Reproving the world of sin

[followjesus]

God gave a conscience to everyone – believer and non-believer alike. The conscience is to bring us to God by way of our acknowledging our wrongdoing. However, we can over-rule our conscience and turn from God.

To be born again and have the gift of HS within is so much better than just having the conscience at work within.

the holy spirit speaks through the conscience to a believer who doesn't refuse to hear their conscience, God designed us with one for the purpose of guiding us. if I'm in the wrong I WANT to know it, I want to feel bad if ive done someone wrong, if ive done God wrong I pray earnestly for years now, for a sensitive conscience. it is part of Gods design and the warnings, commands and principles taught in the word, activate that conscience for those who accept Jesus to guide us into all truth and righteousness. the conscience is a tool for the holy spirits work in us

 

[fredoheaven]

Not all grace teachers omit and twist.

To All,

ATTENTION PLEASE and see above...

Thank you

 

[followjesus]

So at what point did you become a new creation, reborn, sealed with His Spirit, a child of God, die to your old self and become reborn in Him in righteousness, justification, and His glory?

The moment I Believed in Jesus. not only that He exists mind you. But as paul clearly taught that ":his": gos[pel declares " believe in thy heart, and confess with thy mouth that Jesus is Lord and thy shall be saved." that word Lord is not to be removed from the confession. and if one confesses Jesus is Lord. what I'm saying to you, is " you are slaves to the one you obey" or in Jesus words " why do you call me Lord and do not obey me?" or as peter says " now that you have obeyed the truth so that you have sincere Love for your brothers ect.....the gospel is all of Jesus not the " finished work" there is no secret to this. its simple what I'm saying

you are born again by believing the truth, the message of Gods only Son. my point is that we don't take the benefit of forgiveness and omit the things He who died, said. you see its not me saying obey, obey...that's what Jesus said. grace? mercy? " by grace I have forgiven you everything, but I Jesus paid the highest of all prices for this free gift. You now are born of my spirit because you believe what God has said about me. you are now born again clean and new I hold nothing against you salvation is at your fingertips...now obey my Sons teachings and you will live forever. do you need to be operfect in all obedience for me to save you? you need to obey... forgive and you will be forgiven" provision right there for anyone who will obey to have all the forgiveness they will ever need to remain in Christ.


to your question remember the patient gardener. we may be born as a branch, but at some point if we do not show the fruit of Obedience to Gods commands, we will wither be cut off and burned. once born again, we are not free of obliugation, we can very much turn against God if we follow after the old nature. that old nature is infact crucified as we " lay down ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Jesus daily" that's us taking our cross crucifying our selfish nature by laying down self to love others. that's our path. some may call it sanctification, but sanctification is Gods will for man.


when a person is born again, they aren't born knowing it all or in maturity. they come as children who believe their fathers word about His son. but we are not saved without taking seriously the confession Lord. that is an agreement with God to obey in itself. for who has a lord and disregards His commands that He said to obey? that's my point, I'm no doom and gloom guy scaring people here. I see a doctrine that the word of God rebukes harshly and if a person accepts the omission of Jesus words and their authority eternally. " heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" and I choose to believe what Jesus Taught. I believe in Jesus. that the bible is true. that the words He spoke, were the words of God " everything I have said to you is just what my Father commanded me to say"


you are born again by accepting the Lord. you learn paul and you understand the atonements power over sin in you, you then go obey Jesus with all of your heart. am I saying you are perfect and never mess up? never say the wrong thing and hurt another? nope. I'm saying as you Learn you obey. your full heart has to belong to Jesus as the Lord. the Lord of you. if you believe that part as paul teaches, THEN obedience goes to work, until your faith says " I must obey Gods commands" no one can ever obey.

 

[followjesus]

To All,

ATTENTION PLEASE and see above...

Thank you

true indeed how do we know who does? we learn what Jesus taught us to know and do and teach. Go forth into all nations baptizing the, in the name of the Father, Son and holy spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you surely I am with you even to the end of the age." Grace is CERTAINLY CERTAINLY in Christ, but it is found In Christ.

 

[Stephen63]

"We are not saved by what Jesus taught, and we are certainly not saved by what we understand Jesus to have taught. We are saved by Jesus Himself" -Capon

John 1:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Do you go out of your way to sow garbage to upset folks, or do you push your agenda just to see how far you can go? HOW can you possibly think you could get away with such a statement?

 

[FreeNChrist]

John 1:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Do you go out of your way to sow garbage to upset folks, or do you push your agenda just to see how far you can go? HOW can you possibly think you could get away with such a statement?

It's not my statement, but I totally agree with it. How could YOU not agree with it?

 

[followjesus]

Super good point!

God builds precept upon precept. Line upon line. Here a little there a little.

If I feel called to share about love, I will focus on love completely, even if to the unlearned I come off as not discussing obedience, grace, etc. But that's because I am building where I feel His grace.

It is not us who teach, but the Holy Spirit. That means we don't need to let fear set the agenda. His Kingdom is peace. In my early years I used to try to get everyone to agree with my "truths" now I desire that people would have encounter with Truth.

