Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[UnderGrace]

Verses 18 through 22 refer to people who are duped by the false teachers.

Verses 18 and 20 indicate that the people being drawn into sin by the false teachers are those "who have actually escaped from those who live in error" and who "have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

Only believers fit that description.

The word "knowledge" in v 20 is the same term which is used in 1:2,3,5,6. It is a term used in 2 Peter exclusively of believers. See also 1:1,9 and 3:1,8,14,17-18 for further proof that 2 Peter is addressed to believers.

Notice that the dog and pig are said to have been free from their filth.

As well, Peter, had started laying out his point here that whenever a believer walks in the darkness he has forgotten who he is (2 Peter 1:9) and has allowed the flesh to rear its ugly head. Believing false teachers can cause this to happen. That is the whole point of what Peter is writing about.

Been better for them if they had not followed false teachers in this life, no mention of hell or damnation.

2 Peter 2:20-22 is NOT about Believers.

Its all about those who have come to hear the Gospel, who have listened to the Gospel, but who have rejected the Gospel and walked away. This is who Peter is talking about.

If they never had the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, then they can boast before God they never knew the Truth. But since they have known the Truth and have walked away from the Truth they now have no excuse before God for rejecting the Gospel.

This is what Peter is saying. These verses do not apply to the Children of God. They only apply to those who reject Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

 

[p_rehbein]

Re: Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the church!

Some people just prefer to remain on that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security and misery loves company.

Love ya Bro...........but, this is what I spoke of in my first comment here. People who disagree with the ideology of OSAS are NOT living in fear, nor denying the wonderful gift of the grace of God. Yet, OSAS supporters must portray us to be such, and demean/degrade us for disagreeing with them. Not a lot of Christian love, fellowship and understanding/acceptance there is there. Seriously.

If we willingly accept those who support OSAS as Brothers and Sisters in Christ, why do you guys insist in demeaning and degrading us? I do not understand that. It's like you guys are the Saturday Sabbath Keepers hiding behind the veil of OSAS.

So, please explain to me why those who support the ideology of OSAS, deny the ideology of Free Will? Are you guys really Calvinist's in sheeps clothing? Hmm

(Inquiring minds wanna know )

 

[Stephen63]

Before I post some more scripture, here's some commentary on the 2Peter issue:

Here is a sad proof of the possibility of falling from grace, and from very high degrees of it too. These had escaped from the contagion that was in the world; they had had true repentance, and cast up "their soursweet morsel of sin;" they had been washed from all their filthiness, and this must have been through the blood of the Lamb; yet, after all, they went back, got entangled with their old sins, swallowed down their formerly rejected lusts, and rewallowed in the mire of corruption. It is no wonder that God should say, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning: reason and nature say it must be so; and Divine justice says it ought to be so; and the person himself must confess that it is right that it should be so. But how dreadful is this state! How dangerous when the person has abandoned himself to his old sins!Adam Clarke's Commentary.

When we read this verse in context, we recognize that the people being discussed are the false teachers whom Peter opposes. They were once orthodox Christians who were "cleansed from [their] past sins" (2 Peter 1:9), or "washed" (2 Peter 2:22). They had come to know Jesus Christ, and this was a personal knowledge that released them from "the corruption of the world," or, in Pauline language, the power of sin over them had been broken. And they had come to know "the way of righteousness" (meaning a righteous lifestyle; 2 Peter 2:21). It is not that in some way they had been taught poorly or had not experienced the power of God freeing them from the world and its desires. They had experienced all of this. They were in every way righteous and orthodox.
But now they have done exactly what they are enticing others to do (2 Peter 2:18-19). They have claimed freedom, but their freedom is a freedom to live according to their desires. These desires have mastered them. They have rejected "the way of righteousness" or "the sacred command" (perhaps the teaching of Jesus or even the Old Testament standard of righteousness). They are back doing what they did before they were converted, but now they are claiming Christian justification for it.
Peter says that such people are worse off than before they were converted. He takes his words from the story in Matthew 12:45 and Luke 11:26 about the person cleansed from a demon who ends up in a worse state because the demon returns with seven others. The implication is that the person is in more bondage than before. Yet although verbally 2 Peter is closer to the statement about the demonized person, we are reminded even more of Luke 12:47-48, in which Jesus says that the person who does not know his master's will is beaten with few blows, while the one knowing it and still disobeying is beaten with many blows. Applied to the people in 2 Peter this indicates that the knowingly disobedient people he refers to will get a worse punishment than they would have received had they never been converted. They had been introduced to Jesus and experienced the power and freedom of his lordship, but now they have turned their backs on his teaching and are walking in willful disobedience.
This, then, is the state of the apostate, including the moral apostate who still tries to rationalize his or her sin with Christian theology. As Hebrews 10:26-27 says, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." These people knew the truth and had been freed from their sin, coming under the rule of Christ. Now because of their web of rationalizations Christ is no longer Lord and they "deliberately keep on sinning."
Hard Sayings of the Bible.

