So what about the fourth commandment?

[beta]

Wrong. Read Matthew 5:17-19.

You saying we need to keep the WHOLE law as given to Israel in the OT ?
friend , we are thousands of years further on and have left behind the physical laws contained in ordinances/works Eph 2v15. We are now IN CHRIST and God's Sabbath and spiritual Era.
As long as people reject and refuse what is 'holy to God' they will never understand scripture. Sure they can read it - though they have eyes to see and ears to hear they will remain blind and deaf to God.

 

[Grace777x70]

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, AND a law, AND commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.


Do ya see the word AND? The law and the commandments are separate. Can you see that?

I see that they are the exact same thing.

Exodus 24:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now the LORD said to Moses, "Come up to Me on the mountain and remain there, and I will give you the stone tablets with the law and the commandment which I have written for their instruction."

God Himself wrote on the 2 tablets which is why He said " which I have written for their instruction".

 

[valiant]

I have not said "I'm trusting in my works" or "I'm trusting in my efforts". I agree we are under grace through faith, and that Jesus did fulfil the law perfectly, because i'm a sinner i need the perfect blood of Jesus to cover my sin.
You said "I don't understand those those who trust in the law, because they fail at it." I don't understand why people try to save themselves by keeping the law either, because it only takes one mistake to be a sinner and all have sinned. Do you understand how i can have faith in Jesus and also believe in keeping Law?
I keep the law because i love Jesus (not to be saved), and believe the transgression of the law is what separates me from Jesus (but Jesus heals, forgives, covers my sin by faith) today.

We seek to follow Jesus, we do not seek to 'keep the Law'. The Law may in general act as guide but to keep it before us as a Law and to seek to follow its detailed enactments is to become a slave to the Law. Rom 7.14 onwards shows the effect of that. We rather follow the principle of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which has made us free for the law of sin and death (Rom 8.2).

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

We seek to follow Jesus, we do not seek to 'keep the Law'. The Law may in general act as guide but to keep it before us as a Law and to seek to follow its detailed enactments is to become a slave to the Law. Rom 7.14 onwards shows the effect of that. We rather follow the principle of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which has made us free for the law of sin and death (Rom 8.2).

Yes sir. But Jesus kept the law and if you follow Him and His example..........

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

We seek to follow Jesus, we do not seek to 'keep the Law'. The Law may in general act as guide but to keep it before us as a Law and to seek to follow its detailed enactments is to become a slave to the Law. Rom 7.14 onwards shows the effect of that. We rather follow the principle of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which has made us free for the law of sin and death (Rom 8.2).

Yes sir. But Jesus kept the law and if you follow Him and His example..........

Jesus observed the whole law for us.

I do not follow His example, I follow His teaching.

In fact no one 'keeps the Law' today in its entirety.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

You saying we need to keep the WHOLE law as given to Israel in the OT ?
friend , we are thousands of years further on and have left behind the physical laws contained in ordinances/works Eph 2v15. We are now IN CHRIST and God's Sabbath and spiritual Era.
As long as people reject and refuse what is 'holy to God' they will never understand scripture. Sure they can read it - though they have eyes to see and ears to hear they will remain blind and deaf to God.

Yes we are to keep the whole law given to Israel. Just as Jesus teaches.

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus observed the whole law for us.

I do not follow His example, I follow His teaching.

In fact no one 'keeps the Law' today in its entirety.

Jesus kept the Jewish Law because He was born under it - to redeem those that were under it. He had to fulfill the whole Law for us because as you say - no moan can keep the Law but Jesus did for us. We are in Him now and benefit from His work and His life is what directs us now by the Holy Spirit within us - not following the Law.

Galatians 4:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

 

[TMS]

We seek to follow Jesus, we do not seek to 'keep the Law'. The Law may in general act as guide but to keep it before us as a Law and to seek to follow its detailed enactments is to become a slave to the Law. Rom 7.14 onwards shows the effect of that. We rather follow the principle of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which has made us free for the law of sin and death (Rom 8.2).

