Bearing fruit
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Being judged is being chastened, its shown in His own vengeance where it speaks of reccompense
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
The Lord shall judge his people is the same as chasten them
1 Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
The Lord shall judge his people is the same as chasten them
1 Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1) to train children
a) to be instructed or taught or learn
b) to cause one to learn
2) to chastise
a) to chastise or castigate with words, to correct
1) of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition
b) of God
1) to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities
c) to chastise with blows, to scourge
1) of a father punishing his son
2) of a judge ordering one to be scourged
Chastening and being rebuked of Him are shown together here
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Both here as well, as many as he loves he does so
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Above (repent) and below for iniquity
Psalm 39:11 When thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity, thou makest his beauty to consume away like a moth
It speaks of a living man and his being punished for his sins
Lam 3:39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
Repeating one (from above) but showing the verse preceeding it
Psalm 39:10 Remove thy stroke away from me: I am consumed by the blow of thine hand.
Which is followed by...
Psalm 39:11 When thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity...
Inclusive of rebukes there is
1) rebuke, correction, reproof, punishment, chastisement
2) argument, reproof
a) argument, impeachment
b) reproof, chiding
c) correction, rebuke
We are told not to despise his chastening, nor faint when you are rebuked of Him. If it is a joyous (rather then) a greivous experience I dont think that would be mentioned. So hebrews writes something encouraging for us...
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
What could be bound up in us?
Prov 22: 15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
Inward stripes
Prov 20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.
Jesus speaks of stripes (blows)
Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes
Heb 12:6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Whereas it speaks of he that hateth his son spares His rod
Prov 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
So just as a man who loves his son, we are to consider the same
Duet 8:5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.
Heb 12:11 No chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; buthe for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
The peaceable fruit of righteousness is at least shown coming by it
My dad gets angry, even though he loved me and punished me according to his love and yet in his own vengeance towards me repaying me for my wrong doing, I would expect nothing less of God as Father of our spirits.
1) to train children
a) to be instructed or taught or learn
b) to cause one to learn
2) to chastise
a) to chastise or castigate with words, to correct
1) of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition
b) of God
1) to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities
c) to chastise with blows, to scourge
1) of a father punishing his son
2) of a judge ordering one to be scourged
Chastening and being rebuked of Him are shown together here
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Both here as well, as many as he loves he does so
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Above (repent) and below for iniquity
Psalm 39:11 When thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity, thou makest his beauty to consume away like a moth
It speaks of a living man and his being punished for his sins
Lam 3:39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
Repeating one (from above) but showing the verse preceeding it
Psalm 39:10 Remove thy stroke away from me: I am consumed by the blow of thine hand.
Which is followed by...
Psalm 39:11 When thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity...
Inclusive of rebukes there is
1) rebuke, correction, reproof, punishment, chastisement
2) argument, reproof
a) argument, impeachment
b) reproof, chiding
c) correction, rebuke
We are told not to despise his chastening, nor faint when you are rebuked of Him. If it is a joyous (rather then) a greivous experience I dont think that would be mentioned. So hebrews writes something encouraging for us...
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
What could be bound up in us?
Prov 22: 15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
Inward stripes
Prov 20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.
Jesus speaks of stripes (blows)
Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes
Heb 12:6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Whereas it speaks of he that hateth his son spares His rod
Prov 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
So just as a man who loves his son, we are to consider the same
Duet 8:5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.
Heb 12:11 No chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; buthe for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
The peaceable fruit of righteousness is at least shown coming by it
My dad gets angry, even though he loved me and punished me according to his love and yet in his own vengeance towards me repaying me for my wrong doing, I would expect nothing less of God as Father of our spirits.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Contrast to InSpiritinTruth states,
He states
Ephesians 5:6 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: - Not Christians
Only two groups Saved - unSaved. Christians do not come under God's wrath and wrath is not discipline.
I dont see the problem there are those who call themselves christians who arent.
Recall the guy who had taken two women hostage from their youth and locked them up in his basement but went to church every week, he called himself a christian.
I dont think someone like that would escape Gods wrath do you?
In fact the guy was merciless locking them up and using them for his ungodly pleasures
I would say he was more like a forgiven servant that became wicked, and unmerciful and corrupt
I would say he was more like a forgiven servant that became wicked, and unmerciful and corrupt
Jesus is perfect theology:
Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.
Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.
So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.
If we want to see the will of the Father in action - look to Jesus while He was on this earth.
If we want to see how the Father disciplines His children - look to see how Jesus chastised His disciples as He is the exact representation of the Father's true nature.
Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.
Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.
So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.
If we want to see the will of the Father in action - look to Jesus while He was on this earth.
If we want to see how the Father disciplines His children - look to see how Jesus chastised His disciples as He is the exact representation of the Father's true nature.
Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Agreed, calling ourselves a Christian doesn't make us anymore a Christian than going to a garage makes us a car.
Jesus kind of chastening yes,
Jesus speaks of stripes (blows)
Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Jesus speaks of stripes (blows)
Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
My views, in context to the scriptures Jesus was also warning believers, for in the next verse; Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
This is a future scene in Heaven on judgement day. These were believers, my views 1) a backslider, 2) one who is living a double life.(lukewarm)
If you continue with the chapter: Matthew 7:24-27 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Nutshell: James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
One of the greatest lies today is the message “once saved always saved”.
