Gift of Tongues: Contrary to Pentecost
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the obvious conclusions are totally missed - Jesus said to His simple Apostles ' go out into the whole world and not only that but teaching them all things whatsoever I have commanded you' - how were they going to do this if their audience did not understand what they were saying - notice that Thomas went to India and nothing had even been written down but had to be remembered and recalled in a foreign language and spoken in a foreign language - wincam
It is rather plainly put in the scriptures regarding tongues. I agree with you BenFTW (imagine that) 
Prayer tongues and public tongues are separated by the scripture.
We need to remember that the Holy Spirit will give utterance to tongues. There is nothing one practices to speak in tongues. Not everyone will have this gift, but if the Holy Spirit wants you to speak in tongues, He will give the utterance
If the tongues are in public such as a church, the Holy Spirit will also give one to interpret for the edification of the church. If there is no one present to interpret, we keep silent. This is God's order. Outside of God's order we are out of order.
What's there to argue about?
Prayer tongues and public tongues are separated by the scripture.
We need to remember that the Holy Spirit will give utterance to tongues. There is nothing one practices to speak in tongues. Not everyone will have this gift, but if the Holy Spirit wants you to speak in tongues, He will give the utterance
If the tongues are in public such as a church, the Holy Spirit will also give one to interpret for the edification of the church. If there is no one present to interpret, we keep silent. This is God's order. Outside of God's order we are out of order.
What's there to argue about?
It is rather plainly put in the scriptures regarding tongues. I agree with you BenFTW (imagine that)
Prayer tongues and public tongues are separated by the scripture.
We need to remember that the Holy Spirit will give utterance to tongues. There is nothing one practices to speak in tongues. Not everyone will have this gift, but if the Holy Spirit wants you to speak in tongues, He will give the utterance
If the tongues are in public such as a church, the Holy Spirit will also give one to interpret for the edification of the church. If there is no one present to interpret, we keep silent. This is God's order. Outside of God's order we are out of order.
What's there to argue about?
Prayer tongues and public tongues are separated by the scripture.
We need to remember that the Holy Spirit will give utterance to tongues. There is nothing one practices to speak in tongues. Not everyone will have this gift, but if the Holy Spirit wants you to speak in tongues, He will give the utterance
If the tongues are in public such as a church, the Holy Spirit will also give one to interpret for the edification of the church. If there is no one present to interpret, we keep silent. This is God's order. Outside of God's order we are out of order.
What's there to argue about?
If a person uses discernment and ends up denying and quenching the Holy Spirit, what good is their so called discernment?
I am not sure what you mean by provoking the gift. The gift is volitional, it isn't something that overtakes you. It can be activated at will. This is why the apostle Paul told people one, two, or three at most and then let a person interpret. It is because a person is in control of operating in the gift. It doesn't just break forth without one's will submitted to doing it. You begin and stop it.
I am not sure what you mean by provoking the gift. The gift is volitional, it isn't something that overtakes you. It can be activated at will. This is why the apostle Paul told people one, two, or three at most and then let a person interpret. It is because a person is in control of operating in the gift. It doesn't just break forth without one's will submitted to doing it. You begin and stop it.
Amen
The gift is prophecy. Tongues are a sign to those who believe not. They who seek after a signs are reckoned as having no, or little faith not of themselves. Christ's)
Christ refers to that as an evil generation indicating natural man, as a work of the flesh. It is part of every persons struggle even the apostles struggled with walking after the right manner of spirit, the spirit of the unseen, prophecy.
Not seen by experiences them “walking by sight”.
New prophecy has ceased along with all the many manners once used. I would think if we are to walk by faith (the unseen) our need for a personal experience to walk by sight, as some sort of sign and wonder would lessen or decrease as he strengthens us putting on His armor...
This would be sort of like as we are informed below which seems to indicate his faith that works in us, it must increase, as the faith we have in respect to our own selves must decrease. And that I believe God will do if it is his will.
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
The gift is prophecy. Tongues are a sign to those who believe not. They who seek after a signs are reckoned as having no, or little faith not of themselves. Christ's)
Christ refers to that as an evil generation indicating natural man, as a work of the flesh. It is part of every persons struggle even the apostles struggled with walking after the right manner of spirit, the spirit of the unseen, prophecy.
Not seen by experiences them “walking by sight”.
New prophecy has ceased along with all the many manners once used. I would think if we are to walk by faith (the unseen) our need for a personal experience to walk by sight, as some sort of sign and wonder would lessen or decrease as he strengthens us putting on His armor...
This would be sort of like as we are informed below which seems to indicate his faith that works in us, it must increase, as the faith we have in respect to our own selves must decrease. And that I believe God will do if it is his will.