I see what you are saying but i just see Jesus as Love and the law as an expression of love.
Righteousness comes from faith in Christ alone. And following Jesus is to keep the law, but i can't do this without Him, i can't keep the law without the Spirit.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
If we walk after the Spirit we will fulfil the law. By the power of God, by me allowing Him to do good in me., His will.
Following Jesus and obeying Him go hand in hand with each other.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Yes we are to keep the whole law given to Israel. Just as Jesus teaches.

Well, when you accomplish the keeping of the law perfectly, which is what God would require, please let us know.

 

[Dan_473]

is it lawful to stone someone on the Sabbath?

 

[valiant]

Yes we are to keep the whole law given to Israel. Just as Jesus teaches.

so do you call for the death penalty on homosexuals? do you grant a release of debts after seven years? every third year do you bring your tithes and lay them up for the sojourner, fatherless and widows? Do you make tassels on the four corners of your outer garment? and so we could go on. The Law allowed no variation.

 

[TMS]

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

We can't establish our own righteousness, because we can't keep the law ourselves. Thankfully we have Jesus as our righteousness, the righteousness of God.
But does that say the law is not to be kept. Christ is our means of righteousness not the law. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[valiant]

I see what you are saying but i just see Jesus as Love and the law as an expression of love.

The detailed Law is not an expression of love. It leads to legalism, which is the opposite of love. Our efforts to keep the law will bog us down in Rom 7..

Righteousness comes from faith in Christ alone. And following Jesus is to keep the law,

Following Jesus is NOT to keep the Law. It is to go far beyond law. It is to see things from a whole new perspective.

but i can't do this without Him, i can't keep the law without the Spirit.

The law was a schooltutor to lead us to Christ, At that point it had done its job. We obey a Father, we do not 'observe the Law'.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

because Christ fulfils it for us (Rom 5.18-19)

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

There is no mention of 'keeping the Law' here.

If we walk after the Spirit we will fulfil the law.

We will NEVER fulfil the Law (Rom 1.18-3.20)

By the power of God, by me allowing Him to do good in me., His will.
Following Jesus and obeying Him go hand in hand with each other.

Obeying Jesus and 'keeping the Law' are two distinct activities,

 

[Ahwatukee]

Just seeking clarification on what you are or are not saying.

You said above "The law is not in affect for believers" Now I read the law as God gave it which is "love". So when I read what you said I see this, (Love is not in affect for believers). Thus you infer from my reading that Grace and faith are anti love.

So I am now assuming, and correct me if I assume wrongly. That what you are speaking of is the letter of the law. On that I can agree. But the fact remains that that law is summed up as love. So for me at least the more pertinent question in relation to this OP, Is how does the 4th commandment connect or be summed up in love.

What does the 7th day Sabbath from creation have to do with love. As love is selfless and thus based in relationship, The question thus then should be first, how does the 7th day Sabbath of creation relate to a loving relationship between Us and God. Thus what does the Sabbath mean to God and how does that connect to us and what does it mean to us.

Then we can decide if that loving relationship in connection with the 7th day Sabbath is done away with or not.

First of all, neither you nor anyone else can keep the law. Remember, anyone who is puts themselves under the law must keep the entire law. And when you break it in one place, you've broken the whole law. Therefore, if you are equating the keeping of the law with love for God, then you are failing. Jesus came in the flesh and did what mankind could not do, which is keep the law. Instead of trying to meet the righteous requirements of the law, we are to recognize Jesus as the One who fulfilled it perfectly and that on our behalf. If you are trying to keep the law, then you are not trusting in him as the one who fulfilled it. The power of sin is the law. It is also the ammunition that Satan used against those under the law and that because of our sinful nature. I have never in my Christian life have even thought of the law as attempting to keep it. I follow Christ and when when I sin, I confess it and according to scripture he forgives me and cleanses me of all unrighteousness. But because the spirit dwells in me, my desire is not to commit sin.

