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Brother, what you say is true. And I fully understood the question he asked in the OP. That does not, in any way, change the responses I have posted regarding his question and the comments of others who have posted on this thread.
His question is a "non-starter." He is posing a question/situation that WILL NEVER HAPPEN. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN. I know that people believe that "all things are possible," but that IS N0T the truth.
In this case, God HIMSELF said THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN! To even suggest that it "is possible" that God would "ask someone" to sacrifice their child is to call God a liar. God IS NOT a liar.
I hope YOU understand this. THE QUESTION IS BASED ON A FALSE PRESUMPTION OF IT BEING POSSIBLE THAT GOD WOULD ASK A PERSON TO DO SUCH A THING..............HE NEVER WILL........ergo, the whole concept put forth in the OP is based on a false assumption/speculation.
Why then even entertain such a question? In my mind it is so very close to open heresy (because it calls God a liar) as to be very, very dangerous to entertain such a question,.
His question is a "non-starter." He is posing a question/situation that WILL NEVER HAPPEN. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN. I know that people believe that "all things are possible," but that IS N0T the truth.
In this case, God HIMSELF said THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN! To even suggest that it "is possible" that God would "ask someone" to sacrifice their child is to call God a liar. God IS NOT a liar.
I hope YOU understand this. THE QUESTION IS BASED ON A FALSE PRESUMPTION OF IT BEING POSSIBLE THAT GOD WOULD ASK A PERSON TO DO SUCH A THING..............HE NEVER WILL........ergo, the whole concept put forth in the OP is based on a false assumption/speculation.
Why then even entertain such a question? In my mind it is so very close to open heresy (because it calls God a liar) as to be very, very dangerous to entertain such a question,.
S
Whether God is real is not the issue. The issue is HOW do you know anything about God with any level of confidence and justification, the difference between knowledge and faith. I find that I cannot just "believe in my heart" anymore, I am looking for knowledge, something concrete.
So from your questions I gather you think you have a surefire way to know. Please share it with me, I am interested, because I'm developping the opinion no such surefire way exists and I'm skeptical I missed any that would be obvious.
So from your questions I gather you think you have a surefire way to know. Please share it with me, I am interested, because I'm developping the opinion no such surefire way exists and I'm skeptical I missed any that would be obvious.
S
what you don't seem to get is that the question is not really about sacrifice, it is about the ambiguity of bible based moral judgements. I thought child sacrifice was a controversial enough to attract attention and get enough responses to give me an idea of whether such answers were open to interpretation or not. Result: they are.
My point being : how can we know what God wants from us if scripture is open to interpretation? that's where the discussion has moved now.
And if you want another question in the same vein, what about this one:
" Can you make a moral judgment against rape or slavery using only scripture?".
I tried. I searched, I asked. So far I can't. That kind of thing fuels my distrust of revelation and that is why I'm looking for another way to "know" what God wants.
I have been offered "wisdom from above", trust in the Holy Spirit" and such, and I explained in a previou post why i find them inadequate to fulfil the function of "knowing". Now that's what I want to talk about. The point about child sacrifice has been made.
My point being : how can we know what God wants from us if scripture is open to interpretation? that's where the discussion has moved now.
And if you want another question in the same vein, what about this one:
" Can you make a moral judgment against rape or slavery using only scripture?".
I tried. I searched, I asked. So far I can't. That kind of thing fuels my distrust of revelation and that is why I'm looking for another way to "know" what God wants.
I have been offered "wisdom from above", trust in the Holy Spirit" and such, and I explained in a previou post why i find them inadequate to fulfil the function of "knowing". Now that's what I want to talk about. The point about child sacrifice has been made.
You are just blowing smoke now to try and disguise the truth of the question you posed in the OP. As for this most recent "question" of yours, IF you have searched Scripture and not found the answer you were seeking, you have done a lousy job of searching Scripture. I am not going to put forth the effort to do the work for you.
IF YOU TRULY LOVE GOD, and truly seek understanding, you will, with a sincere and contrite heart, pray to God to allow the Holy Spirit to impart understanding to you.
However, for this to happen, one must be a saved, SANCTIFIED, and justified believer in and follower of Jesus Christ. If you do not meet this qualification, well, that may be the "starting point" for you finding answers to the questions you have.
I see no evidence (based on your comments here) that you have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Does not mean you are not saved. Only you and God know that for sure, it simply means you are still a "carnal believer" who remains chained to the earthly things of this world, and have not yet been Sanctified.
