So what about the fourth commandment?

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
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Hello Gladstone,

Sin is transgression of the law.

Which believers in Christ are not under, and that because we died with Christ and we therefore died to the law. The law is what gives sin its power over us. It is also what the powers of darkness used against us. As the scripture states, if you are going to put yourself under the law, then you must obey the entire law, not just some of it. Likewise, if you break it in just one place, you've broken the whole law. Pay close attention to what the Spirit says through Paul in the illustration below and understand that when Paul says "the law" and "the written code" that he is speaking about the whole law given to Moses.


"Do you not know, brothers (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? For instance, a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she is joined to another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law and is not an adulteress, even if she marries another man.

Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. For when we lived according to the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the Law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit for death. But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."


Through Christ we have died to the law. It no longer has authority over us. We are no longer bound to that marriage. The law is no longer our husband. Christ rescued us from the curse of the law and not just parts of it, but all of it. We are under a new covenant in the shed blood of Christ and are led by the Holy Spirit and not by the written code (law of Moses).

According to scripture, anyone trusts in the works of the law as a means for salvation i.e. to find favor with God, will not inherit the kingdom of God. And for those who say it is through Jesus only that we are saved but are promoting the law, you are indeed trusting in the law, otherwise you wouldn't be promoting the keeping of it.

It is amazing how deceiving Satan is in that, he is still able to get people to cleave to the law, which will destroy them.

 
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Everyone who believes that Yeshua is the Messiah has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:1-3 (ESV2011, MBM)
 
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Gladstone

Guest
Beware the leavening of the Pharisees. Paul was a Pharisee.

In the Old Testament God says that his commandments are everlasting and that his ordinances are a perpetual covenant, always and for ever. Jesus said that the law would not pass before heaven and earth. All things haven't been fulfilled because we still await his second coming and the eventual destruction of the earth. It doesn't matter if Paul or the Pope or any man says that the law is finished. God said to keep his commandments forever. You'll find in Acts chapter 15, where they argue that some are teaching that Gentiles need to be circumcised, and they stated that they gave no such commandment. You bet they didn't, but God did in Exodus 12:48. Remember where Jesus warned that if it were possible even the very elect would be deceived? The elect apostles were received in chapter 15 of acts, although there is evidence they were received prior to that. Remember when Jesus told his disciples that after his death there would arise false Christs? When they say lo, he is there in the desert or lo, he is there, go ye therefore not after them. Well, three days after his death Mary tells them that Christ has risen and to go meet him by the sea of Galilee. Did they head Jesus' warning? No. They went and met "him." There are so many lies. You know that part where Jesus says he has chosen the twelve and one is a devil? I bet you still think it was Judas. It was God's will that Jesus should suffer and die for our sins. Judas did God's will. Even at the last super Jesus tells him to do it quickly. Who then is the devil? Jesus calls Peter, Satan, when he murmurs against the sacrifice. Jesus also said, "Whosoever shall deny me amongst men, shall I also deny before my Father." Peter denies him three times amongst men. Peter must be denied by Jesus before his Father, because Jesus said so. Why deny Peter? Because Peter and Paul deceive the church in the book of Acts. The church was infiltrated from the beginning. You can hearken to the words of Peter and Paul and give them higher authority than God and still claim to follow Jesus Christ, but it is an abomination. The image of Christ taught by the Christian church is a stumbling block in the least. I pray that you listen to Jesus and his Father and do what they say instead of what you learned from a Christian Church.
 
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Gladstone

Guest
You'll find a couple instances where I posted that the apostles were "received," but it was meant to be "deceived."
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Who told you that?

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them,
[Concerning] the feasts of YHVH, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, [even] these [are] My feasts.
Leviticus 23:2 (KJV, MBM)

Depending on how you count, at least 8 feasts (appointed times) are specified in Leviticus 23.


The word of God informs us.It says time of reformation.Not times of reformations. How many times was the veil rent? How may times did Christ say it is finished.

The 8 appointed times were the ones being reformed. God was no longer using the fleshly ordinances as types and shadows that pointed the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that followed .Called the refomation.

The beforehand had become the now it is finished. Christians look back to that refomation they looked ahead .Christ has come .The outward un-believing Jew who thinks salvation is a Jewish religion is still waiting.

1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the "Spirit of Christ" which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

What do the words “stood only” mean in the portion of scripture below? Only what? How long?

What is the whole chapter 9 of Hebrews teaching us?

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure(parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which “stood only” in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinance”, imposed on them
until of the "time"of reformation. Heb 9:8

 
Jul 1, 2016
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The word of God informs us.It says time of reformation.Not times of reformations. How many times was the veil rent? How may times did Christ say it is finished.