Tried-&-true commentaries can be useful to find answers & meaning.

 

[Stephen63]

Re: Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the church!

Why are you so afraid of Gods grace?

Some people just prefer to remain on that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security and misery loves company.

Lies & mockery.

Galatians 6:7-8 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Notice both the reap what you sow & the contrasts between life everlasting & destruction.

 

[Stephen63]

1st John 3:15 says that "if you hate your 'brother' you're a murderer and no murderer hath eternal life"

Gal 5:19-21 covers adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, HATRED, variance, emulations, WRATH, STRIFE, seditions, heresies, drunkenness, envyings, murders, and revellings...and says such a person living after flesh and not the Spirit has NO inheritance in the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Absolutely not going, christian or sinner.

1Cor 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Imagine these apostles teaching the church about sinners, as if they needed to know where sinners were going. This teaching is to the church, telling them they can't expect to go to Heaven AND do such things.

 

[AuntieAnt]

Mark 5:36 "Do not fear; only believe."

 

[UnderGrace]

I just want to know one thing Stephen63, ... do you believe your works saved you?
That can be the only conclusion when you believe that your sins can condemn you?

We come against you in words because you deny the very efficacy of the cross, the very heart of what Jesus did, you say His work is less than our sin......so yes I will continue to counter you, because ultimately I am defending what Jesus accomplished on the cross, the true cost of grace!

1st John 3:15 says that "if you hate your 'brother' you're a murderer and no murderer hath eternal life"

Gal 5:19-21 covers adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, HATRED, variance, emulations, WRATH, STRIFE, seditions, heresies, drunkenness, envyings, murders, and revellings...and says such a person living after flesh and not the Spirit has NO inheritance in the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Absolutely not going, christian or sinner.

1Cor 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Imagine these apostles teaching the church about sinners, as if they needed to know where sinners were going. This teaching is to the church, telling them they can't expect to go to Heaven AND do such things.

 

[Cee]

Read the next verse after 1 Co 6:10... as such WERE some of you. This is the answer to your question on all of these Scriptures you posted.

1st John 3:15 says that "if you hate your 'brother' you're a murderer and no murderer hath eternal life"

Gal 5:19-21 covers adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, HATRED, variance, emulations, WRATH, STRIFE, seditions, heresies, drunkenness, envyings, murders, and revellings...and says such a person living after flesh and not the Spirit has NO inheritance in the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Absolutely not going, christian or sinner.

1Cor 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Imagine these apostles teaching the church about sinners, as if they needed to know where sinners were going. This teaching is to the church, telling them they can't expect to go to Heaven AND do such things.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

Read the next verse after 1 Co 6:10... as such WERE some of you. This is the answer to your question on all of these Scriptures you posted.

Indeed. As WERE some of you, but the warning was for them to not return back to that state.

 

[Cee]

Re: Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the church!

Notice it says the flesh reaps corruption. This isn't about eternal life. It is however a very good warning about doing good to people.

Here's the continuation of your verse:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. [SUP]10 [/SUP]So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

One of the biggest issues is when we translate everything in Scripture as dealing with eternal life. But Scripture is actually talking to believers differently than unbelievers. Unbelievers need Jesus. Believers are to grow in maturity in Christ. This benediction by Paul brings us back to the command of Christ, love each other as I have loved you.

Lies & mockery.

Galatians 6:7-8 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Notice both the reap what you sow & the contrasts between life everlasting & destruction.

 

[Cee]

Indeed. As WERE some of you, but the warning was for them to not return back to that state.

Return back? No the warning was an identity statement of who they really were. Unless they weren't in the faith.

11And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

There is no warning about following the law or anything similar. In fact the NEXT verse Paul makes it clear.

12“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything.

Paul says, all things are lawful, I can do all things. But not all are profitable. I will not be dominated by anything. Including sin. And in fact, people who believe we will always dominated by sin come against these very verse! Because Paul's entire argument is to NOT be dominated by anything. Because you are washed, cleaned, justified, and glorified in Christ.

His driving conclusion is:

19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

He's not saying do this out of fear, but out of love for the one who loves you, saves you, and keeps you.

Attacking the foundation of people's salvation leads into religion.

 

[Cee]

If we don't question traditions of man, we might be lead by them instead of the Living God. Sure, we can use them as guidelines, but the Pharisees fell into the same trap. Thinking their Scripture understanding was knowing God. Thinking because they were "learned men" that they had the in road to God. I honor these men and what they have done with their lives, but it doesn't mean we can't question traditions. And in fact we should. Wouldn't you agree Catholics should question their traditions? But they can point back even further than these commentaries. Or even orthodoxy? These are great men and women, but we are not lead by other people's interpretations. We go from glory to glory. As a Charismatic believer I'm sure you can see the wisdom in that too.