Jesus Himself only answered a few questions directly, the rest He asked back to them. He had a high value for people encountering truth, seeking it out, and only giving to those who sincerely wanted.

He went so far as to say don't share your pearls before pigs. Or else they will turn on you and consume you.

both really good points there. your comment and the one you were replying to. if we have a standard of truth, and we do. then we are able to keep doctrine sound. "

1 timothy 6:3-4 "If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, they are conceited and understand nothing...."


2 john 1:9 "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."

just 2 examples. we do have a standard for doctrine, doctrine is of dire importance because our faith ( what we believe) is where we will go. there is a reason the 4 gospels are accounts of the same events. " let every matter be established by 2 or 3 witnesses" the 4 gospels are the only books called gospels. its about The truth, not mine or anyone elses, but Jesus' truth. we have the tools to know truth and fallacy and are taught to keep things true and make sure what is taught is correct and agrees with the Lord

 

[gb9]

John 1:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Do you go out of your way to sow garbage to upset folks, or do you push your agenda just to see how far you can go? HOW can you possibly think you could get away with such a statement?

so, we are not saved by Christ?? wow dude, I think a while back you were pastoring a church. you might want to figure out how we get to Heaven when Jesus said he was the door. is He a bridge, and your works are the door that opens onto the bridge??

file this under " stuff you never thought you would see on a Christian chat site.

 

[followjesus]

Romans 11:6

"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

are you realizing that Jesus is the one who said " it is not those who call me lord but only those who do the will of God" you see if a persons view of Grace, has to say what Jesus said is incorrect, the person is not seeing Gods grace, but mans misunderstanding of it. would God do all He did for us in Jesus and then grant a grace that omits His son who suffered and died an agonizing death? No, he will not ever say or teach anything against what Jesus taught if Grace has to omit Jesus words it is a mis concepted grace

 

[followjesus]

so, we are not saved by Christ?? wow dude, I think a while back you were pastoring a church. you might want to figure out how we get to Heaven when Jesus said he was the door. is He a bridge, and your works are the door that opens onto the bridge??

file this under " stuff you never thought you would see on a Christian chat site.

the door is open, we just need to follow Jesus instructions telling us how to walk through that door.

 

[Cee]

I think we are actually pretty much in agreement. I like a lot of what you wrote to me.

I see it as obedience because we are saved, the Holy Spirit is well able to make those who belong to Him stand or fall.

Romans 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

But I also agree with stressing obedience, but I do it from a viewpoint of the goodness and kindness of God since I believe that leads people into true repentance. They go from "I have to" follow God into "I get to" follow God.

Romans 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

I believe this is also what Paul did when his people were in sin at some level.

1 Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

But I do want to comment I love that you are focusing on loving one another as the replacement of no longer sinning.

Gal 5:13 For you were called to be free, brothers; only don't use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but serve one another through love.

I rarely see that.

both really good points there. your comment and the one you were replying to. if we have a standard of truth, and we do. then we are able to keep doctrine sound. "

1 timothy 6:3-4 "If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, they are conceited and understand nothing...."


2 john 1:9 "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."

just 2 examples. we do have a standard for doctrine, doctrine is of dire importance because our faith ( what we believe) is where we will go. there is a reason the 4 gospels are accounts of the same events. " let every matter be established by 2 or 3 witnesses" the 4 gospels are the only books called gospels. its about The truth, not mine or anyone elses, but Jesus' truth. we have the tools to know truth and fallacy and are taught to keep things true and make sure what is taught is correct and agrees with the Lord

 

[followjesus]

I am, as you also bless me with your love for the Lord and His words, and also your kindness toward me. Hugs

pilgrims da bomb lol

 

[followjesus]

I think we are actually pretty much in agreement. I like a lot of what you wrote to me.

I see it as obedience because we are saved, the Holy Spirit is well able to make those who belong to Him stand or fall.

Romans 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

But I also agree with stressing obedience, but I do it from a viewpoint of the goodness and kindness of God since I believe that leads people into true repentance. They go from "I have to" follow God into "I get to" follow God.

Romans 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

I believe this is also what Paul did when his people were in sin at some level.

1 Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

But I do want to comment I love that you are focusing on loving one another as the replacement of no longer sinning.

Gal 5:13 For you were called to be free, brothers; only don't use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but serve one another through love.

I rarely see that.

I too see much agreement in the comments and things you leave on this site, edifying indeed. and understand what you are saying in the above comment as well. I believe that we need to hear both sides of this. we have to hear " you are forgiven, God Loves you, He sent Jesus to die for you just because He Loves you, He is with you, for you and not against you, obey Him"

yet also, I have in my own conscience that His word is designed with warnings for us, to keep us from harm, to keeop us from death, to use reverant fear to motivate us when we are complacent, Gods nature is gentle, stern, righteous, just, merciful, and any other wuality we see in scripture, His word reflects it. I hope to run into you more as I have said, I believe you have good grasp of many things in Christ and edification for those who hear the word.