The 8 appointed times were the ones being reformed. God was no longer using the fleshly ordinances as types and shadows that pointed the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that followed .Called the refomation.

The beforehand had become the now it is finished. Christians look back to that refomation they looked ahead .Christ has come .The outward un-believing Jew who thinks salvation is a Jewish religion is still waiting.

1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the "Spirit of Christ" which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

What do the words “stood only” mean in the portion of scripture below? Only what? How long?

What is the whole chapter 9 of Hebrews teaching us?

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure(parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which “stood only” in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinance”, imposed on them
until of the "time"of reformation. Heb 9:8

again, if your are calling the appointed times of God "fleshly ordinances", you are out of your mind.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
In the Old Testament God says that his commandments are everlasting and that his ordinances are a perpetual covenant, always and for ever.
"What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise."

Jesus said that the law would not pass before heaven and earth
And Jesus did exactly what he said he would, He fulfilled the law by meeting its righteous requirements and that on our behalf.

It doesn't matter if Paul or the Pope or any man says that the law is finished.
Wouldn't trust in anything that the pope has to say, as he is the head of the woman who rides the beast. But as far as Paul is concerned, everything that he wrote was God-breathed, inspired by the Holy Spirit. Peter referred to Paul's letters as wisdom from God and as scripture.

You'll find in Acts chapter 15, where they argue that some are teaching that Gentiles need to be circumcised, and they stated that they gave no such commandment. You bet they didn't, but God did in Exodus 12:48
In Acts 15 the claim went out by those who belonged to the group of Pharisees who were claiming that the Gentile believers must be circumcised and made to obey the law of Moses. The answer was NO! For Peter--who was not deceived--said that regarding the Gentiles, God purified their hearts by faith. While Peter was still speaking the Holy Spirit fell upon the household of Cornelius so that they spoke in languages and prophesied and that by faith, without the works of the law, without being baptized, but by faith alone.

Remember where Jesus warned that if it were possible even the very elect would be deceived?
The above verse is in regards to being deceived by false prophets and false Messiah's, namely, thee false prophet and the antichrist and that because of the miraculous signs that they would be performing in the last days. You have taken this out of context, as I assure you that neither Peter nor the counsel were deceived. But they were right in saying that we are not under the law to be circumcised and abide in the law.

"God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

The yoke that neither our ancestors had been able to bear that Peter speaks of, is the burden of the law of Moses.

You know that part where Jesus says he has chosen the twelve and one is a devil? I bet you still think it was Judas.
Judas was indeed the one whom Jesus referred to as "one of you is a devil." It was not Peter, but the one who betrayed him. The one that is written of in the scriptures which says, "Even my own friend has lifted up his heel against me."

I pray that you listen to Jesus and his Father and do what they say instead of what you learned from a Christian Church.
And we would all pray and hope that you would not trust in the keeping of the law as a means of salvation. For anyone who trusts in the law to find favor with God will not inherit the kingdom of God. Our salvation is obtained by believing in the One who provided it by the shedding of his blood, Jesus Christ or for disciplemike's sake, Yeshua Hamashiach.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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In the Old Testament God says that his commandments are everlasting and that his ordinances are a perpetual covenant, always and for ever. Jesus said that the law would not pass before heaven and earth. All things haven't been fulfilled because we still await his second coming and the eventual destruction of the earth. It doesn't matter if Paul or the Pope or any man says that the law is finished. God said to keep his commandments forever. You'll find in Acts chapter 15, where they argue that some are teaching that Gentiles need to be circumcised, and they stated that they gave no such commandment. You bet they didn't, but God did in Exodus 12:48.
Yes they did obey that temporal ceremonial law given in Exodus 12:48. Its implication as pointing ahead will last forever as a ceremonial law. It will always be a shadow that pointed ahead to our suffering bloody savor or as today it points back to the time of reformation.

Circumcision represented the suffering of Christ beforehand in respect to our bloody husband when he said it was finished , the veil was rent. Those shadows of that ceremonial law were no longer needed to announce the gospel in advance .

It’s the purpose of all ceremonial laws, the golden thread of the gospel encouraging the faith of the believer to walk by faith, not by sight in respect to those kind of laws.

In Exodus using the apostle Moses we are informed of the spiritual meaning of circumcision(cut off flesh) in that parable. .

And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision. Exodus 4:25

It was the Son of man in regard to the flesh typified as sinful that was cut off from the land of the living when he said; it is finished, it was, the flesh returned to the dust it was taken from. The Spirit of Christ returned to the Father as to the glory there was from before the foundation of the world. .

Not in respect to the apostle Moses. Christ is not divided.
 
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TonyJay

Guest
Everyone who believes that Yeshua is the Messiah has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:1-3 (ESV2011, MBM)
How about the clearest command Jesus ever gave - the summary statement and thrust of His entire ministry on earth: the Great Commission.

