Reproving the world of sin

[Utah]

if you want Gods grace, embrace Jesus

Your arrogance blinds you from seeing the depth of my faith in Jesus. But I digress, please tell me more about how I fall short of your perfection.

 

[FreeNChrist]

the apostle paul didn't teach what the "gog" teaches is the flaw with that thinking. he taught the same things Jesus taught. and revealed the atonement. he never taught unconditional salvation, never taught to omit Jesus. that's a terrible deception.

To say that salvation is conditional IS to omit Jesus and replace Him with yourself. Please stop doing that.

 

[FreeNChrist]

if you want Gods grace, embrace Jesus

Since you do nothing but rail against Gods grace, that must mean you are not embracing Jesus. Right?

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Try again. We who embrace God's grace do not promote living sinful, decedent lives like most self righteous Pharisees claim we do. Funny how that works.

I simply told him I do not see the love towards him as a witness to the same. Others setting themselves up as this WE team as opposed to him in the same (as if he is against grace of God) is just untrue and it would do everyone a favor to stop verbally vomiting on other.

There I tried again, funny how I know it will never work to do so.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Not towards you no, but you arent against grace, that is sort of something that is spoken against you in the sense of saying WE gracers versus you (which seeks to make it appear you despise the grace of God) or something, that is untrue.

best if folks just speak to the words spoken rather than vomit on each other inside the threads.

Would do everyone a favor to show whatever evil is there, I mean even Jesus said,

John 18:23 Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?

That's the thing, they cannot refute the wisdom and the truth in the words of God so they attack the messenger and try to misrepresent the message in order to discredit it. You know as well as I there are certain ones here who hardly ever respond to a Bible discussion topic with any king of meaningful edification from the scriptures, just personal attacks and mud slinging against those whom they dislike, which just shows a lack of God's grace and love for His words working in themselves.

The grace of God is given for the obedience of the faith, and railing against those who speak the words of God is certainly not in obedience, but in rebellion.

 

[followjesus]

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. With respect to all but apologies to no one, I proclaim the saving grace of Jesus Christ alone. Now what, pray tell, am I not doing according to Jesus Christ? I'm al ears.

I don't know your actions, I know your words.and my place is not to judge you , your works, or anything else, that's your perception you hear obey and are offended because salvation is taught by Jesus as conditional just as paul teaches this

romans 2:6-11 "God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism."


Utah I have never accused you of any action, what you do is between God and yourself. I'm talking of the doctrine were here I guess debating. does this clearly sound like Christians are accountable for their actions,? jews, Christians, whites blacks yellows...this is paul who supposedly taught grace alone, obedience will come don't obey with all of your heart mind body and strength don't try for God, just believe your new, don't do what it says, just believe its true ect... the definition " unwarranted favor" refers to the cross and its power. it doesn't change obedience is required. if those under the law we ounished so severly, due to the wrath for the blood of bulls and goats. How much more wrath will come to those who refuse the covenant that is purchased by the blood of Gods only Son?

Gods word is designed perfectly. for you to be so upset and bothered by hearing " obey my commands....butr if you do not"

Look Hes Just like God

Joshua 22:5 "But be very careful to keep the commandment and the law that Moses the servant of the LORD gave you: to love the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, to keep his commands, to hold fast to him and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul."


john 14:15-24"If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[SUP]c[/SUP] in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."


do you see the 2 covenants matching up ? Jesus nature is Just Like Gods nature. Grace doesn't mean no wrath is coming, jesus promises coming wrath, just like God promised coming wrath on the jews. when Jesus came, 30 years later Jerusalem was destroyed and gods temple hasn't been built now since then. do you see why we cant omit the conditions and commands?

 

[followjesus]

Since you do nothing but rail against Gods grace, that must mean you are not embracing Jesus. Right?

I "rail" against distorted Grace that must omit Jesus words to be true. and I embrace Jesus all of Him the one who died and the one who said

" the one who Loves me will obey my teaching. the one who does not love me, will not obey my teaching, these words you hear are not my own, but the Father who sent me"

omission of Jesus Christ is omission of Gods truth, without Gods truth, you are following the serpents deception. " I am the way and the truth and the Life, no one comes top the father accept thrpugh me"

" if you obey my commands, you will remain in my Love...

if you Love me obey my commands. I believe in Jesus, not distorted Grace that paul did not ever teach.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I simply told him I do not see the love towards him as a witness to the same. Others setting themselves up as this WE team as opposed to him in the same (as if he is against grace of God) is just untrue and it would do everyone a favor to stop verbally vomiting on other.

