So what about the fourth commandment?
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Gandalf's point to ponder on this week-end I wonder how many times Jesus was scoffed for not keeping the law like the Jews or having to much grace?
Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves are we not doing the same...
Think of it this way, just as One man without sin paid the penalty for all sin, in the same way that same one man met the righteous requirements of the law on our behalf, satisfying God's requirement for His need for the fulfillment of the law. We are free in Christ! Because we are having faith in Christ, the Father sees us through him as perfect, no sin and the law fulfilled. This goes right along with believers being credited with righteousness. Whatever God sees in Christ, he sees in us, even though we are still sinners. When we put ourselves under the law to meet its requirements, we are not trusting in Christ, but in our own efforts to obtain righteousness.
The law is not in affect for believers, for we are under grace through faith. Jesus fulfilled the law, which was/is something that mankind was and is unable to keep. That is why I don't understand those those who trust in the law, because they fail at it. And if they tell me that they are keeping the law perfectly, then scripture says that they are liars. Even Paul said that he stopped trying to meet the righteous requirements of the law so that he might live for God. The Lord knows those who are trusting in Him for their salvation and those who are trusting in their own efforts. For the number of people that I have seen who promote and trust in the law, I can see that it is going to be a very big disappointment--to say the least-- when those who have put their trust in their own efforts are unable to enter into the kingdom of God. And that is exactly what is going to happen. Unfortunately, it appears that they will not find that out until it is too late.
There is no picking and choosing which law applies today...we know it is the 10 Commandments which are spiritual, eternal, holy, just and good, and all 10 come as 'one package, delivered personally by GOD Ex 20v1, Deut 5v22,
However, God does not today COMMAND strictly as He did in the OT, but sent His Son to give us a 'helping hand by the power of HIS Spirit. Though God has done away with the 'strict letter of the law we are expected now to obey IN LOVE.
However, God does not today COMMAND strictly as He did in the OT, but sent His Son to give us a 'helping hand by the power of HIS Spirit. Though God has done away with the 'strict letter of the law we are expected now to obey IN LOVE.
Just seeking clarification on what you are or are not saying.
You said above "The law is not in affect for believers" Now I read the law as God gave it which is "love". So when I read what you said I see this, (Love is not in affect for believers). Thus you infer from my reading that Grace and faith are anti love.
So I am now assuming, and correct me if I assume wrongly. That what you are speaking of is the letter of the law. On that I can agree. But the fact remains that that law is summed up as love. So for me at least the more pertinent question in relation to this OP, Is how does the 4th commandment connect or be summed up in love.
What does the 7th day Sabbath from creation have to do with love. As love is selfless and thus based in relationship, The question thus then should be first, how does the 7th day Sabbath of creation relate to a loving relationship between Us and God. Thus what does the Sabbath mean to God and how does that connect to us and what does it mean to us.
Then we can decide if that loving relationship in connection with the 7th day Sabbath is done away with or not.
You said above "The law is not in affect for believers" Now I read the law as God gave it which is "love". So when I read what you said I see this, (Love is not in affect for believers). Thus you infer from my reading that Grace and faith are anti love.
So I am now assuming, and correct me if I assume wrongly. That what you are speaking of is the letter of the law. On that I can agree. But the fact remains that that law is summed up as love. So for me at least the more pertinent question in relation to this OP, Is how does the 4th commandment connect or be summed up in love.
What does the 7th day Sabbath from creation have to do with love. As love is selfless and thus based in relationship, The question thus then should be first, how does the 7th day Sabbath of creation relate to a loving relationship between Us and God. Thus what does the Sabbath mean to God and how does that connect to us and what does it mean to us.
Then we can decide if that loving relationship in connection with the 7th day Sabbath is done away with or not.
I like how you have put this. I have a question for clarification on my part.
You said "expected now to obey in love".
Do you mean this love as a motivation or as a transforming power?
The reason I ask is that simply a motivation can still leave someone in works based religion. But if it is a love that is of God transforming us then I agree whole heartedly.
Thanks.
You said "expected now to obey in love".
Do you mean this love as a motivation or as a transforming power?
The reason I ask is that simply a motivation can still leave someone in works based religion. But if it is a love that is of God transforming us then I agree whole heartedly.
Thanks.
The laws contained in ordinances/works became obsolete, were abolished on the cross Eph 2v15, or Jesus died for nothing.
The law still in effect today are the Commandments given by GOD personally and are spiritual, eternal, holy, just and good....and transgressing these IS SIN. The laws given through Moses are finished and do not apply in the NT.
The law still in effect today are the Commandments given by GOD personally and are spiritual, eternal, holy, just and good....and transgressing these IS SIN. The laws given through Moses are finished and do not apply in the NT.
I would say BOTH. If we are not motivated we can not be transformed. God wants our participation...He leads, never pushes against our will. He may wait for us or carry us,weak and frail as we are, but He will not force us. We love Him because He first loved us showing much mercy and compassion. God is great !
You are right. It is the people who have to change - not the Commandments, there is nothing wrong with them...it's us ! In Heb 8v8 it says 'for finding fault with them....meaning people who had hearts of stone and could not keep or refused His Commands....in the NT God will make a new covenant with people who,s hearts have been softened with love and compassion - just as God Himself shows toward us !
We have to understand that grace is not a New Testament concept, just like the law was not only given to Moses and the Israelites. Abraham and Noah also kept the law, they knew it and life by it (they were not Jews).
Keeping the law does not save us but it teach us about the characteristics of God. It is the marriage proposal from God to His children. We see ourselves as his bride and He is the groom. It is up to us to determine if God would change His marriage proposal and lower His standards for us.
Keeping the law does not save us but it teach us about the characteristics of God. It is the marriage proposal from God to His children. We see ourselves as his bride and He is the groom. It is up to us to determine if God would change His marriage proposal and lower His standards for us.
I have not said "I'm trusting in my works" or "I'm trusting in my efforts". I agree we are under grace through faith, and that Jesus did fulfil the law perfectly, because i'm a sinner i need the perfect blood of Jesus to cover my sin.
You said "I don't understand those those who trust in the law, because they fail at it." I don't understand why people try to save themselves by keeping the law either, because it only takes one mistake to be a sinner and all have sinned. Do you understand how i can have faith in Jesus and also believe in keeping Law?
I keep the law because i love Jesus (not to be saved), and believe the transgression of the law is what separates me from Jesus (but Jesus heals, forgives, covers my sin by faith) today.
You said "I don't understand those those who trust in the law, because they fail at it." I don't understand why people try to save themselves by keeping the law either, because it only takes one mistake to be a sinner and all have sinned. Do you understand how i can have faith in Jesus and also believe in keeping Law?
I keep the law because i love Jesus (not to be saved), and believe the transgression of the law is what separates me from Jesus (but Jesus heals, forgives, covers my sin by faith) today.
After God finished all the work of creation, (it was very good), He wanted to give one more thing to us. The gift He gave wasn't gold or another animal or tree or food, God gave us the gift of time with Him, A day set aside to know our creator and Lord. Think about it, can you think of anything that is more valuable than time with God? That is love.