Reproving the world of sin

[InSpiritInTruth]

The Word and Spirit of God bear witness to our conscience and also guides us into what is the acceptable will of God in our lives. To ignore all the warnings to your conscience will lead one to become callous toward the Truth and a hardening of the heart toward the words of God.

Here are a few verses on conscience....

John 8:9
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.


Acts 23:1
And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.


Acts 24:16
And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.


Romans 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.


Romans 9:1
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,


Romans 13:5
Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.


1 Corinthians 8:7
Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.


1 Corinthians 8:10
For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;


1 Corinthians 8:12
But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.


1 Corinthians 10:28
But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:


2 Corinthians 1:12
For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.


2 Corinthians 4:2
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.


2 Corinthians 5:11
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


1 Timothy 1:5
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:


1 Timothy 1:19
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:


1 Timothy 3:9
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.


1 Timothy 4:2
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


2 Timothy 1:3
I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day;


Titus 1:15
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.


Hebrews 9:9
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;


Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


Hebrews 10:2
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 13:18
Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.


1 Peter 2:19
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.


1 Peter 3:16
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.


1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Its an irrelevent analogy anyway. That's not what the OP is talking about.

That's right, I am not reproving non believers by the words of God, but those who claim to be "believers."

 

[FreeNChrist]

That's right, I am not reproving non believers by the words of God, but those who claim to be "believers."

...We know

 

[Grace777x70]

You show no respect to God and to upholding His Word of Truth by trying to twist and pervert the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Reported..just more malice and slander...we are trying to have this type of behavior stopped.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes, and thank you for answering honestly. And no I was not using John 16 only to teach that the Lord also reproves believers, but that is the verses the Hyper grace followers use as a stand alone "proof" of sorts to suggest that the Holy Spirit in only sent to reprove unbelievers, which is false.

Just as you point out that "the verses the Hyper grace followers use as a stand alone "proof" of sorts to suggest that the Holy Spirit in only sent to reprove unbelievers", your use of John 16:8 to support your assertion that believers are reproved is not proper.

In John 16, the Comforter's dealing with believers is shown in 13-14 he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

You have done the same thing you accuse "Hyper grace followers" of doing.

You cannot have it both ways.

And fyi, I do not consider myself to be "Hyper grace". Nor do I consider myself to be "legalistic".

I believe the grace of God to be such a wonderful place to live and I also believe that in order to have the fullness of fellowship spoken of in various passages of Scripture is due to keeping the commandments of Christ. John 14:23 tells me that if I love the Lord Jesus Christ, I will keep His words and He and Father will come and make their abode with me. That is what I want. I want Father and Son to abide within me. I want fellowship with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ as spoken of in 1 John 1:3. And 1 John 1:7 tells us that those who have fellowship with God will also have fellowship with each other. I want to fellowship with those who enjoy a robust fellowship with Father and Son.

 

[followjesus]

amen and amen

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Reported..just more malice and slander...we are trying to have this type of behavior stopped.

Slander is making a false statement about someone, what I said of you is true, therefore it is not slander.

 

[followjesus]

The Word and Spirit of God bear witness to our conscience and also guides us into what is the acceptable will of God in our lives. To ignore all the warnings to your conscience will lead one to become callous toward the Truth and a hardening of the heart toward the words of God.

Here are a few verses on conscience....

John 8:9
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.


Acts 23:1
And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.


Acts 24:16
And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.


Romans 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.


Romans 9:1
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,


Romans 13:5
Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.


1 Corinthians 8:7
Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.


1 Corinthians 8:10
For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;


1 Corinthians 8:12
But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.


1 Corinthians 10:28
But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:


2 Corinthians 1:12
For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.


2 Corinthians 4:2
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.


2 Corinthians 5:11
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


1 Timothy 1:5
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:


1 Timothy 1:19
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:


1 Timothy 3:9
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.


1 Timothy 4:2
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


2 Timothy 1:3
I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day;


Titus 1:15
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.


Hebrews 9:9
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;


Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


Hebrews 10:2
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 13:18
Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.


1 Peter 2:19
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.


1 Peter 3:16
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.


1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

amen the conscience is a way that God communicates to us, as you know, it is a part of us that keeps us on the paths God set before us, and away from the paths of the enemy. if we do wrong, we should be convicted and that should turn us to repentance, an that repentance cleanses the conscience from the act that we were sorrowful for, and repented of. we are designed By God in every way, not discounting when we hurt someone, it should bring guilt, we were wrong. do we ignore that because of Love? or do we follow it and repent because of Love is the thing to me. if we ignore our conscience, and teach people never let your conscience convict you of your wrong, we can never really repent.

