Minnesota Shooting (Lets Start Over)

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WarriorForChrist

Guest
The girlfriend said in the video that he told the officer that he was reaching for his wallet. Maybe he panicked I don't know. Guess it will come out as time goes on.
How can the GF know what her BF was reaching for? It doesn't matter if he was reaching for wallet or not. He had a gun on his lap, he was reaching down, cop told him not to move, driver keeps on moving, cop shoots driver. We will never know if he was going for the gun or for his wallet. What they need to determine is if the officer gave the order not to move.
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
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How can the GF know what her BF was reaching for? It doesn't matter if he was reaching for wallet or not. He had a gun on his lap, he was reaching down, cop told him not to move, driver keeps on moving, cop shoots driver. We will never know if he was going for the gun or for his wallet. What they need to determine is if the officer gave the order not to move.
She said that he TOLD the officer but I get your point. It appears that he was trying to cooperate by mentioning that he had a firearm etc.
I wonder if the officer had on a body camera and mic like most officers do. If so that will clear up alot of things. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
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WarriorForChrist

Guest
I wonder if he had on a body camera and mic like most officers do. If so that will clear up alot of things. We'll just have to wait and see.
I'm sure he had a body mic. That is what they will be reviewing. Also the camera on the car should have been recording as well. They should be able to see, at least, the two officers and through the back window of car.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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Ah, but there are different kinds of power are there not? It's rather easy to mistake the victim for the aggressor, the weak for the truly powerful, the mover for the moved.
Not in this case
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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I worked as both a police officer and later as a correctional officer. I am offended by your comments about both professions. They are made out of ignorance of the jobs and the reasons why people end up in prison or why they end up getting restrained of even shot by police. And you feel the need to keep repeating yourself over and over, all while showing little interest in learning the facts.

It is not easy to convict anyone. For instance, statistically, an average burglar commits 20 burglaries before he is arrested. He is arrested 5 times before he is convicted. That means the average burglar commits 100 burglaries before he is imprisoned. In my own experience, the man who burglarized our home was caught with out property, and was selling some of it at a pawn shop, yet he was no even charged with burglary. They could not prove he stole anything. He was previously convicted of burglary several times, yet they only convicted him of possession of stolen property, and sentenced him to 4 years in prison. He served 3 years. He got out a year ago. Last week, my neighbors saw someone in my yard after dark with a flashlight who fit the description of the same man who was convicted before. It is not enough to arrest anyone.

People in prison deserve to be in prison. You should be thankful they are locked up. Most are sociopaths and life-long criminals who are predators, always looking for victims. Our criminal justice system has failed us only because they have failed to convict most of the criminals that are charged with crimes.

Time after time, incidents the media reports on that result in police shootings, result in comments by civilians who rush to judgment with little information to make an intelligent conclusion. But it never stops them from making comments. Then, days or months later, when the investigations are completed, and the officers are cleared of wrong-doing, those same people refuse to come forward and retract their false statements and false conclusions.
Your offended by just about anything I say...I don't know what to tell you.
None of what you say here changes the fact that there are quite a few private prisons in this country and money is a huge factor in why the American prison system is so massively large...no matter how you try and play fast and loose with the heart of the issue.
It also doesn't change anything about what I say about to many years of to many needless beatings and killings.
 
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jennymae

Guest
I worked as both a police officer and later as a correctional officer. I am offended by your comments about both professions. They are made out of ignorance of the jobs and the reasons why people end up in prison or why they end up getting restrained of even shot by police. And you feel the need to keep repeating yourself over and over, all while showing little interest in learning the facts.

It is not easy to convict anyone. For instance, statistically, an average burglar commits 20 burglaries before he is arrested. He is arrested 5 times before he is convicted. That means the average burglar commits 100 burglaries before he is imprisoned. In my own experience, the man who burglarized our home was caught with out property, and was selling some of it at a pawn shop, yet he was no even charged with burglary. They could not prove he stole anything. He was previously convicted of burglary several times, yet they only convicted him of possession of stolen property, and sentenced him to 4 years in prison. He served 3 years. He got out a year ago. Last week, my neighbors saw someone in my yard after dark with a flashlight who fit the description of the same man who was convicted before. It is not enough to arrest anyone.