Clearly in contrast with the scriptures as the Word states one must: Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
2 Peter 1:5-10 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
This the “fruit” the character not only of God (Galatians 5:22-25 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.) but we as Christian must bear, it’s our personal testimonies. One of the greatest miracles is one who is not only saved but life has changed.
This why God allows temptations and trails, to mold us to bear “fruit”
As you know a Christian (Christ-like character) is known not by the church they attention or by the knowledge but by their character/lifestyle.
Scriptures can be easily quoted but it’s the application most find difficult.
There is so much more of Gods salvation but God need us to surrender our will. Which I confess, in certain areas in my life I struggle with because I make the wrong decision and I hate it. I pray for Gods mercy but in the end it is my decision/will that I make heaven or not.
Luke 12:46-47 is a parable and that is not describing Christ.
Do you have another scripture that shows Christ scourging His disciples? Never take an obscure scripture that contradicts so many other scriptures to try to prove something. This could mean that the Lord is figuratively "lashing out" with words?
Here is another view of Hebrews 12:6
Look in the margin notes of your Bible and you will see that Hebrews 12:6 is quoting Proverbs 3:11-12. It’s a direct quote copied from the Old Testament and pasted into the New. Let’s put the original Proverb and the Hebrews version side by side and see if you can spot any differences:
| My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor detest his correction; For whom the Lord loves he corrects, Just as a father the son in whom he delights. | My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by him For whom the Lord loves he chastens, And scourges every son whom he receives |
[TD="align: center"] Original Quote from Prov 3:11-12 [/TD]
[TD="width: 50%, align: center"] Copied in Hebrews 12:5-6 [/TD]
There is a full article about this very obscure scripture in the link below for anyone interested in this subject. It just doesn't jive with the revealed Jesus we saw while He was on this earth as Jesus is the "exact representation" of the Father while He was here.
Hebrews 12:6 Does God Scourge His Kids?
[url]https://escapetoreality.org/2013/06/11/hebrews-12v6-does-god-scourge/[/URL]
Well..the problem is that Jesus did say exactly who He was talking about in verse 15 and He said it was "false prophets". So, I'll have to side with Him. I agree we can all learn from these scriptures.
One of the biggest lies is the fact that you can lose your salvation as if it is your good deeds that will save or keep you in the first place. This shows a lack of believing in Christ's words.
Preach the grace of Christ and it will teach us how to live godly in this world so that we can be a good witness of the Lord's life in us.
As far as the "Lord, Lord thing" and "I never knew you"....
"I never knew you "...these people were not believers...( Jesus never said " I used to know you once."..He said I NEVER knew you at all...).
Everyone when they see Jesus will call Him Lord.....Jesus said that He "knows" His sheep so those in Matt. 7:19-33 are not true Christians.
John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Jesus speaks of Chastening
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten [SUP]G3811[/SUP]:
be zealous therefore, and repent.
Scourge stripes and blows are interwoven throughout scripture and in an inward sense of them too
When it come to
The word "never" in the above (Mat 7:23) comes into dispute
But here is another verse saying the same thing not using the same word in Luke 13:27
The word "never" in the above (Mat 7:23) comes into dispute
But here is another verse saying the same thing not using the same word in Luke 13:27
Jesus speaks of Chastening
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten [SUP]G3811[/SUP]:
be zealous therefore, and repent.
Scourge stripes and blows are interwoven throughout scripture and in an inward sense of them too
I see that the very first one is "child-train" and then the 2nd is to train with words which is what Jesus does to us.
The proper understanding of being disciplined of the Lord is wonderful and sometimes feels not good at the time but after wards it yields a peaceable fruit.
The 3rd interpretation says to chastise with blows as in "scourging". Would we beat our children as in "scourging" - which means to beat with stripes like Jesus was whipped and like Paul and Silas were whipped on their backs.
This type of understanding of "scourging" is not from God. We wouldn't even for a second think of this type of "scourging" to our children and God is infinitely good compared to us - He doesn't either.
selah
When it come to
The word "never" in the above (Mat 7:23) comes into dispute
But here is another verse saying the same thing not using the same word in Luke 13:27
Luke 13 is a completely different subject then Matthew 7. He is not talking about false prophets here in Luke but to the Pharisees that need to enter in through the door. Once the door is shut , they cry to be let in but will not be allowed because they rejected Him.
Luke 13:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'
In context Jesus is talking about the Jews entering in through the door ( which of course is Jesus Himself. ) but they did not enter.
Luke 13:28 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.
Of course those Pharisees were there and then tried to get Jesus out of there because He was really speaking to them in verse 37.
Inquity is the problem in both departing from him isnt going to get you into the Father or the Kingdom
I dont see verse 37, but as it pertains to the Pharisees it doesnt show them until Luke 13:31 where it says the same day came certain of the Pharisees came to him thereafter. But I dont see who it was that asked him in Luke 13:23 it just says, Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And that followed verse 22 just before it which reads, And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.n Luke 13:22
From here
And the same "depart from me" which work iniquity or which work iniquity are here (for others information)