Before I post some more scripture, here's some commentary on the 2Peter issue:

Here is a sad proof of the possibility of falling from grace, and from very high degrees of it too. These had escaped from the contagion that was in the world; they had had true repentance, and cast up "their soursweet morsel of sin;" they had been washed from all their filthiness, and this must have been through the blood of the Lamb; yet, after all, they went back, got entangled with their old sins, swallowed down their formerly rejected lusts, and rewallowed in the mire of corruption. It is no wonder that God should say, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning: reason and nature say it must be so; and Divine justice says it ought to be so; and the person himself must confess that it is right that it should be so. But how dreadful is this state! How dangerous when the person has abandoned himself to his old sins!Adam Clarke's Commentary.

When we read this verse in context, we recognize that the people being discussed are the false teachers whom Peter opposes. They were once orthodox Christians who were "cleansed from [their] past sins" (2 Peter 1:9), or "washed" (2 Peter 2:22). They had come to know Jesus Christ, and this was a personal knowledge that released them from "the corruption of the world," or, in Pauline language, the power of sin over them had been broken. And they had come to know "the way of righteousness" (meaning a righteous lifestyle; 2 Peter 2:21). It is not that in some way they had been taught poorly or had not experienced the power of God freeing them from the world and its desires. They had experienced all of this. They were in every way righteous and orthodox.
But now they have done exactly what they are enticing others to do (2 Peter 2:18-19). They have claimed freedom, but their freedom is a freedom to live according to their desires. These desires have mastered them. They have rejected "the way of righteousness" or "the sacred command" (perhaps the teaching of Jesus or even the Old Testament standard of righteousness). They are back doing what they did before they were converted, but now they are claiming Christian justification for it.
Peter says that such people are worse off than before they were converted. He takes his words from the story in Matthew 12:45 and Luke 11:26 about the person cleansed from a demon who ends up in a worse state because the demon returns with seven others. The implication is that the person is in more bondage than before. Yet although verbally 2 Peter is closer to the statement about the demonized person, we are reminded even more of Luke 12:47-48, in which Jesus says that the person who does not know his master's will is beaten with few blows, while the one knowing it and still disobeying is beaten with many blows. Applied to the people in 2 Peter this indicates that the knowingly disobedient people he refers to will get a worse punishment than they would have received had they never been converted. They had been introduced to Jesus and experienced the power and freedom of his lordship, but now they have turned their backs on his teaching and are walking in willful disobedience.
This, then, is the state of the apostate, including the moral apostate who still tries to rationalize his or her sin with Christian theology. As Hebrews 10:26-27 says, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." These people knew the truth and had been freed from their sin, coming under the rule of Christ. Now because of their web of rationalizations Christ is no longer Lord and they "deliberately keep on sinning."
Hard Sayings of the Bible.

Tried-&-true commentaries can be useful to find answers & meaning.

 

[Cee]

Hey, are you busy this November? We're having this (s)election thingy in the US and i'd like to vote for you instead of the circus clowns riding their tricycles in the race. I'm not even joking. For real. Please think about it. Thumbs up.

Haha you're hilarious! Thank you my friend!

 

[RobbyEarl]

OSAS is a lie, however Satan always uses a little truth in his lie. Yes, if you get saved then you are saved and nothing can detour that fact, except you. God will not override your will, if he did he would not be righteous. He will try to stop you and warn you, but will not force you.

 

[Cee]

If you wouldn't leave Him knowing how good He is, why do you think others would? Are you special?

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

They were never saved.

Remember Jesus said, I never knew you.

OSAS is a lie, however Satan always uses a little truth in his lie. Yes, if you get saved then you are saved and nothing can detour that fact, except you. God will not override your will, if he did he would not be righteous. He will try to stop you and warn you, but will not force you.

 

[RobbyEarl]

If you wouldn't leave Him knowing how good He is, why do you think others would? Are you special?

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

They were never saved.

Remember Jesus said, I never knew you.

Who made you the judge of whether or not a person was saved?

 

[RobbyEarl]

Do you know the hearts of men?

 

[Cee]

Who made you the judge of whether or not a person was saved?

The Scripture says they were never said.
And it also says they left us, to show they were never one of us.
So the Scripture says it not me.

 

[RobbyEarl]

The Scripture says they were never said.
And it also says they left us, to show they were never one of us.
So the Scripture says it not me.

Show me those Scriptures please.

 

[Cee]

Show me those Scriptures please.

Sure no problem bro.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Matt 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

2 Co 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

Here is Paul in his exhortation, saying, are you in the FAITH? Notice he is not saying, you people in the faith need to start acting right or you're going to burn FOREVER in fire. These words are not found in Scripture, in any of Paul's writings. The vague Scriptures are the ones that need to explained with clear ones.