Repentance: A Boast in the Flesh
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had some knots about this too until recently. But one of my brothers worded it in a way that I could make sense of it with all those scriptures you posted. He said, we are born with a dead spirit and God brings it to life. 
I
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The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit...that we are children of God.
Romans 8:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
This is certainly one interpretation. Now each time you see the word spirit, replace it
with emotions.
Now the term soul appears to be a common term for the essence of a person outside
their body.
Therefore I will not keep silent; I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
Job 7:11
My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:9
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thess 5:23
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Heb 4:12
If the soul is your essence and your spirit is how you feel about things, it makes sense.
What has helped me is to realise words are practical approximations of objects, actions
meanings. They are approximations and are just useful.
Some have talked about people having 5 parts, body, soul, spirit, mind and heart.
Now heart appears to be a word to talk about what is in the core of you, what
you feel and react without any defence in the way. But your heart is not separate
from you, it is part of the whole.
I find heart a useful term when describing your inner self. Jesus uses it in terms of
forgiving from the heart, to love God with all your strength
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Matt 22:37
It gets complicated.
with emotions.
Now the term soul appears to be a common term for the essence of a person outside
their body.
Therefore I will not keep silent; I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
Job 7:11
My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:9
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thess 5:23
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Heb 4:12
If the soul is your essence and your spirit is how you feel about things, it makes sense.
What has helped me is to realise words are practical approximations of objects, actions
meanings. They are approximations and are just useful.
Some have talked about people having 5 parts, body, soul, spirit, mind and heart.
Now heart appears to be a word to talk about what is in the core of you, what
you feel and react without any defence in the way. But your heart is not separate
from you, it is part of the whole.
I find heart a useful term when describing your inner self. Jesus uses it in terms of
forgiving from the heart, to love God with all your strength
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Matt 22:37
It gets complicated.
Oh dear I really cannot stop laughing! Emotional problems?
Serious issues? Yup sin is a serious issue, Guilty as charged!
Certainly you must have a better rebuttal?
Certainly you must have a better rebuttal?
you believe. Everyone can construct a reason why which makes sense for them.
My point was simple a pure heart sees God. So until you have forgiven everyone, cleaned your
heart of things that distort, and can sit in that place of peace and love with Christ, many things
will appear wrong or harsh.
I have changed my position over time as regards hell and what salvation actually is.
I am more a materialist, than a mystical spirit orientated person. I can see how God can recreate
our essense from our brain patterns. Maybe we have a separate identity outside our bodies.
If you see people with strokes or dementia you release most of us is very very physical.
Now I trust God, and I know as a child who is loved, it does not matter. I do not need to know.
But the mystics, with a new heart or spirit, perfect, created in heaven given to the believer, it
becomes part of their theology. But this makes me very sceptical because all the other features
fail and are often just wishful thinking. How many sincere believers who are poor, in serious illness
and die before you accept it is not a simple equation or something we have any command power
over?
The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
James 5:16
The power of God in answered prayer is infinite. But many things we would desire
He does not. You need to seek Him out and walk in His ways to understand.
I think you should realise our emotions are our spirits. Are your spirits good or bad?
He was troubled in his spirit. etc. You know when people have gone too far when simple
words and expressions become super meaningful.
Have you not noticed scripture does not talk about emotions themselves yet it is very much
part of who we are. So another set of words is used instead. Spirit, soul, heart.
Ok..to get back on track ....Here was this guy named Spurgeon's thoughts on repentance - " no fasting, mourning, or weeping needed" in his opinion but everyone is free to think however they want. I will not call them a false teacher because they have a different view then Spurgeon does on repentance.
Peter, if my spirit was simply my emotions, then my emotions are the only part of me that lives forever.
AND, I had emotions BEFORE I received Gods' Spirit to quicken my spirit to life.
I had experienced every emotion known to man BEFORE I met God.
Peter, for as much as you accuse others of new age stuff, this is sounding a lot like it.
AND, I had emotions BEFORE I received Gods' Spirit to quicken my spirit to life.
I had experienced every emotion known to man BEFORE I met God.
Peter, for as much as you accuse others of new age stuff, this is sounding a lot like it.
Ok..to get back on track ....Here was this guy named Spurgeon's thoughts on repentance - " no fasting, mourning, or weeping needed" in his opinion but everyone is free to think however they want. I will not call them a false teacher because they have a different view then Spurgeon does on repentance.
Ah, but that is terrible G777 because I find that something in me WANTS to make great sacrifice for my sins!
The sacrifice of thankfulness seems not enough!
I want to sacrifice for my sins!!
I have heard of this man. I will check into some of his writings because he is completely right that despair of what I am is sin.
He died BECAUSE of what I am, to set me free from it and the consequences of it. So should what I am cause me such despair when He wants me to move on to the newness of life He shed His blood for me to have??
He died BECAUSE of what I am, to set me free from it and the consequences of it. So should what I am cause me such despair when He wants me to move on to the newness of life He shed His blood for me to have??