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Hi Ben,
I remember you and I talking about this quite awhile back. Not sure if you remember but you asked me to pray for you about this. Anyways, just wanted to let you know I remember that before I share what happened to me.
As with many things, for years I struggled trying to understand tongues in particular. I had doubts but I wasn't doubting God, I was doubting his ability to bestow such a gift on me without understanding it. It wasn't until I got over myself (aka stopped leaning to my own understanding) and just decided to trust God on it. I just trusted that if such a gift was necessary at any time, God was more than able to perform it in me despite my ignorance. After that, I had multiple experiences. I will just share a couple in hopes that it will be uplifting to others.
Gift of tongues/interpretation
The Lord sent me to a household but did not tell me why. I spent time mostly just helping around the house but also ministering whenever the Lord instructed. I was still not sure why I was there though. Then one day the spirit of the Lord came on me strongly while I was caring for the 1 1/2 year old in the house. I began to speak to him in tongues. His eyes lit up and he looked at me and started babbling back to me. It continued for a short time before I was given the interpretation. When this happened, I switched to speaking in English. During the conversation I learned from the child that something was wrong with his mother. I asked for specifics but he nodded no and continued babbling. After my discussion, I knew that I was there because of her specifically. Later I found out that she had a couple of secrets. One... she was a drug addict and none of her friends or family suspected. Two... she had hepatitis. I told her that God was more than able to heal her of both. She had her doubts and did not want to talk about it. I told her that God would heal her of the hepatitis as and that if she then would trust in him and repent of her ways, God would free her from her addiction. She ended up not wanting me back to the house. She avoided me now that I knew about her drug addiction. Many months later she called me to tell me that the doctors were baffled cause she showed no signs of hepatitis. She soon after checked herself into rehab.
I never knew God would use the gift of tongues and interpretation in that way. No man had ever taught me that. It wasn't up to me and my understanding. It was God doing the work in a willing vessel. So I can only boast in knowing him, not in anything I have done.
Interpretation
A couple of years later a friend of mine and I decided to check out a Puerto Rican church in my area. I lived in a Latin neighborhood. The decision was really out of obedience on both of our parts. We went only to discover that the message was not in English. They asked if I would need an interpreter and my friend was a bit surprised when I said "no". She responded saying, "Well, I know a bit of Spanish. I can help him a bit if he needs it."
The message began and I just closed my eyes and spoke in tongues softly. Soon after, I was able to understand the context of a paragraph... and then a sentence... and then even specific words. I leaned over to my friend and whispered, "The preacher is talking about a woman that they knew that got healed of cancer, right?" She looked at me, grinned, and said, "Yes... is God interpreting for you?" I smiled and said "Yes". I turned back to the preacher who paused for a moment, looked at me, tilted her head as if she was listening to someone, then smiled at me and continues. It was a really cool experience.
God is awesome.
I remember you and I talking about this quite awhile back. Not sure if you remember but you asked me to pray for you about this. Anyways, just wanted to let you know I remember that before I share what happened to me.
As with many things, for years I struggled trying to understand tongues in particular. I had doubts but I wasn't doubting God, I was doubting his ability to bestow such a gift on me without understanding it. It wasn't until I got over myself (aka stopped leaning to my own understanding) and just decided to trust God on it. I just trusted that if such a gift was necessary at any time, God was more than able to perform it in me despite my ignorance. After that, I had multiple experiences. I will just share a couple in hopes that it will be uplifting to others.
Gift of tongues/interpretation
The Lord sent me to a household but did not tell me why. I spent time mostly just helping around the house but also ministering whenever the Lord instructed. I was still not sure why I was there though. Then one day the spirit of the Lord came on me strongly while I was caring for the 1 1/2 year old in the house. I began to speak to him in tongues. His eyes lit up and he looked at me and started babbling back to me. It continued for a short time before I was given the interpretation. When this happened, I switched to speaking in English. During the conversation I learned from the child that something was wrong with his mother. I asked for specifics but he nodded no and continued babbling. After my discussion, I knew that I was there because of her specifically. Later I found out that she had a couple of secrets. One... she was a drug addict and none of her friends or family suspected. Two... she had hepatitis. I told her that God was more than able to heal her of both. She had her doubts and did not want to talk about it. I told her that God would heal her of the hepatitis as and that if she then would trust in him and repent of her ways, God would free her from her addiction. She ended up not wanting me back to the house. She avoided me now that I knew about her drug addiction. Many months later she called me to tell me that the doctors were baffled cause she showed no signs of hepatitis. She soon after checked herself into rehab.