 

[PeterJens]

If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
John 9:41

If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
John 15:22

If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father.
John 15:24

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
James 2:10-13

We are called to walk as pure and blameless people. How can people then claim it is ok to sin and not be convicted?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Just as you point out that "the verses the Hyper grace followers use as a stand alone "proof" of sorts to suggest that the Holy Spirit in only sent to reprove unbelievers", your use of John 16:8 to support your assertion that believers are reproved is not proper.

Read my first 2 Posts of the Op where I used John 16 as a starting to point to confirm the use of the word "reprove" there to go on from there and prove my points by using multitudes of other scriptures. I do not base my beliefs on one or two isolated verses, but take all scripture into account to base these conclusions on. The fact of the matter is this, the Holy Spirit reproves the whole world of sin, both non believers and believers. You yourself admit this. But Hyper grace followers do not admit this, and that is the whole point of me posting all those other verses and not just John 16 only.

 

[PeterJens]

As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly.
Prov 26:11


But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
2 Peter 2:1-3


Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from[d] the Lord. But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.
2 Peter 2:10-12


They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
2 Peter 2:19-22

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

amen the conscience is a way that God communicates to us, as you know, it is a part of us that keeps us on the paths God set before us, and away from the paths of the enemy. if we do wrong, we should be convicted and that should turn us to repentance, an that repentance cleanses the conscience from the act that we were sorrowful for, and repented of. we are designed By God in every way, not discounting when we hurt someone, it should bring guilt, we were wrong. do we ignore that because of Love? or do we follow it and repent because of Love is the thing to me. if we ignore our conscience, and teach people never let your conscience convict you of your wrong, we can never really repent.

And it just so happens Hyper grace followers say they need not repent of sin as well. Cannot people see the harm in this false doctrine?

 

[followjesus]

Sin - What is sin? Sin is rebellion against God and His creation.
Gods heart is in love. Where God is sin does not dwell.

Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:14

May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
1 Thess 3:13

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thess 4:7-8

Just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
Eph 5:25-27

In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:21


Sin does not dwell with Holiness. Conviction comes through 3 means at least,
1. Your conscience
2. The word
3. The Holy Spirit

Sin destroys you, takes away life and leads you to death.
The Holy Spirit as your Lord, friend and guide will always convict and lead you into
holiness and love.

Those who look only at a religion of self, define things that say conviction, or feeling bad about
behaviour or issues is evil. The issue is not to repent, or obey, or walk into the ways of the Lord
but to get rid of conviction and just work on the positive in everything.

This is in complete contrast to being built into a holy Church without blemish or wrinkle.
The idea that rebellion and sin can abide without God convicting or pointing it out is changing
the meaning of holiness and the nature of the Lord himself, which is not part of Gods revelation.

john 4:24 "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

romans 12:1 "Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship."


Gods nature will never change. He is holy and cannot have intimacy with sin.

 

[Grace777x70]

And it just so happens Hyper grace followers say they need not repent of sin as well. Cannot people see the harm in this false doctrine?

This is nonsense....and is not the truth....no one says that people don't repent of sin.

 

[followjesus]

If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
John 9:41

If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
John 15:22

If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father.
John 15:24

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
James 2:10-13

We are called to walk as pure and blameless people. How can people then claim it is ok to sin and not be convicted?

because of false doctrines that take root and change Gods Grace into what the world wants to hear. sinners don't want to have to change their ways, but sin IS death. the enemy knows it and twists Gods word, (just like in eden he knew if they ate the fruit, they would die) now, he knows if people do not repent, they will die, so " all by grace you don't need to repent or follow God, its all grace" is just another form of " did God really say don't eat the fruit? surely it wont kill you"


the enemies only method is to twist the mind of man with deception and distortion of Gods word ( false doctrine) it is His way of killing Gods children anything to pull us from the truth that Is Jesus

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

This is nonsense....and is not the truth....no one says that people don't repent of sin.

Joseph Prince: The Dangerous Error of Hyper-Grace

Quote from article....

"Hyper-Grace teaches, 'Once Born Again, Christians need never again repent for sins because they are automatically forgiven by the Blood of Jesus the moment they are committed.' This is the most Bible-illiterate, dangerous message we could accept in this crucial hour. Christians must strongly reject it.

 

[Grace777x70]

Slander is making a false statement about someone, what I said of you is true, therefore it is not slander.

More nonsense..,..and what you are saying is indeed slander and has been reported 2x times now. I'll let the mods deal with your behavior.