I understand ...it's the way of the flesh although there is sometimes a godly sorrow that produces repentance that effects a change in what we were thinking and doing.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
There is only one sacrifice that was needed and we believe in Jesus our Lord's sacrifice only. It's a new day where the sacrifices of the old way before the cross is not like the New. God gives us a hew heart when we receive Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
There is only one sacrifice that was needed and we believe in Jesus our Lord's sacrifice only. It's a new day where the sacrifices of the old way before the cross is not like the New. God gives us a hew heart when we receive Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.
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I understand ...it's the way of the flesh although there is sometimes a godly sorrow that produces repentance that effects a change in what we were thinking and doing.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
There is only one sacrifice that was needed and we believe in Jesus our Lord's sacrifice only. It's a new day where the sacrifices of the old way before the cross is not like the New. God gives us a hew heart when we receive Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
There is only one sacrifice that was needed and we believe in Jesus our Lord's sacrifice only. It's a new day where the sacrifices of the old way before the cross is not like the New. God gives us a hew heart when we receive Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.
I say, good riddance!!
What is a heresy?
"heresy is understood today to mean the denial of revealed truth as taught by the Church.[SUP][1][/SUP] Schleiermacher, writing in 1821/2 defined it as "that which preserved the appearance of Christianity, and yet contradicted its essence".
"When heresy is used today with reference to Christianity, it denotes the formal denial or doubt of a core doctrine of the Christian faith[SUP][1][/SUP] as defined by one or more of the Christian churches."
So basically, a "new" revelation which seems to be Christian, but in fact, denies the essence of all Christianity is. The more I have been reading about hypergrace on CC, the more and more I have concluded that it is a heresy. And it is especially damnable, because it masquerades as a Christian truth.
It denies the true Biblical and historical definitions of grace and repentance. And probably other basic doctrines that no one has gotten into. So today, I decided it was time to see what the consensus was in the church, and if "hypergrace" is a heresy or if I am totally off base. What I found confirmed totally that this movement which has been pushed by first one individual, then others, is certainly and absolutely a heresy. And a heresy is something that leads people away from God, I will speak out against it every day, in every post.
Because lie after lie, poor hermeneutics and exegesis have been constantly committed by the people on CC who are pushing this doctrinal lie. Because I got sucked into it, because I thought it was Armininans versus those believing in eternal security, when in fact, it is anyone believing the Bible versus the hypergrace redefinitions which have lead people astray. Including me. Lucky someone brought up repentance, and I realized the lie for what it was.
So if you don't believe me, here are a few links from various websites.
"The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism."
Hyper-grace teaching is a good example of mixing truth with error. An emphasis on the beauty and power of God’s grace is good, but some teachers are neglecting what Paul called the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27). For example, it is true that Christians have been forgiven by God. But that doesn’t mean we never have to confess our sin. James 5:16 says, “Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.” If we are to confess our sins to each other, why would we not need to confess them to God, since every sin is ultimately a sin against God (Psalm 51:4)?"
What is hyper-grace?
"In just over one hour, Dr Chia delivered his presentation very clearly and precisely. We were given a quick introduction, followed by a broad overview of what Hyper Grace Teachers understand about Scripture, God’s Moral Law, Sin & Repentance and the Cross of Christ, and how their interpretations are erroneous. Dr Chia quoted from Hyper Grace proponents like Clark Whitten, Paul Ellis, Steve McVey, and of course, Joseph Prince (Destined to Reign & Unmerited Favour).
For the benefit of those who are still uncertain about the error of Hyper Grace, here are summary statements of the distortions of Hyper Grace Teachers, reproduced from Dr Chia’s notes:
- They have dismissed the whole of the OT. Narratives in the OT are merely used as examples or illustrations.
- They have dismissed the relevance of the Ten Commandments and God’s moral laws for Christians.
- Their theology (i.e. doctrine of God) is erroneous because they have emphasised only certain aspects of God’s character and only some of His attributes (like love) while neglecting others.
- Their Christology is defective. For them salvation is centred only on the death of Christ. In the NT, the whole incarnate life of the Son is salvific.
- Their understanding of the ministry and teachings of Jesus is erroneous because they consider the teachings of Jesus before Calvary as irrelevant for Christians (this includes the Sermon on the Mount, the parables and the Lord’s Prayer).
- Their pneumatology is erroneous because they teach that the Holy Spirit does not convict believers of sin. This is instead attributed to the work of the devil.
- Their understanding of the writings of Paul is erroneous. Paul always balances the indicative and the imperative (you are such and such, therefore, you should do such and such). But the new antinomians only emphasise the indicative and entirely omit the imperative
- Their eschatology is erroneous because they present an over-realised eschatology when they insist that Christians are already perfect.
- Needless to say, their entire theology of the Christian life and discipleship is erroneous.
- The Hyper Grace Teachers are also promoters of the health and wealth Gospel. They incorporate this quite easily in their theology of grace.
"The past several decades, we have seen a dramatic decline in doctrinal and biblical preaching. We have gone from theology to therapy in the pulpits. In the past decade, we went from therapy to motivational speaking instead of preaching.