Do some soul searching, determine IF you are Sanctified and Justified, which I see no evidence of, and if you doubt these, get to work on them. For they are FAR MORE IMPORTANT than these nonsensical questions you are asking.
IF YOU TRULY LOVE GOD, and truly seek understanding, you will, with a sincere and contrite heart, pray to God to allow the Holy Spirit to impart understanding to you.
However, for this to happen, one must be a saved, SANCTIFIED, and justified believer in and follower of Jesus Christ. If you do not meet this qualification, well, that may be the "starting point" for you finding answers to the questions you have.
I see no evidence (based on your comments here) that you have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Does not mean you are not saved. Only you and God know that for sure, it simply means you are still a "carnal believer" who remains chained to the earthly things of this world, and have not yet been Sanctified.
Do some soul searching, determine IF you are Sanctified and Justified, which I see no evidence of, and if you doubt these, get to work on them. For they are FAR MORE IMPORTANT than these nonsensical questions you are asking.
Exhibit 1:
what you don't seem to get is that the question is not really about sacrifice, it is about the ambiguity of bible based moral judgements. I thought child sacrifice was a controversial enough to attract attention and get enough responses to give me an idea of whether such answers were open to interpretation or not. Result: they are.
My point being : how can we know what God wants from us if scripture is open to interpretation? that's where the discussion has moved now.
And if you want another question in the same vein, what about this one:
" Can you make a moral judgment against rape or slavery using only scripture?".
I tried. I searched, I asked. So far I can't. That kind of thing fuels my distrust of revelation and that is why I'm looking for another way to "know" what God wants.
I have been offered "wisdom from above", trust in the Holy Spirit" and such, and I explained in a previou post why i find them inadequate to fulfil the function of "knowing". Now that's what I want to talk about. The point about child sacrifice has been made.
what you don't seem to get is that the question is not really about sacrifice, it is about the ambiguity of bible based moral judgements. I thought child sacrifice was a controversial enough to attract attention and get enough responses to give me an idea of whether such answers were open to interpretation or not. Result: they are.
My point being : how can we know what God wants from us if scripture is open to interpretation? that's where the discussion has moved now.
And if you want another question in the same vein, what about this one:
" Can you make a moral judgment against rape or slavery using only scripture?".
I tried. I searched, I asked. So far I can't. That kind of thing fuels my distrust of revelation and that is why I'm looking for another way to "know" what God wants.
I have been offered "wisdom from above", trust in the Holy Spirit" and such, and I explained in a previou post why i find them inadequate to fulfil the function of "knowing". Now that's what I want to talk about. The point about child sacrifice has been made.
J
I believe that one this question is a good question. I believe we must follow God and leen not unto our own understanding. I would also like to say that any sacrifice now would be a complete abomination for Jesus Christ died for our sins and to present a sacrifice after the perfect sacrifice is a slap in the face to God. I would hate to be any that partake in such things.
S
As for calling God a liar, i think you need to read your bible more:
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets. 2 Chronicles 18:22
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people. Jeremiah 4:10
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jeremiah 20:7
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11
Just saying
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets. 2 Chronicles 18:22
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people. Jeremiah 4:10
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jeremiah 20:7
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11
Just saying
A
If you go and talk to woman who gave birth to you, do you question if she really exists and if you are really talking to her?
The Holy Spirit is given to people who have been born again as children of God. He is as real to us as your earthly mother is to you.
Scripture is not open to private interpertation, it is explained and revealed by the Holy Spirit.
You don't believe in the Holy Spirit and never heard from Him, but if you pray and truly seek to know God. If you truly believe the Gospel that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, then God will answer your prayers.
Otherwise this conversation will never make sense to you.
It is like talking in a foreign language, the Holy Spirit is the translator. It's all just gibberish and nonsense without Him.
The Holy Spirit is given to people who have been born again as children of God. He is as real to us as your earthly mother is to you.
Scripture is not open to private interpertation, it is explained and revealed by the Holy Spirit.
You don't believe in the Holy Spirit and never heard from Him, but if you pray and truly seek to know God. If you truly believe the Gospel that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, then God will answer your prayers.
Otherwise this conversation will never make sense to you.
It is like talking in a foreign language, the Holy Spirit is the translator. It's all just gibberish and nonsense without Him.
