The Church in Acts did not meet on the first day of the week...

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jcha

Guest
what is the purpose of the Law?

what have you learned from it?

more failed, self-imposed behavior modification?

or something more?

what, then?
Actually, the Torah has many purposes—blessings! The Scriptures reveal that the Torah is much more than a list of dos and don’ts as many people have been led to believe it to be.

  • The Torah defines what sin (1 John 3:4) and righteousness are (Ps 119:172).
  • The Torah shows us what YHVH expects from man (Deut 10:12–13).
  • The Torah convicts man of sin or lawlessness and brings us to Yeshua by way of the cross (Gal 3:24).
  • The Torah brings temporal and spiritual rewards; life and blessing when followed; curses when disobeyed (Deut 28; Matt 5:19).
  • Obeying the Torah helps deepen a loving and intimate relationship with YHVH-Yeshua and helps us to abide in Yeshua (John 14:15; 1 John 2:3-6).
  • Obeying the Torah helps us to stay spiritually pure (1 John 3:3-6).
  • Obeying the Torah protects us from the influence of the devil (1 John 3:8).
  • The Torah provides a framework for divine justice or judgment (Deut 17:11; John 12:48; Heb 4:12 cp. Rev 1:16; 2:16; 18:15, 21).
  • The Torah forms the basis for the jurisprudence system of civil government (Deut 17:11).
  • The Torah is heaven’s revelation of divine grace. It reveals how sinful man can be reconciled to a righteous Elohim; it reveals the path of redemption or salvation from slavery to sin through the idea of substitutionary sacrifice. This all points to Yeshua the Messiah, the Redeemer or Savior of the world.
  • The Torah reveals the concept of covenant between YHVH and man involving YHVH’s chosen people—the nation of Israel.
  • The Torah will guide and keep us on the path of righteousness and lead us into YHVH’s everlasting kingdom and spiritual divine family. It acts as a protective guardrail to keep us on the road leading to eternal life. It keeps man from falling into the spiritual ditches or off the spiritual cliff along the side of the road of life.
  • The Torah is our light in a dark world; the answer to life’s questions and dilemmas (Ps 119:99, 105; Prov 6:23).
  • Through Yeshua the Living Torah, the Torah helps us to become the person that YHVH wants to live with forever. It prepares us to be the spiritual bride of Yeshua (Rev 19:7–8).
 
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TonyJay

Guest
In the beginning was the Word (NOT PAUL), and the Word (NOT PAUL) was with God, and the Word was God (NOT PAUL).
The same (NOT PAUL) was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him (NOT PAUL); and without him (NOT PAUL)was not any thing made that was made.
In him (NOT PAUL) was life; and the life (NOT PAUL) was the light of men.
And the light (NOT PAUL) shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

...
Am I to suppose here that you do not believe that anything written by Paul has any Scriptural authority.
If that is the case - we are nowhere in agreement.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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it is the law of God, given through Moses. Pharisees had their man-made laws by the hundreds. This is what the Messiah is against. Against His own law? no way.
Have you ever read Acts 15?

Its really straight forward.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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What's the accepted, or official name for guys such as these? Is it Judaizers or some such? I can never remember.

However, it is truly sad to see what they teach.........goodness......

Why is it sad? Because IF what they teach is Biblical Truth, then CHRIST DIED IN VAIN!
 
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TonyJay

Guest
What's the accepted, or official name for guys such as these? Is it Judaizers or some such? I can never remember.

However, it is truly sad to see what they teach.........goodness......

Why is it sad? Because IF what they teach is Biblical Truth, then CHRIST DIED IN VAIN!
Yes indeed, they are attacking Christianity at its root.
If Jesus Christ did not die for anything then Christianity is nothing, and we are all dead in our sins!
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
The law is not opposed to grace. that is just not true. if a Father loves his children, wouldn't he give them rules? A good father would also have grace, to an extent, when the child disobeys, but that does not wipe away the rules.
You couldn't be more wrong. Law and grace are opposed to each other at every point, it is impossible for them to co-exist, either as the ground of acceptance before God or as the rule of life.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Problem is, that you must ignore lot of very clear Bible verses to make your view look possible.

Like Acts 15:28:

"The apostles and elders...to the Gentile believers:

It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."