People in prison deserve to be in prison. You should be thankful they are locked up. Most are sociopaths and life-long criminals who are predators, always looking for victims. Our criminal justice system has failed us only because they have failed to convict most of the criminals that are charged with crimes.

Time after time, incidents the media reports on that result in police shootings, result in comments by civilians who rush to judgment with little information to make an intelligent conclusion. But it never stops them from making comments. Then, days or months later, when the investigations are completed, and the officers are cleared of wrong-doing, those same people refuse to come forward and retract their false statements and false conclusions.
Unfortunately you are correct. Most of the prison population belongs right where they're at.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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Another statistic that means nothing. Crime did not drop statistically, neither did it drop statistically in Los Angeles following the Rodney King riots. The reporting of crime dropped. The response of police dropped. They either had more important things to do, or in Los Angeles, they decided they can't be accused of violating people's rights if they don't engage with them to begin with. The L.A. police chief even tried to say crime was down following the riots. It wasn't. It was just that police decided not to do their jobs and arrest people committing crimes, out of fear of being involved in something they could be accused of using excessive force.
Oh, I am glad you know that for a fact. I guess you lived in NYC at the time and had your hand on it's pulse.
I did live there, and was a first responder BTW - I was there for 3 days - and knew enough LEO that were actually there at the time too, and personally told me this.

And as an aside, I don't know you, so I can be wrong, but with your telling me what I said about this or that is irresponsible, and that this is offending you, etc., you sound a lot like a emotional guy who might sometimes act first, and ask later.
 
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Voldemort

Guest
How can you say it appears he was complying. There was no video of him complying or not complying. There is only video of the officer shouting that he did not comply, yet you quickly dismissed that and failed to list that as a "Fact". If you are in a vehicle that is being stopped by police, and you have a gun, the very last thing you do is display the gun. That is highly unusual behavior and it should be considered a threat to the safety of the officers. Any movement of your hands, other than to raise them up, is reason for officers to point and perhaps fire their service weapons at the person who is posing the threat. The officers comments made on the video seem to clearly indicate the officer only fired after Castile failed to comply with commands and moved his hands toward his handgun.
You must have missed the posts I made afterwards regarding the other "facts" being thrown around by the media. The facts, as I was lead to believe, are not officially facts come to find out. I took full responsibility that while they may be facts, there are counter reports saying differently.

As far as the weapon being displayed... assuming Castile told the officer he had a weapon and a permit, the office always inquires about the location of the gun. They may even ask for the weapon. It being in plain sight is safer for all the parties involved. I'm not sure what is highly unusual about it.
 
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Voldemort

Guest
How can the GF know what her BF was reaching for? It doesn't matter if he was reaching for wallet or not. He had a gun on his lap, he was reaching down, cop told him not to move, driver keeps on moving, cop shoots driver. We will never know if he was going for the gun or for his wallet. What they need to determine is if the officer gave the order not to move.
I think the timing of when/if he told him when not to move is just as important really.

If the officer asked for ID, then Castile went to grab his wallet, and was then ordered "not to move" while Castile was going for the wallet... well then, getting shot multiple times seems unjustified.

The biggest question I have is, assuming Castile told the cop he had a weapon and a permit, why would the cop think he was going to use the gun against him? Why give up the advantage of the element of surprise if he had ill will towards the cop to begin with?

I wonder if there is audio. This could clear it all up.
 
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WarriorForChrist

Guest
I think the timing of when/if he told him when not to move is just as important really.

If the officer asked for ID, then Castile went to grab his wallet, and was then ordered "not to move" while Castile was going for the wallet... well then, getting shot multiple times seems unjustified.

The biggest question I have is, assuming Castile told the cop he had a weapon and a permit, why would the cop think he was going to use the gun against him? Why give up the advantage of the element of surprise if he had ill will towards the cop to begin with?

I wonder if there is audio. This could clear it all up.
Well seeing that the gun was in his lap I think I would also tell him not to move after I asked for drivers license. And like you said, hopefully the audio will clear things up
 
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Voldemort

Guest
Well seeing that the gun was in his lap I think I would also tell him not to move after I asked for drivers license. And like you said, hopefully the audio will clear things up
Absolutely. We don't know if he was told to keep the weapon visible, hand the weapon over to the police officer, or if he was raging and taking it out to shoot the officer. However, the first two scenarios are standard procedure.