There I tried again, funny how I know it will never work to do so.

It's called bearing false witness saying I am against the grace of God, which they don't even think twice about doing. Leave them be, they have been this evil way ever since I have been in these forums, not likely they are going to change. I do not report people and seek justice and vengeance from men, the Lord will deal with them in His own way and time.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

That's the thing, they cannot refute the wisdom and the truth in the words of God so they attack the messenger and try to misrepresent the message in order to discredit it. You know as well as I there are certain ones here who hardly ever respond to a Bible discussion topic with any king of meaningful edification from the scriptures, just personal attacks and mud slinging against those whom they dislike, which just shows a lack of God's grace and love for His words working in themselves.

The grace of God is given for the obedience of the faith, and railing against those who speak the words of God is certainly not in obedience, but in rebellion.

You are correct, typically they dont attack the words of God but rather go after you for them and end up verbally vomiting on you after.

I would count you blessed though

 

[followjesus]

To say that salvation is conditional IS to omit Jesus and replace Him with yourself. Please stop doing that.

It is not those who call me Lord lord who will be saved (condition) but only those who do the will of my father in Heaven"

salvation is through Christ and His truth

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You are correct, typically they dont attack the words of God but rather go after you for them and end up verbally vomiting on you after.

I would count you blessed though

I am, as you also bless me with your love for the Lord and His words, and also your kindness toward me. Hugs

 

[FreeNChrist]

I "rail" against distorted Grace that must omit Jesus words to be true. and I embrace Jesus all of Him the one who died and the one who said

" the one who Loves me will obey my teaching. the one who does not love me, will not obey my teaching, these words you hear are not my own, but the Father who sent me"

omission of Jesus Christ is omission of Gods truth, without Gods truth, you are following the serpents deception. " I am the way and the truth and the Life, no one comes top the father accept thrpugh me"

" if you obey my commands, you will remain in my Love...

if you Love me obey my commands. I believe in Jesus, not distorted Grace that paul did not ever teach.

"We are not saved by what Jesus taught, and we are certainly not saved by what we understand Jesus to have taught. We are saved by Jesus Himself" -Capon

 

[FreeNChrist]

It is not those who call me Lord lord who will be saved (condition) but only those who do the will of my father in Heaven"

salvation is through Christ and His truth

[h=1]Romans 11:6[/h]"[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]But [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]if it is by grace, it is no longer [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."[/FONT]

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

I am, as you also bless me with your love for the Lord and His words, and also your kindness toward me. Hugs

Ahw, now I need to give you one of those

God has always blessed me through you since I have known you in your love for the same.

God richly bless you Bro, the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

 

[Cee]

I might add that also, some who teach of Gods' grace have their words twisted up in the mind of the one listening because they run off with one part of the teaching and don't listen more to obtain a balance. It's often necessary to maintain more than one thought in our mind at a time - the one someone is saying and the one they aren't saying, which we know to be the tension to the one they ARE saying. I actually HAVE seen people listen to a teacher I really like and learn from and then go around saying stuff like...it doesn't matter if I sin - I'm under grace, when that wasn't the total teaching at ALL.

We are quite capable of hearing only the part of what someone says that we WANT to hear. If someone says something that seems to disturb me, I will listen even more carefully to what they are saying than if they didn't disturb me. Because a good teacher will usually be fully aware that there may be some disturbance and they address it at some point in their teaching.

Super good point!

God builds precept upon precept. Line upon line. Here a little there a little.

If I feel called to share about love, I will focus on love completely, even if to the unlearned I come off as not discussing obedience, grace, etc. But that's because I am building where I feel His grace.

It is not us who teach, but the Holy Spirit. That means we don't need to let fear set the agenda. His Kingdom is peace. In my early years I used to try to get everyone to agree with my "truths" now I desire that people would have encounter with Truth.

Jesus Himself only answered a few questions directly, the rest He asked back to them. He had a high value for people encountering truth, seeking it out, and only giving to those who sincerely wanted.

He went so far as to say don't share your pearls before pigs. Or else they will turn on you and consume you.

 

[Cee]

the apostle paul didn't teach what the "gog" teaches is the flaw with that thinking. he taught the same things Jesus taught. and revealed the atonement. he never taught unconditional salvation, never taught to omit Jesus. that's a terrible deception.

So at what point did you become a new creation, reborn, sealed with His Spirit, a child of God, die to your old self and become reborn in Him in righteousness, justification, and His glory?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I've noted a tendency in myself to agree with what someone has said but then want to say, but ALSO, keep such and such in mind.