In addition to this, whole churches and movements have oriented themselves to a distorted understanding of the gospel by espousing a “hypergrace” approach that trickles down to not only what they preach but who they allow to minister and teach. (I was told there is even a new television station devoted to this view of “grace.”)
Furthermore, many churches and preachers refuse to take a stand against sin and rarely if ever mention the need for repentance or topics like hell and judgment. Many of these same churches allow people to minister in music, as small group leaders and even as ministers with no personal accountability while looking the other way when they are living sexually immoral lives and regularly engaged in drunkenness!
The following are signs of a hypergrace church:
1. The preachers never speak against sin.
If you are in a church like this, you will notice that the word sin is usually only mentioned in the context of forgiveness of sins in Christ but hardly ever in the context of taking a stand against sin, except of course when they condemn the sin of “legalists” and “Pharisees” who are the ministers they denigrate for preaching against sin.
2. The lead pastor never takes a cultural stand for righteousness.
When issues like abortion come up, these pastors will shy away from mentioning it because they are afraid of offending new people. I can understand this to a point. But I counter that we as ministers of Christ are obligated to at least mention our positions publicly so that we use it as a teaching moment for the sheep following us. Not saying anything about an issue like abortion is another way of condoning it!
3. The Old Testament is almost totally ignored.
In these churches, the Old Testament is treated as only types and shadows for sermon illustrations but has no real value regarding our standard of living today. As I show in this article, my position is that the New Testament and Old Testament are organically connected, with the New building upon the Old, not eradicating it altogether!
4. People who live immoral lives are allowed to teach and lead ministries.
One pastor was telling me that sexual immorality and drunkenness is rampant in many evangelical churches—even amongst small group leaders and other leaders in local churches! This is because there is very little accountability.
5. The lead pastor speaks often against the institutional church.
Many hypergrace pastors constantly denounce churches that are conservative in their values because they believe those churches represent the "old school" that is no longer relevant to today’s culture.
6. The lead pastor preaches against tithing.
Although I believe tithing carried over into the New Testament, I believe it is more of a biblical principle that preceded the Law of Moses (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all tithed before Moses gave the Law), was taught by Jesus (Matt. 23) and was mentioned in other passages, like Hebrews 7.
These pastors denounce tithing as a law that was done away with in Christ. (For more on this, read my position paper entitled “Is Tithing in the New Testament?”)
7. The lead pastor only preaches positive motivational messages.
Those attending hypergrace churches only hear positive messages on health, wealth, prosperity, God’s love, God’s forgiveness and how to succeed in life. Although I also agree with and teach on these topics, we have to be careful to include in our preaching the whole counsel of God so that we feed the flock a balanced diet instead of just the sweetness of feel-good messages. We must do this so we are free from the blood of all men (Acts 20:26-27).
8. Key members of the church are regularly living sinful lives with impunity.
Those attending a hypergrace church will most likely find that, because of the strong emphasis on grace—with no teaching against sin or on repentance, judgment or hell—there is an atmosphere of loose living, with many involved in sexual immorality and drunkenness as well as other physical vices.
The reason for this is “the law is our schoolmaster that leads us to Christ” (Gal. 3:24) because through the (moral) law comes the knowledge of sin (Rom. 3:20). If the moral law of the Ten Commandments is not preached or alluded to, then in ignorance the people will live foolish lives and will be like the blind leading to blind because “where there is no prophetic vision the people cast off restraint, but blessed is he who keeps the law” (Prov. 28:18).
8 Signs of 'Hypergrace' Churches — Charisma Magazine
There are so many more articles, look it up yourself. This is the worst heresy in the last 30 years. So yes, I am going to stand against this. Because it is deceiving even the very elect!
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." Matt 24:24
There many people in the BDF I have disagreed with on various issues in the past. We have posted scriptures and debated them. I now find myself in the situation of agreeing with people that I do not agree with on certain issues. But we all agree on this - the Biblical definitions of the Bible have been changed, while appearing to be "Christian-like" when they are anything but. There are certain individuals in this forum, who yesterday told absolute lies about 1 John 1:9. They said it was written to Gnostics! In fact, no where in 1 John is the text addressing anyone but believers. They offered up no Scriptural proof, because hypergrace hates 1 John 1:9, because confession and repentance for sin are no longer part of their doctrine. I can post all of 1 John 1, or you can just read the whole chapter and book yourself. NOTHING about Gnostics! In fact, the only Gnostics I am seeing are those professing this sinless, Christless, repentanceless, confession- less hypergrace false gospel.
And if that bothers you, I would suggest that you read the entire Bible from cover to cover again, or for the first time, to look for the patterns of sin, the patterns of repentance and confession of sins, and the amazing grace of God which is in the entire Bible, along with Jesus Christ our Saviour (who saves us from our sins) - from Genesis to Revelation.
As for holiness, and growing in it, it cannot be done without repentance from sin and turning from God. And then confession of sin to God and others. Anything else is again a lie!