As for your bold, it's reasonable for the cop to give a command of "don't move" if the gun was on his lap. However, if the cop asked him to put it there AFTER Castile informed him he was armed and had a permit, then there is not justification for the shooting. Would you agree?
 
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WarriorForChrist

Guest
Absolutely. We don't know if he was told to keep the weapon visible, hand the weapon over to the police officer, or if he was raging and taking it out to shoot the officer. However, the first two scenarios are standard procedure.

As for your bold, it's reasonable for the cop to give a command of "don't move" if the gun was on his lap. However, if the cop asked him to put it there AFTER Castile informed him he was armed and had a permit, then there is not justification for the shooting. Would you agree?
I can agree with that.
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
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I have no words for this.

Kansas Cop Fired For Threatening A 5-Year-Old’s Life On Facebook | Global Grind

As the nation is still reeling from a tumultuous week of police brutality and violence, namely the deaths of Alton Sterling, Philando Castile and the five slain police officers in Dallas, tempers have been erupting all over social media. But one police officer from Kansas took his internet trolling against the Black Lives Matter movement to an obscene level.
Officer Rodney Lee Wilson was dismissed from the Overland Park police force Friday after harassing Dallas resident LaNaydra Williams on Facebook, threatening her 5-year-old daughter, India.
“We’ll see how much her life matters soon,” he wrote on a 2014 photo of the little girl. “Better be careful leaving your info open where she can be found Hold her close tonight it’ll be the last time.” Terrified by the comment from Wilson, a stranger living 500 miles away, Williams reported the comment. Wilson was fired the very next morning. In response to the horrifying incident, the Overland Park police department issued the following statement:



Williams spoke with Fox News Kansas City affiliate WDAF, confirming that Overland Park Police Chief Francis Donchez Jr. called her to apologize. However, she’s still shaken about the safety of her family.
“How do I know he won’t come and retaliate? How do I know that? I don’t,” she said. Even more devastating is the fact that she’s not sure how to explain the incident to little India, whom she says “loves police.”



“Maybe I’ll just say he was one bad cop, Not all of them are like that. I don’t think she’ll think they’re all like that either way.”
 
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jennymae

Guest
I have no words for this.

Kansas Cop Fired For Threatening A 5-Year-Old’s Life On Facebook | Global Grind

As the nation is still reeling from a tumultuous week of police brutality and violence, namely the deaths of Alton Sterling, Philando Castile and the five slain police officers in Dallas, tempers have been erupting all over social media. But one police officer from Kansas took his internet trolling against the Black Lives Matter movement to an obscene level.
Officer Rodney Lee Wilson was dismissed from the Overland Park police force Friday after harassing Dallas resident LaNaydra Williams on Facebook, threatening her 5-year-old daughter, India.
“We’ll see how much her life matters soon,” he wrote on a 2014 photo of the little girl. “Better be careful leaving your info open where she can be found Hold her close tonight it’ll be the last time.” Terrified by the comment from Wilson, a stranger living 500 miles away, Williams reported the comment. Wilson was fired the very next morning. In response to the horrifying incident, the Overland Park police department issued the following statement:



Williams spoke with Fox News Kansas City affiliate WDAF, confirming that Overland Park Police Chief Francis Donchez Jr. called her to apologize. However, she’s still shaken about the safety of her family.
“How do I know he won’t come and retaliate? How do I know that? I don’t,” she said. Even more devastating is the fact that she’s not sure how to explain the incident to little India, whom she says “loves police.”



“Maybe I’ll just say he was one bad cop, Not all of them are like that. I don’t think she’ll think they’re all like that either way.”
I can't find words to describe my feelings now...
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,945
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He should be jailed (for a LONG time) for internet terrorism... or whatever else they can pin on him.

Letting him walk away is a BIG mistake.
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
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"Image that got the two officers in trouble is a Snapchat picture of a gun being pointed at an emoji of a black man." link below



MEMPHIS, TN (WMC) -
Memphis Police Department clarified that two officers have been relieved of duty with pay following a social media post Mayor Jim Strickland described as "offensive and completely wrong."