God bless and keep you in all things true and relevant in Christ for the edification of His people who hear you

 

[followjesus]

"We are not saved by what Jesus taught, and we are certainly not saved by what we understand Jesus to have taught. We are saved by Jesus Himself" -Capon

in other words you are saved by Jesus , just don't want to hear him saying " obey my commands" do you know that He died for you? and all of His commands are good and right? do you know that He is teaching people how to live eternally as Gods beloeved children? do you know the promise for accepting Him? a perfect eternal world with no more pain, suffering, tears, hunger, violence ect. where our loved ones will never pass away? do you know that its beyond our minds ability to conceive how wonderful Hois promises for accepting Him ? we cant even imagine how wonderful eternal life will be....


all because Jesus took beatings and whipping, he was spit on and mocked and nailed to a cross, just because He loves you and wants to save your everlasting Life? do you know he also said " obey my commands"? this same one who suffered on your own personal behalf to give you life and a promise of eternity in glory and Love, majesty and honor? that's why following Him, accepoting His words is much better than saying " grace grace" why ? because its what Jesus who did all that said. Honor the Lord Jesus Christ, and He will honor you for eternity

 

[Utah]

I simply told him I do not see the love towards him as a witness to the same. Others setting themselves up as this WE team as opposed to him in the same (as if he is against grace of God) is just untrue and it would do everyone a favor to stop verbally vomiting on other.

There I tried again, funny how I know it will never work to do so.

Vomit is a good word you use since that's all you works-salvation-perfectionists preach is verbal vomit. I'm with Jesus, washed in His blood. You peeps are the dividers, but thanks be to God, not the conquerors. Like I said, try again.

 

[Utah]

I don't know your actions, I know your words.and my place is not to judge you , your works, or anything else, that's your perception you hear obey and are offended because salvation is taught by Jesus as conditional just as paul teaches this

romans 2:6-11 "God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism."


Utah I have never accused you of any action, what you do is between God and yourself. I'm talking of the doctrine were here I guess debating. does this clearly sound like Christians are accountable for their actions,? jews, Christians, whites blacks yellows...this is paul who supposedly taught grace alone, obedience will come don't obey with all of your heart mind body and strength don't try for God, just believe your new, don't do what it says, just believe its true ect... the definition " unwarranted favor" refers to the cross and its power. it doesn't change obedience is required. if those under the law we ounished so severly, due to the wrath for the blood of bulls and goats. How much more wrath will come to those who refuse the covenant that is purchased by the blood of Gods only Son?

Gods word is designed perfectly. for you to be so upset and bothered by hearing " obey my commands....butr if you do not"

Look Hes Just like God

Joshua 22:5 "But be very careful to keep the commandment and the law that Moses the servant of the LORD gave you: to love the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, to keep his commands, to hold fast to him and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul."


john 14:15-24"If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[SUP]c[/SUP] in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."


do you see the 2 covenants matching up ? Jesus nature is Just Like Gods nature. Grace doesn't mean no wrath is coming, jesus promises coming wrath, just like God promised coming wrath on the jews. when Jesus came, 30 years later Jerusalem was destroyed and gods temple hasn't been built now since then. do you see why we cant omit the conditions and commands?

Salvation is conditional in Jesus Christ? Saved by grace through faith in Christ doesn't jive with you? You don't judge? You're a hoot, and a very misguided one at that. Salvation conditional; give me a break.

 

[Utah]

It's called bearing false witness saying I am against the grace of God, which they don't even think twice about doing. Leave them be, they have been this evil way ever since I have been in these forums, not likely they are going to change. I do not report people and seek justice and vengeance from men, the Lord will deal with them in His own way and time.

False witnesses; evil ways; lol! Man you're going to all out hate seeing us rejoicing in the Kingdom of Heaven. But I digress, continue in your pharisaic arrogance against those of us who know we need God and give Him thanks and praise for His love, mercy and grace.

 

[Utah]

It is not those who call me Lord lord who will be saved (condition) but only those who do the will of my father in Heaven"

salvation is through Christ and His truth

And the will of the Father is to believe in Jesus.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Vomit is a good word you use since that's all you works-salvation-perfectionists preach is verbal vomit. I'm with Jesus, washed in His blood. You peeps are the dividers, but thanks be to God, not the conquerors. Like I said, try again.

You will have to quote what you are talking about, Jesus even says to his accusers

John 18:23 [FONT=&quot]Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?

I will stay with Jesus on this also[/FONT]

 

[Stephen63]

so, we are not saved by Christ?? wow dude, I think a while back you were pastoring a church. you might want to figure out how we get to Heaven when Jesus said he was the door. is He a bridge, and your works are the door that opens onto the bridge??

file this under " stuff you never thought you would see on a Christian chat site.

Read:

"We are not saved by what Jesus taught, and we are certainly not saved by what we understand Jesus to have taught. We are saved by Jesus Himself" -Capon

Twisting words again, are we?

The point IS, you can't separate Christ from the Word for they are one & the same. We are saved by Christ & we can be condemned to destruction by Christ. Jesus says you can lose your salvation, so then you can.