Until you will have some good responses to such verses, your view is impossible to accept.
The answer is right there in Acts 15

For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
How is that an answer? It still stands still, that Holy Spirit says He does not want to burden Christians with anything more than what was said in the letter.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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You couldn't be more wrong. Law and grace are opposed to each other at every point, it is impossible for them to co-exist, either as the ground of acceptance before God or as the rule of life.
Morning FreeNChrist!

I like the way that the NLT says the following:

"Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down. For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law—I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God."

So true!
 
Jul 1, 2016
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Have you ever read Acts 15?

Its really straight forward.
Acts 15 is one of my favorite chapters. Brother Yacov tells us that the people can learn the law of Moses in synagogue on every Sabbath. (read the whole chapter).
 
Jul 1, 2016
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How is that an answer? It still stands still, that Holy Spirit says He does not want to burden Christians with anything more than what was said in the letter.
You can't be serious. You think Acts 15 wipes out all of God's law except for those 4 things? You don't even believe that.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so [Abraham] begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac [begat] Jacob; and Jacob [begat] the twelve patriarchs. Acts 7:8 (KJV)
The circumcision is another of the ceremonial law used as shadows up till the time of reformation. It was used to announce the gospel of Christ in respect to our bloody husband Christ beforehand and the glory that followed the new creation. The eight day is used to anticipate the new era of Sabbaths.

- And upon the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Acts 20:7 (KJV)

The use of the word Sabbath above which they call week is an improper translation.

It should have been translated "one of the sabbaths" in Acts 20:7. The paraphrases incorrectly assumed it referred to the weekly Sabbath!

It would appear that the eight day is a term used to represent and anticipate the new era of Sabbaths. The day used to represent he arose from all the work he was doing as a “new creation”.Not in respect to the old creation that will die.

The first day the day he said; let there be light and there was a new creation. Since the work of demonstrating the work of the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the word (the six days he did work) It’s an introduction of the new era of Sabbaths... out with the old in with the new.

Sabbaths are ceremonial laws nothing more and nothing less as holy days that he has set aside as parables or patterns.

They point to the finished work of Christ’s faith. The metaphors used in those parables stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Lev 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

It would seem the first will be the last .
 
Jul 1, 2016
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The law emphasizes the futility of trying to live under the law - yes, absolutely.
In this sense the law and grace are not in opposition.

However, you are claiming the blood of Jesus on one hand who completely and utterly fulfilled the righteous demands of the law while proclaiming the necessity of living under the law on the other.

I say again: you cannot live under the law and under grace at the same time.
Choose!
I choose to obey the King, yes sir. Law and grace are not opposites.

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Genesis 26:4-5 (KJV)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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You can't be serious. You think Acts 15 wipes out all of God's law except for those 4 things? You don't even believe that.
Thats exactly what the letter says.

"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements..."

What, according to you, are we missing from the Law, when we live by the New Testament, except of festivals and similar habits? Some moral teaching? Which one?
 
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Jul 1, 2016
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Thats exactly what the letter says.

"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements..."

What, according to you, are we missing from the Law, when we live by the New Testament, except of festivals and similar habits? Some moral teaching? Which one?
so you can murder now? as long as you don't eat anything strangled? do you see how silly that sounds?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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so you can murder now? as long as you don't eat anything strangled? do you see how silly that sounds?
Yes, you sound silly, because you dont know that murdering is forbidden in NT, too.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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Yes, you sound silly, because you dont know that murdering is forbidden in NT, too.
wait, didn't you just say you had no other burden but those 4 listed in Acts 15?
Thou shalt not murder is a commandment. Are you keeping commandments now?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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wait, didn't you just say you had no other burden but those 4 listed in Acts 15?
Thou shalt not murder is a commandment. Are you keeping commandments now?
no other burden from the Law.

But we have 27 books of NT and we have the legal system of our countries. Dont you know that?
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
It's all a moot point because it's all Law and Christians are not under the Law.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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It's all a moot point because it's all Law and Christians are not under the Law.
So true!

"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."
 
Jul 1, 2016
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no other burden from the Law.

But we have 27 books of NT and we have the legal system of our countries. Dont you know that?
so if the governor tells you not to murder, then it is good. But if God tells you not to murder, it is a burden????????????