Black citizens.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#43
I have thought about the whole police shootings, brutality, etc thing.
For me, the bottom line issue is really the attitude. The demeanor. The persons heart.
To use two examples, and if you agree with my assessments of these situations or not is not the point. I am going to use them to give an example of the way I look at it.
Also to try to tie it into my understanding of how God may look at our actions and what the bible says about it.

I believe the shooting of Philando Castile in Minnesota was a probable case of the officer just being scared for his life, albeit without enough evidence to kill Philando. I do think his shooting of Philando was terrible judgement, bordering on being criminal (for me the intent is what determines that, something we may never truly know). The officer who shot him may just be a man who was caught up in a situation that he did not have the emotional makeup to respond to properly. It could be. Judging by what Philando's GF said, I believe that the cop shot him without reason. I don't know what he was thinking. If he was thinking that this was a black guy, and he may shot me because blacks are more violent then whites, I have a huge problem with that. If he was thinking something else, that was maybe not rational, something that did not fit the situation, I am more apt to show lenience because then it was more a question of his emotional / psychological state and not a biased toward blacks.
The Eric Garner incident, my mind is made up, and has been for a long time. The cop that choked Mr. Garner to death is an arrogant man who is numb and insensitive to other people, especially people who are black. He has the attitude, like to many cops, that brute force is the answer to his policing methods. That intimidation and abuse of power is how to police. That just about anyone who is doing just about anything illegal, even if it is selling illegal cigarettes is scum and a low life.
Now before I get responses like how do I know that, or it is not true, please, just stop.

I lived in Staten Island for 15 years. I lived in New York City for over 40 years. Not to far from where Eric Garner was slaughtered. I went to public schools in Brooklyn. I grew up and went to school and was friends with quite a few people who became cops. I know how they were raised, I know there families. I know them. So if we are going to be real about this, stop the BS and posturing and be genuine. I can have a conversation with anyone who is sincere, whatever their views. if we don't agree, I am cool with that. It is when they just want to be right, twist the facts, put to much of their ego into it, deny what is happening in real life when you lose me.
Christians especially should be transparent. The bible gives us the example. It does not white wash or try to hide sinful human behavior.
There are to many cops in NYC that are prejudiced. Just a few months ago my daughters ex BF told my daughter why is she going out with a N (he used the N word to describe my daughters current BF). This is a man in his early 30's saying this. Not a person who was born in 1940 and grew up influenced by society to think that way. He is living in NYC his whole life, a very liberal city. What does that say about how things may be in cities down south, or in other areas of the country if NYC still has people thinking like this.
I dated a black woman from Virginia who moved to NYC many years ago. We dated for a year and were engaged for a short time. But it didn't work out, not due to any issues of race though. She spoke to me about race relations and the treatment of blacks by hateful cops. Are you people who are defending cops actions saying she made this up? That she is delusional?
Are you all saying that tens of millions (40,000,000 to maybe 100,000,000) of Americans who have major issues with many, to many, LEO abuse of power are wrong, and that about 1.3 million police officers are always right?
I personally am of the mind that blacks, and minorities in general (and even whites, to a lesser degree) are more irked and angry less of the actual savage and senseless physical beatings and uncalled for killings by police then by the attitude of police. Yes, the needless killings are tragic. They rob families of fathers. And sons. And uncles. They also leave a scar on the cops who have perpetuated such a gratuitous act. It destroys lives in many ways. So I am not down playing that. But I think most people are furious at the disdainful and arrogant and haughty attitude cops sometimes display at even a traffic light stop.
And what makes it frustrating for civilians is that they feel they have little or no options to express their displeasure of the treatment by police. And anyone who wants to say it rarely happens, please, don't insult me, or others here who know better.

Cops are human, They have bad days. Even the best cops I am sure have regretted some things they have said to citizens.
I will say that maybe placing a man or woman, any human being into a situation of being a cop is a losing proposition. They see things everyday God did not make us to deal with on a daily basis. It is a incredibly demanding and tough profession. But that does not excuse the indulgence of good cops who say nothing to their superiors about bad cops. This is yet another major issue the American public has with cops. The legal arm of America pounds the public to say something if you see or hear of something illegal. Be it family or friends
But when does a cop step forward and inform a superior officer about what they know to be unnecessary beatings? Or when they know a particular cop has a major attitude issue with the public, or just can not handle the job? So the public looks at police at being extremely hypocritical.
Do police self enforce their own? Not in a official manner, but among themselves? Could it be even worse, is that what some of you are implying, because they do?
And then their is the issue of cops having to make quotas of arrests or tickets. The public knows this. So how do you think this si going to effect their view of police?