Jesus didn't come her to fulfill the law so that we could continue trying to keep something that we continue to fail at. He didn't come to perpetuate the law, but to fulfill and bring it to its end as completed. We are completely free in Christ. For those under the law, when they fail at it, it brings wrath.

"For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law--I stopped trying to meet all its requirements--so that I might live for God."

 

[simplifiedtruth]

so do you call for the death penalty on homosexuals? do you grant a release of debts after seven years? every third year do you bring your tithes and lay them up for the sojourner, fatherless and widows? Do you make tassels on the four corners of your outer garment? and so we could go on. The Law allowed no variation.

Yes I support it all! Righteous and just and good laws. To bad He's people are in captivity that prevents us from living like this. Fringes are no problem in the diaspora.

 

[TMS]

The detailed Law is not an expression of love. It leads to legalism, which is the opposite of love. Our efforts to keep the law will bog us down in Rom 7..



Following Jesus is NOT to keep the Law. It is to go far beyond law. It is to see things from a whole new perspective.




The law was a schooltutor to lead us to Christ, At that point it had done its job. We obey a Father, we do not 'observe the Law'.



because Christ fulfils it for us (Rom 5.18-19)



There is no mention of 'keeping the Law' here.



We will NEVER fulfil the Law (Rom 1.18-3.20)



Obeying Jesus and 'keeping the Law' are two distinct activities,

True, trying to keep the law can lead to legalism. We might be talking about two different laws, i'm talking about the 10 commandments written on our hearts by God.
Because it is an effort to LOVE, should i give up?
You said "Following Jesus is NOT to keep the Law. It is to go far beyond law." Love is far more than the law but the law is an expression of love.
The first 4 of the 10 can be summarised in Love the Lord with all your heart, and the next 6 Love your neighbour as yourself. If you love Jesus you will keep His commandments.
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Christ is perfect and i can do all things through Christ, all good thing come from Him (no glory to me), so if i surrender control to Jesus and let Him do His perfect will in me, i can live obediently.
Rom_13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

 

[TMS]

Jesus didn't come her to fulfill the law so that we could continue trying to keep something that we continue to fail at. He didn't come to perpetuate the law, but to fulfill and bring it to its end as completed. We are completely free in Christ. For those under the law, when they fail at it, it brings wrath.

"For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law--I stopped trying to meet all its requirements--so that I might live for God."

To obey the law because of your love for Christ and because His spirit is in you OR to try and earn salvation through works are two different things. I agree we are free in Christ, free to obey. free from sin and the penalty of sin.

 

[Dan_473]

Yes I support it all! Righteous and just and good laws. To bad He's people are in captivity that prevents us from living like this. Fringes are no problem in the diaspora.

if one is going to be a lawkeeper, then yes, be delighted in doing all of them.

70
Their unfeeling hearts are hard and stubborn.
But I take delight in your law.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+119:69-71&version=NIRV



27 “ ‘Suppose a man or woman gets messages from those who have died. Or suppose a man or woman talks to the spirits of the dead. Then you must put that man or woman to death. You must kill them by throwing stones at them. Anything that happens to them will be their own fault.’ ”

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+20&version=NIRV

 

[valiant]

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

This is the imputed righteousness of Christ,

We can't establish our own righteousness, because we can't keep the law ourselves. Thankfully we have Jesus as our righteousness, the righteousness of God.

correct,

But does that say the law is not to be kept. Christ is our means of righteousness not the law. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

we establish the law by accepting our guilt by the law. We then die to the law that we might live unto God (Rom 7.1-6).

 

[valiant]

To obey the law because of your love for Christ and because His spirit is in you OR to try and earn salvation through works are two different things. I agree we are free in Christ, free to obey. free from sin and the penalty of sin.

But we do not strive to obey the law. We are dead to the law.We are united with another (Rom 7.1-6).

Love may be the fulfilment of the law, but it is not so by striving to fulfil the law. Fulfilment of the law is a bye-product. Nor do we EVER fulfil the law while we are here on earth.