I believe in living a holy life depending on Christ's sacrifice for me.

Here is my testimony so that the truth can come out and reveal your slanderous posts. Paul was slanderously accused of the same thing so - that's a good sign..

Here is the link to my testimony of what I believe about the glorious gospel of the grace of Christ and of my complete dependence on Jesus for my life:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138888-metanoia-repentance-7.html#post2703042

 

[Grace777x70]

Joseph Prince: The Dangerous Error of Hyper-Grace

Quote from article....

More nonsense: That is from a self-proclaimed heretic hunters website. This is like going to an atheist website to find about the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Show us in one of the actual real books or sermon from an author himself.

Here is what we say about repentance so that the slander can be minimized here and the real truth can come out. At some point we need to start speaking the truth about things and not some "twisted" version from a heretic hunter's website.

Objection #3: Hyper-Grace Preachers Don’t Believe in Repentance

Not only do we believe in repentance, but we seek to understand and teach it thoroughly and accurately. In the New Testament, “to repent” is a translation of the Greek verb “metanoeo” meaning “to change one’s mind or perspective.” Obviously, when we receive Christ, we have repented in the genuine sense of the term – changing our minds about our need of a Savior and receiving Christ.

Before Christ, we lived as self-sufficiently as possible, thinking that God would probably grade on a curve and accept us at least partly on the basis of our own best efforts and self-generated goodness. When we came to understand our spiritual bankruptcy and our desperate need for Christ’s forgiveness and new life, we repented (had a change of perspective) and received Christ by trusting in Him alone to rescue us.

Beyond this initial experience of “getting saved” (as we often call it), repentance is a daily lifestyle in which an ongoing “renewal of the mind” process is taking place within us. As we grow in faith and in our understanding of God through His Word and our union with His Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:17), we begin to replace old thinking with new thinking and false thinking with true thinking.

This renewal of the mind (Rom. 12:1-3) is an integral part of the transformative process of the Spirit’s work in our lives. This is the essence of a lifestyle of repentance – taking false thoughts captive, making them obedient to (in conformity with) Christ (2 Cor. 10:5).

Paul affirmed in no uncertain terms that God’s kindness (His expressed grace toward us) is what leads to repentance (Rom. 2:4). Far from being anti-repentance, hyper-grace theology affirms repentance and the ongoing renewal of the mind as an integral part of what it means to follow Jesus under His New Covenant.

Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

More nonsense..,..and what you are saying is indeed slander and has been reported 2x times now. I'll let the mods deal with your behavior.

It is no secret that you support and even flood the forums with the false doctrine of Joseph Prince and the Hyper grace movement. To all that have been given eyes to see, know this is in fact false doctrine. So again, what I said is not slander if it is the truth. You just believe and promote the lies of Joseph Prince, but I do not, but rather "reprove" them.

Your accusation of slander toward me is just your own personal opinion of what you believe to be true, and what I believe to be true. Calling false doctrine false doctrine is not slander.

 

[PeterJens]

especially the acceptance grace, repentance from dead works and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood

The above quote is claimed to be about repentance. Repentance is turning from sin, wickedness and walking in right or good behaviour. It is about a change of heart, a regret over the sin done, confession of the sin itself as being wrong, and a desire to seek forgiveness.

The above statement in green does not mention any of this, but uses the idea of a repentance of self-righteousness which in terms here is referred to as dead works. The under pinning belief is that sin does not have to be repented of because on the cross it was all forgiven.

This is not traditional christianity but another faith. It is denying sin is an issue in our lives. And the measure of righteousness is no longer the law but whatever hyper-legalistic set of standards the believer invents. Some have said anything that could in any way be not believing God protects you is sin. So fearing crossing a road, or your children might be in danger or need an education, or you need to work to have a house and food etc. are all issues of sin.

The conversations therefore get extremely convoluted as nothing is in a reasonable place, because in this world nothing is reasonable. We are all totally lost sinners, but that is forgiven, so only belief and good works will be judged.

It makes these conversations almost impossible because extreme positions will be taken and the deepest insults accused against people who are just repeating the normal statements of faith. It is therefore no surprise we get a little perplexed at how we appear to be following the same faith, but in fact, it is totally different.

I personally was told this time and again, though our doctrines seemed to line up, it was like they were spitting blood for me to suggest I knew how they believed or we were even close. It came across like hatred, though I know exactly what they are believing and saying. It is taking a different ethical basis as to what is approved of behaviour and what is condemned and what you focus on everyday. To them because this is the only acceptable way of behaving I am depraved and lost.