I think considering the decades of police abuse heaped upon blacks and other races, the public has been outlandishly patient. I hope no more cops are killed. I hope people realize that the situation has to be changed using other methods. But this does remind me somewhat of the violent civil right days. When a people feel they have been abandoned , when their voices are not heard, when the powers that be ignore them, and they have little to lose, then what do you think the next step is going to be?

So yeah, like God, I look at the motivations of the heart. And intuitively, I think the public does to. Policing is a profession where sometimes civilians are going to be hurt, even killed, by well meaning cops who you would want your daughter to marry. We all got that. That is not the problem the public has with cops. It is with their seemingly, and soentimes real disregard for human life, for peoples rights, and their arrogant attitudes.

As an aside, I find it alarming, and heartless, that those of you who are staunch supporters of the current system and of the cop civilian killers (a very tiny percentage of cops, BTW, but still far to many) have NOT ONCE, not any of you, to my recall have expressed any remorse about the civilian men who have been killed in the last few days. Or their families. Or the GF and her young daughter who will traumatized for life. I keep saying it, that speaks volumes to me.

Also, i was listening to the radio the other day, and one of the speakers said there are about 1000 killings of civilians every year by police. Initially I thought, is that true? That is a lot of deadly force being used.That sounds like a lot. But then I thought, maybe it is true, and maybe, relatively speaking, it is not a lot.
But we have this trend:In recent years, the use of military equipment and tactics for community policing and for public order policing has become more widespread under the 1033 program.[SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP] Lawmakers have begun to discuss the topic.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11]
[/SUP]And aslo when considering this:In 2010, the FBI estimated that law enforcement agencies made 13,120,947 arrests (excluding traffic violations). Of those persons arrested, 74.5% were male and 69.4 percent of all persons arrested were white, 28.0 percent were black, and the remaining 2.6 percent were of other races.[SUP][18]
[/SUP]So 13,120,000 arrests, and about 1,000 shootings by cops of civilians, maybe there actually is restraint on their part more then they get credit for.

Last, it is not irresponsible for anyone who is an average citizen to state their views regarding police brutality. We are not elected leaders who need to consider whom they serve. What is irresponsible is cops needlessly killing people. And then trying to censor the public by telling them their comments are irresponsible. We serve God. To not speak up against injustices, to not speak up for those who do not enjoy the same benefits of us, to not speak up against the abuse of power, that would be us being irresponsible.
I didn't finish your book. Why? I have a hard time thinking you are sincere when you call choking someone... "slaughtering" them.

(I may go back and finish reading the post when my impression of the insincerity of your words dies down a little.)
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
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#44
I'd like to chime in if I may. I am a black woman and I'm saddened by what is going on today. I have said this countless of times amoung my offline friends, there is a problem in the black community. SOME of the young people have no respect for anyone, black white green or blue. They are fighting turf wars in areas where they parents own not building there.

They are shooting and killing each other. The other day a group of high school boys opened fire at a hotel. WHY? What did someone do to you that bad that deserves to be shot. I don't understand and my heart hurts. I own my own home, I forgot to lock my truck to find in the morning that my truck had been ransacked. Everything was in the car seat. mind you, a person has to walk down my driveway and to the back of my house to do that. Lights are on outside, motion lights. porch lights and the lights come on in the truck when the door opens.

I was angry, what gives you the right to go into my personal space and violate my property. Get a job even if it's at Mcdonalds and buy what you want. I worked hard for what I have. I live in a decent quiet area and they come into neighbors and do their bidding.

I am a mother of a 27 year old man. My ONLY son and child.

I was raised in the south although now I no longer live there. I was raised with morals and respect. I worked while in high school and I worked and went to college at the same time. I raised my son to have respect for others and most of all respect for himself. He's never been arrested and never gave me a bit of trouble, other than the typical kid stuff. :D

My heart is heavy and I apologise if I was mean or hurtful in anyway yesterday.

I am tired ya'll tired of all of the killings what happened to those officers was savage. I still believe that the man in Lousiana and minnesota didn't have to die the way that they did. I don't think ALL cops are bad, I think that something should be done about the bad ones.

You cannot see color and be in position of authority being biased against any ethnicity. If you are you cannot do your job well.


I hope you all can understand where I am coming from.

Peace

Forgive my long winded comment. :D
If you think your long winded, you don't want to converse with me !
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
2,316
356
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#45
I am one who speaks very critically of much of the Black Community. (Rednecks, too LOL) But, it is not without warrant. For the first 8 years of my life, I was mostly raised by a Black woman. (My nanny, Hattie... almost my second mother, and a Saint.) I spent quite a bit of time at Hattie's house, and going all over St. Petersburg with her, shopping and such.