I can be a bit demanding. I want an author to cover everything and seem to be suspicious of him if he doesn't. But who can cover all of God in one book or post?? It's impossible. I've gotten better at being able to just say, this is truth, without demanding that the tension to it be added, but I still catch myself sometimes being very demanding.

Sorry, that was in response to cee's prior post.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

amen the conscience is a way that God communicates to us, as you know, it is a part of us that keeps us on the paths God set before us, and away from the paths of the enemy. if we do wrong, we should be convicted and that should turn us to repentance, an that repentance cleanses the conscience from the act that we were sorrowful for, and repented of. we are designed By God in every way, not discounting when we hurt someone, it should bring guilt, we were wrong. do we ignore that because of Love? or do we follow it and repent because of Love is the thing to me. if we ignore our conscience, and teach people never let your conscience convict you of your wrong, we can never really repent.

God gave a conscience to everyone – believer and non-believer alike. The conscience is to bring us to God by way of our acknowledging our wrongdoing. However, we can over-rule our conscience and turn from God.

To be born again and have the gift of HS within is so much better than just having the conscience at work within.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Just as you point out that "the verses the Hyper grace followers use as a stand alone "proof" of sorts to suggest that the Holy Spirit in only sent to reprove unbelievers", your use of John 16:8 to support your assertion that believers are reproved is not proper.

Read my first 2 Posts of the Op where I used John 16 as a starting to point to confirm the use of the word "reprove" there to go on from there and prove my points by using multitudes of other scriptures. I do not base my beliefs on one or two isolated verses, but take all scripture into account to base these conclusions on.

In your first 2 posts of the OP you posted each use of the word elegchō. However, none of those verses state the Holy Spirit reproves believers of sin.


The verses show men/women reprove other men/women; the conscience reproves; light reproves; the Word of God reproves; the Father reproves His children; the law reproves.

The fact of the matter is this, the Holy Spirit reproves the whole world of sin, both non believers and believers.

The fact of the matter is the Holy Spirit reproves the world of the sin of not believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:8-9). Only non believers do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you (believers) – John 16:8.

 

[followjesus]

Your arrogance blinds you from seeing the depth of my faith in Jesus. But I digress, please tell me more about how I fall short of your perfection.

I have never said anything like that. I'm telling you this : Go learn the 4 gospels ALL of them and ask yourself "what id the Lord saying to His people?" what you will find, is God the Father giving His commandments perfected in Grace through Jesus Christ our only sovereign and Lord. Our only foundation of doctrine is the commands of Jesus, which when learned and applied are Love for one another. we learn How to Love as He Loved us, by " taking His yoke upon ourselves and lerning from Him, for he is Gentle and huimble in heart"

this does not translate nor do pauls writings as there are no commandments that lead to eternal Life, and no choice for the person. it does not mean it will be easy or its just gonna happen, we give our full allegiance our full belief to Jesus the one taught in His own words and ways.

like you folks always do, you take truth and accept it as judgement on you or how you are living. again I have noi clue Utah, how you live, how you treat others in your life, all I know of YOU is what I have read in these forums. and never one time Have I pretended to know if you live in disobedience. you are reacting to the teaching of the gospel. if Jesus says this

and when you stand praying, forgive any greivances you have SO THAT your father may orgive you your sins. and he says " for if you forgive others when they sin against you, your Father in heaven will forgive you your sins. if you do not forgive others, your heavely Father will not forgive you your sins."

and yes Jesus clearly said and taught this, then what idea or thought will ever take His authority away? there is a clear condition taught. be merciful and you will receive mercy, if you do not, you will not receive mercy ( parable of the unforgiving debtor) you will receive wrath. Jesus died and rose, with all authority on earth and also in heaven, He says clearly " go to all people and teach everything I taught you, teach them to obey my commands" so why or how is someone who is saying to others " obey Jesus" learn Jesus" follow Jesus" He is the only way" Jesus is full of Grace ans truth" Hes trhe Lord" look Jesus says you must do these things he is teaching ect.....how is this person somehow a "heretic"? it Jesus and what Jesus taught His followers to do, and to teach others to do. there is no argument against this. why ? because I said it in no way does it matter if I say it, isat says it, pilgrim, you, grace 777 it doesn't matter who is saying something, it matters if it is the Truth that is written in Gods word. clearly, Jesus knew the truth, taught the truth, was the truth. I am not against Grace it is found in the gospel to save souls from sin and death. you were saved by Grace to learn Jesus and follow Him as one follows their Lord.