I never knew God would use the gift of tongues and interpretation in that way. No man had ever taught me that. It wasn't up to me and my understanding. It was God doing the work in a willing vessel. So I can only boast in knowing him, not in anything I have done.
Interpretation
A couple of years later a friend of mine and I decided to check out a Puerto Rican church in my area. I lived in a Latin neighborhood. The decision was really out of obedience on both of our parts. We went only to discover that the message was not in English. They asked if I would need an interpreter and my friend was a bit surprised when I said "no". She responded saying, "Well, I know a bit of Spanish. I can help him a bit if he needs it."
The message began and I just closed my eyes and spoke in tongues softly. Soon after, I was able to understand the context of a paragraph... and then a sentence... and then even specific words. I leaned over to my friend and whispered, "The preacher is talking about a woman that they knew that got healed of cancer, right?" She looked at me, grinned, and said, "Yes... is God interpreting for you?" I smiled and said "Yes". I turned back to the preacher who paused for a moment, looked at me, tilted her head as if she was listening to someone, then smiled at me and continues. It was a really cool experience.
God is awesome.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You make it evident what is in your heart.
I have said and continue to say that the Holy Spirit does not act contrary to the scriptures. I'm still waiting for the Pentecostals and or charismatics to show me that they believe that the primitive NT church spoke anything but languages extant at the time. Nothing in 1 Cor 14 leads to any other conclusion.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I have said and continue to say that the Holy Spirit does not act contrary to the scriptures. I'm still waiting for the Pentecostals and or charismatics to show me that they believe that the primitive NT church spoke anything but languages extant at the time. Nothing in 1 Cor 14 leads to any other conclusion.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
U
Well from what has been explained to me here at CC it seems there is deeper meaning because Paul decided to to use words like mysteries, and some hyperbole about the language of angels.
Just a plain reading of chapter 14 without adding all this other stuff since he never talks about ecstatic utterance shows he is just trying to correct and help the church at Corinth deal with the tongue issues they were having.
This lady prays in tongues at 6:01, very interesting, I will leave it a that.
[video=youtube;vsrwgd7rnR0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsrwgd7rnR0[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsrwgd7rnR0
Just a plain reading of chapter 14 without adding all this other stuff since he never talks about ecstatic utterance shows he is just trying to correct and help the church at Corinth deal with the tongue issues they were having.
This lady prays in tongues at 6:01, very interesting, I will leave it a that.
[video=youtube;vsrwgd7rnR0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsrwgd7rnR0[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsrwgd7rnR0
He does enable the words you speak, but it is you doing the speaking. It doesn't just happen, you start speaking and the Lord guides your speech. Anyone who speaks in tongues will tell you this, it comes from experience with the gift. First and foremost, its also in the word. Holy Spirit gives the utterance but since the apostle Paul told people to do it in order (which means they weren't) it means that we have control over the gift. The person speaking in tongues can begin and stop at will, this is biblical.
No, I don't realize it because it isn't there to be realized. I hope you can be open minded and see the following scripture clearly.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
The apostle Paul realized that he controlled this gift. He knew he could speak "ten thousand words in an unknown tongue" if he so wanted, but it wouldn't edify others. You see the Corinthians were using this gift out of order, right? How is it the Holy Spirit is the one that gives utterance but they were misusing the gift?
It is because the gift of tongues, speaking in tongues, is an act of our will, and the Holy Spirit gives utterance, or the words that we speak. You see if the gift is dependent upon the Holy Spirit activating it, then you are saying that the Holy Spirit was the author of confusion in Corinth.
Please also note, for the sake of dividing personal private use of this gift and public use read the apostle Paul's words carefully.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
He thanks the Lord that he speaks in tongues more than them all, but he says in the church (the public) he'd rather speak five words with his understanding than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. The point being, he makes a difference between his use of speaking in tongues (private) and the public use in the church.
I hope you can be open minded and see the following scripture clearly. 1 Corinthians 14:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
The apostle Paul realized that he controlled this gift. He knew he could speak "ten thousand words in an unknown tongue" if he so wanted, but it wouldn't edify others. You see the Corinthians were using this gift out of order, right? How is it the Holy Spirit is the one that gives utterance but they were misusing the gift?
It is because the gift of tongues, speaking in tongues, is an act of our will, and the Holy Spirit gives utterance, or the words that we speak. You see if the gift is dependent upon the Holy Spirit activating it, then you are saying that the Holy Spirit was the author of confusion in Corinth.
Please also note, for the sake of dividing personal private use of this gift and public use read the apostle Paul's words carefully.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
He thanks the Lord that he speaks in tongues more than them all, but he says in the church (the public) he'd rather speak five words with his understanding than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. The point being, he makes a difference between his use of speaking in tongues (private) and the public use in the church.