:haha: indeed
as it is writen
:read:
1 Mga Hari: 21. 19. And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou killed, and also taken possession? And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, In the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine.
as it is writen
:read:
1 Mga Hari: 21. 19. And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou killed, and also taken possession? And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, In the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine.
S
My mother is a physical, natural object, as you and I, and i can hug her and kiss her and protect her from people who want to do her harm. The Holy spirit is no such thing, it is a supernatural thing, you can't share it, measure it or poke it, much less hug it, it is a feeling, an emotion, it is abstract, it is subjective. If you cannot make the difference between an abstract spirit and a physical body you have some serious mental problems. the born again you refer to is a metaphor. it doesn't mean you actually go through a womb. why do i need to point this out? don't you understand the difference between objective and subjective? metaphors and reality?
scripture is open to interpretation, it is undeniable. if scripture was not open to private interpretation, everybody who reads it would agree about at least the most important points. That there is more than 40 000 different denomination of christians clearly proves that scripture is open to interpretation, how else do you explain the diversity of interpretations? just check the various answers on this thread... if the bible was not open to interpretation, then people would not offer all those interpretations, that's obvious. and if the Holy spirit translates, as you say, then why does it translate different things to different people? it sounds uncannily like private interpretation to me...
Have you ever considered the option that the Holy spirit you refer to is a figment of your imagination?
if not, then does it means you have never verified it wasn't? and if you haven't verified, then how can be sure?
and you are wrong, this conversation is making more and more sense to me, the longer it goes the more it reinforces the disturbing thought that compelled me to start this thread, that there is a lot of made up stuff masquerading as "knowledge" in christianity... that is becoming increasingly obvious to me; i haven't yet thought too much about the implications but it is disturbing...
scripture is open to interpretation, it is undeniable. if scripture was not open to private interpretation, everybody who reads it would agree about at least the most important points. That there is more than 40 000 different denomination of christians clearly proves that scripture is open to interpretation, how else do you explain the diversity of interpretations? just check the various answers on this thread... if the bible was not open to interpretation, then people would not offer all those interpretations, that's obvious. and if the Holy spirit translates, as you say, then why does it translate different things to different people? it sounds uncannily like private interpretation to me...
Have you ever considered the option that the Holy spirit you refer to is a figment of your imagination?
if not, then does it means you have never verified it wasn't? and if you haven't verified, then how can be sure?
and you are wrong, this conversation is making more and more sense to me, the longer it goes the more it reinforces the disturbing thought that compelled me to start this thread, that there is a lot of made up stuff masquerading as "knowledge" in christianity... that is becoming increasingly obvious to me; i haven't yet thought too much about the implications but it is disturbing...
"In any unbelieving argument or reasoning, you must always start with premises which need not to be proved in order for an argument to go on for either they have already been verified to be true or they are merely assumed to be true for the sake of argument" PAE
So, How do you know that you really know what you pretend to know?
L
who was killing their children?
the Israelite's? or was it perhaps the nations around them who offered their children to Molech?
you say you are struggling with the concept of child killing in the Bible...well, struggle no more..God never had anyone kill their child and it is obvious from the story of Abraham and Issac, that He never would have allowed anyone to kill their child as a sacrifice to Him
your question is a non sequitor since no child was ever offered to the God of all creation. children were offered to pagan gods...notice the small g...
SOURCE for further reading on the subject
P
First and foremost Jesus laid down his life no one took it. Let's get that straight right now. He was willing and wanting to do the will of the father. What ever it took. The wages of sin is death but there is so much more to the story. It took Devine intervention to save man, a holy and loving , willing sacrifice that would not only die but would meet all the requirements of the word of God. So God offered himself because there was no other.
To label this as a child sacrifice shows your lack of understanding of scripture. Abraham was stopped because God would provide.
There is so much more that happened on Calvary that day to think that the gruesome details are what pleased God is so far from the truth it scares me. A pure heart, a willingness, without sin, silence, a bloodline, compassion, love, obedience, just to name a few requirements to be excepted by God. Do you know any sheep, bull or man that possesses the requirements?
To label this as a child sacrifice shows your lack of understanding of scripture. Abraham was stopped because God would provide.
There is so much more that happened on Calvary that day to think that the gruesome details are what pleased God is so far from the truth it scares me. A pure heart, a willingness, without sin, silence, a bloodline, compassion, love, obedience, just to name a few requirements to be excepted by God. Do you know any sheep, bull or man that possesses the requirements?