So disciplemike how many people have brought to a personal knowledge of God?
How many people are born again as a result of your ministry?
What is your personal commitment to obeying the Great Commission?
 
G

Gladstone

Guest
How can you defend Peter when by Jesus' own words we know that he is denied before the Father?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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again, if your are calling the appointed times of God "fleshly ordinances", you are out of your mind.
Its what he call them its not an bout our mind but His. .

What do the words “stood only” mean in the portion of scripture below? Only what? How long?

And carnal ordinance does that mean fleshly ?


What is the whole chapter 9 of Hebrews teaching us?


The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure(parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which “stood only” in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinance”, imposed on them
until of the "time"of reformation. Heb 9:8

One more question. What is the spiritual understanding in regard to the parable; "drink the blood" of men as it pertains to Christ sacrifice mean.Is it a ceremonial law? Christ says if we do not drink it we have no spirit life that will last past this life.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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How can you defend Peter when by Jesus' own words we know that he is denied before the Father?
The faith we defend, Christ's, which defends us is not of Peter.But is God's faith that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure . Without it no man can come to the father.

Peter offended God when he rebuked the lord of glory trying to make the gospel to no effect.

That informs us I believe a good distinction between the things of God and those of men is needed if we are to please Him .
 
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jamesg1951

Guest
I'm not claiming being justified by the law. I claim that being circumcised is required to partake of the Passover and that keeping the law is a good way to show God that we love him and want to obey his voice.

I don't understand what Paul says at times and sometimes I don't believe it at all, because we don't have to. Paul was a man and a Pharisee of the tribe of Benjamin. Beware the leavening of the Pharisses. Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing. Benjamin is a ravening wolf. You know those who say they are apostles and are not. In Acts he is blinded, astonished, and his knowledge is said to have driven him mad, which are all curses from Deuteronomy 28:28. So, I'm more than a bit apprehensive when hearing Paul.
I find Pauls teachings to be quite in line with the teachings of Christ. In fact being a Roma he actually kept Jewish laws which he was NOT bound by just so Jews would not sin by breaking them. How Christlike is that?
 
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jamesg1951

Guest
The faith we defend, Christ's, which defends us is not of Peter.But is God's faith that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure . Without it no man can come to the father.

Peter offended God when he rebuked the lord of glory trying to make the gospel to no effect.

That informs us I believe a good distinction between the things of God and those of men is needed if we are to please Him .
Jesus called Peter Satan! For Peter desired the thigs of eart and not the things of God. How rich is the church that Peter founded now?
 
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TonyJay

Guest
I find Pauls teachings to be quite in line with the teachings of Christ. In fact being a Roma he actually kept Jewish laws which he was NOT bound by just so Jews would not sin by breaking them. How Christlike is that?
I think you have way to go yet in understanding things.
Paul may have been a Roman citizen but he was: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless (Php 3:5-6)

Paul was a Jew and a Pharisee and NOT a Gentile.
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
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The instruction was that Israel couldn't work on the Sabbath and neither could their servants.
So it's not really applicable today. I would agree for your reason stated and a few others. One reason it's not applicable because it was directed to and for ancient Israel.

In any case, Ex 20:20 and Deut 5 also state that resident foreigners, sons, daughters, or animals couldn't work on the Sabbath either. It seems pretty clear that neither the Israelite nor anyone connected to them were to be working on the Sabbath. If you were to somehow extend that law to someone today, then it would seem to reason that they shouldn't be using modern conveniences because it places a demand on someone to be at work, working for the Sabbatarian on the Sabbath. It seems to me to go against what the law demanded. I'm not sure how it could be more clear.
 
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jamesg1951

Guest
I think you have way to go yet in understanding things.
Paul may have been a Roman citizen but he was: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless (Php 3:5-6)

Paul was a Jew and a Pharisee and NOT a Gentile.
How much more does this give credence to his knowledge of the laws AND the grace of God. The perfect man to pick to interpret Gods words in their proper context. Jesus would not say about Paul Listen to him but do not do as he does like he did of the other Pharisees.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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How about the clearest command Jesus ever gave - the summary statement and thrust of His entire ministry on earth: the Great Commission.

So disciplemike how many people have brought to a personal knowledge of God?
How many people are born again as a result of your ministry?
What is your personal commitment to obeying the Great Commission?
remember, it is to "go and make disciples" (webster "adherence to doctrine),

NOT, go and ask people to repeat a "sinner's prayer", so i can put a notch in my Bible cover.
 
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TonyJay

Guest
remember, it is to "go and make disciples" (webster "adherence to doctrine),

NOT, go and ask people to repeat a "sinner's prayer", so i can put a notch in my Bible cover.
You have not answered the question.