Interim MPD Director Mike Rallings and Memphis Mayor Jim Strickland announced that the city and MPD will thoroughly investigate the offensive social media post.

"At this point, two MPD officers have been relieved of duty. The image is disgusting and will not be tolerated. We will conduct a thorough investigation and the individuals responsible will be held responsible," Rallings said during his press conference.
The image being cited as the image that got the two officers in trouble is a Snapchat picture of a gun being pointed at an emoji of a black man.
"I just spoke to a group of young people at Lemoyne-Owen College for decisions. We are certainly responsible for the decisions we make, and we are held to a higher standard," Rallings said.
An hour after the press conference, MPD clarified that the two officers had been relieved of duty with pay pending an investigation.
"This image is disgusting and will not be tolerated," Rallings said.
"You're in position of authority," Memphian Sharonda Richards said. "You don't have any business posting anything like that."
Everyone WMC Action News 5 showed the picture to said it was inappropriate.
"It makes me very unhappy to do such a cruel thing and think that it's funny. That's sick," Memphian Peggie Sampietro said.
Memphis Police Department has not released the names of the officers who posted the offensive picture.
At Friday's press conference, Rallings and Strickland also spoke about the continued violence happening around the country.


http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/32402310/2-mpd-officers-on-paid-leave-for-posing-disgusting-social-media-post?clienttype=generic&sf30599077=1


These are the types of police officers including the one that I posted above are examples of what I mean when I say some officers should not be in uniform.


 
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JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
83
I have no words for this.

Kansas Cop Fired For Threatening A 5-Year-Old’s Life On Facebook | Global Grind

As the nation is still reeling from a tumultuous week of police brutality and violence, namely the deaths of Alton Sterling, Philando Castile and the five slain police officers in Dallas, tempers have been erupting all over social media. But one police officer from Kansas took his internet trolling against the Black Lives Matter movement to an obscene level.
Officer Rodney Lee Wilson was dismissed from the Overland Park police force Friday after harassing Dallas resident LaNaydra Williams on Facebook, threatening her 5-year-old daughter, India.
“We’ll see how much her life matters soon,” he wrote on a 2014 photo of the little girl. “Better be careful leaving your info open where she can be found Hold her close tonight it’ll be the last time.” Terrified by the comment from Wilson, a stranger living 500 miles away, Williams reported the comment. Wilson was fired the very next morning. In response to the horrifying incident, the Overland Park police department issued the following statement:



Williams spoke with Fox News Kansas City affiliate WDAF, confirming that Overland Park Police Chief Francis Donchez Jr. called her to apologize. However, she’s still shaken about the safety of her family.
“How do I know he won’t come and retaliate? How do I know that? I don’t,” she said. Even more devastating is the fact that she’s not sure how to explain the incident to little India, whom she says “loves police.”



“Maybe I’ll just say he was one bad cop, Not all of them are like that. I don’t think she’ll think they’re all like that either way.”
As you said, no words.
This is a glaring and jarring example of the very small percentage of cops that are just out of control.
But this is all it takes to inflame the already highly emotional state of those who have been, or know someone who has been, mistreated by the police.
This whole thing is just insidious, and beyond sad.
We need to pray in over time. Maybe even fast?
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,174
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If you have an open or concealed carry permit pay close attention to my following advice. I will save your life if you are stopped by a police officer.

Keep your drivers license and permit together. When the officer ask you for your license and registration, give him your permit along with them. Keep your hands in clear view of the officer at all times. He will most likely ask you if you have your weapon with you. Tell him yes. DON'T move your hands from his view. Listen to the officer's instructions, and follow them to the letter. In all cases, regardless of how obnoxious the officer seems, be respectful to the officer.

Remember this. You may believe that the officer is wrong and that your are right. Don't be "dead right".

Now you can get back to you debate.
 
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WarriorForChrist

Guest
Sadly this will only get him a terrorizing charge. I feel for the victims in this because he is still out and could still cause harm to them. If I were the police department I would put a patrol car outside their home and escort them around until they feel some peace.