I saw and heard far more than I ever wanted to in those years. I still give thanks that I did not have to be completely raised in that environment. It really IS a totally different world. Anyone trying to tell you the only difference happens to be the color of our skins is denying obvious truths right in front of them. Hattie, herself hated that she had to live on the Southside.

Why do you think that so many good Black people clamor to move away from those neighborhoods just as quickly as they can afford to?
I understand what you are saying here. There are nice black neighborhoods also but the bad ones over shadow the good. I think too, it is all in how you were raised. Also you have kids making babies when they can't even take care of themselves. They didn't have much of an example, so they can't be a good example for their kids.

This isn't directed at you, I am speaking for my own personal experience. I just wish that people wouldn't lump us all in the same fishbowl.
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
2,316
356
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#46
If you think your long winded, you don't want to converse with me !

Hahaha, I was going to say more but I wanted it to be read. If it is too long people tend to skim through it to get the gist of what's being said. I know I do because some days my attention span isn't that long. hahahaha:D
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#47
Willie, I honest to goodness don't understand when you say "Black Community" as if any given neighborhood where Black citizens reside in the city is horrid and "a different world". I'm White and during my early childhood, I lived in the ghetto. It was horrid and a different world for sure. But it wasn't a Black community. It was the ghetto.

The reason so many Black (and White, Hispanic, Asians, etc.) people clamor to move away from those neighborhoods is because as long as you live there, the rest of the world looks down on you and treats you like a filthy disease. I know that for a fact.

The hardest hurdle I have had to overcome in my life has been the shame of believing I was worthless as a youngster. The most amazing gift I have ever received in my life is that God loves me so much that he would die to take away my shame.

I love you Willie and know you are faithful in encouraging and helping others. But I don't think you truly recognize the racism that still exists in our country. Particularly against our Black citizens.
The majority of the noisiest Blacks here in St. Petersburg endeavor to make certain that a distinction is fully recognized and maintained between the white Northside, and the Black Southside. In fact, we have one lawyer (Black) whose predominate theme in his TV advertising is the slogan, "Your Southside Lawyer."

This is not a white thing. The Blacks seem to insist on it. Every one of their local leaders promotes this separation in most of their public appearances.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
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#48
I am one who speaks very critically of much of the Black Community. (Rednecks, too LOL) But, it is not without warrant. For the first 8 years of my life, I was mostly raised by a Black woman. (My nanny, Hattie... almost my second mother, and a Saint.) I spent quite a bit of time at Hattie's house, and going all over St. Petersburg with her, shopping and such.

I saw and heard far more than I ever wanted to in those years. I still give thanks that I did not have to be completely raised in that environment. It really IS a totally different world. Anyone trying to tell you the only difference happens to be the color of our skins is denying obvious truths right in front of them. Hattie, herself hated that she had to live on the Southside.

Why do you think that so many good Black people clamor to move away from those neighborhoods just as quickly as they can afford to?
All good Willie. But what does this have to do with that a segment of the police force are abusing their power and killing innocent people. And have been for many decades. And that cell phone cameras are finally uncovering that murky and wicked side of policing?
 
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WarriorForChrist

Guest
#49
Willie, I honest to goodness don't understand when you say "Black Community" as if any given neighborhood where Black citizens reside in the city is horrid and "a different world". I'm White and during my early childhood, I lived in the ghetto. It was horrid and a different world for sure. But it wasn't a Black community. It was the ghetto.

The reason so many Black (and White, Hispanic, Asians, etc.) people clamor to move away from those neighborhoods is because as long as you live there, the rest of the world looks down on you and treats you like a filthy disease. I know that for a fact.

The hardest hurdle I have had to overcome in my life has been the shame of believing I was worthless as a youngster. The most amazing gift I have ever received in my life is that God loves me so much that he would die to take away my shame.

I love you Willie and know you are faithful in encouraging and helping others. But I don't think you truly recognize the racism that still exists in our country. Particularly against our Black citizens.
I could go all day on racism. Does it still happen? Yep it sure does. Is it just blacks that it is directed at, NOPE. Lets talk about the segragation blacks hang on to.

Congressional Black Caucus.
Black only scholorships
Black only Church's
Miss Black USA Pageant
Miss Africa GB Beauty Pageant

I could go on and on. If we want racism to end then this needs to start with these organizations that are black only. I get sick of hearing how whites are racist but we aren't creating all white groups like above. Well minus the KKK lol. Yes their are radical whites out there who hate everyone besides themselves.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
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#51
I didn't finish your book. Why? I have a hard time thinking you are sincere when you call choking someone... "slaughtering" them.

(I may go back and finish reading the post when my impression of the insincerity of your words dies down a little.)
I won't lose sleep...
 
W

WarriorForChrist

Guest
#52
All good Willie. But what does this have to do with that a segment of the police force are abusing their power and killing innocent people. And have been for many decades. And that cell phone cameras are finally uncovering that murky and wicked side of policing?
People still have a right to be innocent until proven guilty, this includes officers. We can't take half a video and say someone is guilty of murder. There is evil out there plain and simple. Sometimes this evil hides itself among police officers, clergy, fire fighters etc... It has been this way for thousands of years and I guarantee it won't end until the coming of our Lord Jesus. Until we know all the facts we should just discuss what is known and quit speculating.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
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#53
I could go all day on racism. Does it still happen? Yep it sure does. Is it just blacks that it is directed at, NOPE. Lets talk about the segragation blacks hang on to.

Congressional Black Caucus.
Black only scholorships
Black only Church's
Miss Black USA Pageant
Miss Africa GB Beauty Pageant

I could go on and on. If we want racism to end then this needs to start with these organizations that are black only. I get sick of hearing how whites are racist but we aren't creating all white groups like above. Well minus the KKK lol. Yes their are radical whites out there who hate everyone besides themselves.
Could that be blacks just taking pride in, and celebrating their sub culture here in America while being part of the diversity of this country? Ya know, like Hispanic's do, Irish do at St. Patty day parades, Italians and Germans do, and so on.
 
W

WarriorForChrist

Guest
#54
You know I live in an area that was pretty peaceful up until about 5 years ago. The oil boom came here and brought all types of people. We have noticed an crease of mexicans and blacks and with this coming we have noticed an increase in crime as well. It is no longer safe to walk the streets at night and a lot of locals are moving out of this area. It is pretty sad that it has turned this way. I'm not saying just the mexicans and blacks are commiting crimes, but when an area gets an increase of population you get the bad and the good.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
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#55
People still have a right to be innocent until proven guilty, this includes officers. We can't take half a video and say someone is guilty of murder. There is evil out there plain and simple. Sometimes this evil hides itself among police officers, clergy, fire fighters etc... It has been this way for thousands of years and I guarantee it won't end until the coming of our Lord Jesus. Until we know all the facts we should just discuss what is known and quit speculating.
Your right. About it has been this way for thousands of years.
Speculating here, I think, is relatively harmless. As long as we try to be fair and intelligent about it. We are not police chief's, or politicians where we have to be extremely cautious of what we say, for obvious reasons.
 
W

WarriorForChrist

Guest
#56
Could that be blacks just taking pride in, and celebrating their sub culture here in America while being part of the diversity of this country? Ya know, like Hispanic's do, Irish do at St. Patty day parades, Italians and Germans do, and so on.
They don't have their own Caucus; they don't have their own pageants. There is a difference in having a day to celebrate your heretage than having a group that don't allow any other color. I guarantee you that blacks celebrate St. Pats days along with the rest of the nation.
 
W

WarriorForChrist

Guest
#57
Your right. About it has been this way for thousands of years.
Speculating here, I think, is relatively harmless. As long as we try to be fair and intelligent about it. We are not police chief's, or politicians where we have to be extremely cautious of what we say, for obvious reasons.
Yes I will agree that speculating itself is harmless but calling someone a murderer before evidence is foolish.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
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#58
They don't have their own Caucus; they don't have their own pageants. There is a difference in having a day to celebrate your heretage than having a group that don't allow any other color. I guarantee you that blacks celebrate St. Pats days along with the rest of the nation.
Yep. And this trend is only worsening.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
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#59
You know I live in an area that was pretty peaceful up until about 5 years ago. The oil boom came here and brought all types of people. We have noticed an crease of mexicans and blacks and with this coming we have noticed an increase in crime as well. It is no longer safe to walk the streets at night and a lot of locals are moving out of this area. It is pretty sad that it has turned this way. I'm not saying just the mexicans and blacks are commiting crimes, but when an area gets an increase of population you get the bad and the good.
Off subject; I was living in NYC when 9-11 happened. Do you recall that from that day until about 6 days later the crime stats in the city dropped about 95%?
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
83
#60
They don't have their own Caucus; they don't have their own pageants. There is a difference in having a day to celebrate your heretage than having a group that don't allow any other color. I guarantee you that blacks celebrate St. Pats days along with the rest of the nation.

They also don't have the same history of slavery and suffering that blacks have in this country.