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[FONT="]. Rev. 6:17 says that by the time of the 6th Seal judgment God’s wrath has already begun, and Rev. 15:1 indicates that the bowl judgments will complete God’s wrath. The 7th bowl is poured out at the end of Rev. 16, before the 2nd Coming. And don’t forget, the Great Tribulation is the last half of Daniel’s 70th Week and is the time during which the Bowl judgments are poured out. So you you should learn that the Wrath of God covers just about all of Daniel’s 70th Week, whereas the Great Tribulation is just the last half.[/FONT]
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*If you do a word study on 1 Thes. 1:10, you’ll see it promises that Jesus will rescue the Church from both the time and the place of God’s wrath in a manner that requires our prior departure. If so, the church has to be gone before the seal judgments begin, and sure enough you can see the Church in heaven in Rev. 5 as the 24 elders, singing the song of the redeemed. No other group can fit the description given in Rev. 5:9-10.
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[FONT="]I’m convinced, by the way, that the Bible only teaches one rapture view, and the strictest literal interpretation reveals it’s what’s known as the pre-tribulation rapture, but should more accurately be called the pre-70th Week rapture. All other views require their proponents (like you) to re-define grace, re-invent the church, and re-interpret the Scriptures to support their position while claiming to read the Bible in the literal. You're really good at using verses out of context while throwing them all together in a hodgepodge of post-trib interpretation. satans having a good'ol time with you. [/FONT]
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*If you do a word study on 1 Thes. 1:10, you’ll see it promises that Jesus will rescue the Church from both the time and the place of God’s wrath in a manner that requires our prior departure. If so, the church has to be gone before the seal judgments begin, and sure enough you can see the Church in heaven in Rev. 5 as the 24 elders, singing the song of the redeemed. No other group can fit the description given in Rev. 5:9-10.
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[FONT="]I’m convinced, by the way, that the Bible only teaches one rapture view, and the strictest literal interpretation reveals it’s what’s known as the pre-tribulation rapture, but should more accurately be called the pre-70th Week rapture. All other views require their proponents (like you) to re-define grace, re-invent the church, and re-interpret the Scriptures to support their position while claiming to read the Bible in the literal. You're really good at using verses out of context while throwing them all together in a hodgepodge of post-trib interpretation. satans having a good'ol time with you. [/FONT]
According to John Hagee you Pre Tribbers have only two more days left on earth to convince the rest of us that what you believe is true and avoid being left behind. So when Antichrist arrives next Tuesday I will be on CC checking whether any of you are still posting things. If you are it will mean either you didnt make it or the prediction was wrong. Thing is if you dont post anything how will I know which conclusion is right? The more devious among you may go into hiding for a few weeks pretending to have been raptured. Also have you got rid of all your property yet? If not please send me a list of all the stuff you wont need. I would appreciate a nice holiday home in the US or anywhere else where one is going spare.
I wish that these people would stop trying to guess at dates. There is absolutely no way to figure out when the Lord is going to gather the church. The only way that we can know that it is getting close is because we are seeing the stage being set for events that are to take place after the church is gone. You'd think that after so many failures by their predecessors that they would learn from their errors, but unfortunately they don't. And I'm sure that Hagee will not be the last. The Lord's appearing to gather the church is still imminent and will take place when the church has been completed and when the Father says it's time.
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For sure as it can't happen until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled. The same verse in Romans that says that also says that GOD hides HIS Face from Israel. We read in Ezekiel 39:22-29* that GOD no longer hides HIS Face and HE pours out the HOLY SPIRIT onto Israel.
This can't happen until the Church is removed and no longer has the HOLY SPIRIT sealed in them, as now because at the Rapture our bodies are metamorphosed into the same type of body that JESUS has now. So we won't need the HOLY SPIRIT in us any longer so then GOD puts HIM onto Israel. Notice it does not say, "Into" but Önto" which is missed by most folks who read Ezekiel 39:29. And that difference is the way the HOLY SPIRIT is used in Israel. Most likely the 144,000 will be sealed as Rev says at this time. We have the Psalms 83 war to happen and conclude so that Israel can feel secure so Ezek 38 can happen. Just keep looking up.
This can't happen until the Church is removed and no longer has the HOLY SPIRIT sealed in them, as now because at the Rapture our bodies are metamorphosed into the same type of body that JESUS has now. So we won't need the HOLY SPIRIT in us any longer so then GOD puts HIM onto Israel. Notice it does not say, "Into" but Önto" which is missed by most folks who read Ezekiel 39:29. And that difference is the way the HOLY SPIRIT is used in Israel. Most likely the 144,000 will be sealed as Rev says at this time. We have the Psalms 83 war to happen and conclude so that Israel can feel secure so Ezek 38 can happen. Just keep looking up.
That's because these events on the 6th Seal is about the final day of this world, the day of Christ's coming:
Rev 6:14-17
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV
If you had read and studied all of God's Word like you are supposed to, you would have found other Scripture about those very events of the islands and mountains being moved out of their place, and the wicked seeking to hide themselves in the dens and the rocks of the mountains, and know that is "day of the Lord" timing, the final day of this world when Jesus judges this world.
But instead, you show your Biblical ignorance by not being aware of those above events, and it's because of your listening to doctrines of men instead.
Yeah, but Rev.15 is giving a future-forward look at things.
And on the 6th Vial, Jesus says this to His Church still on earth:
Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV
What's one of the play phrases the Pre-Trib Rapture churches are always throwing out to their congregations and looking for an 'amen'?
It's that idea that Jesus comes "as a thief in the night", and "be ready brother, Jesus can come at any moment, like a thief in the night!" Then they will try and link a Pre-trib Rapture with that "thief in the night" idea.
There is a huge PROBLEM with their thinking though:
Both Apostles Paul and Peter taught that "as a thief in the night" timing is the time of the "day of the Lord" which is the FINAL DAY of this world, and not a Pre-trib Rapture prior to the tribulation at all!
1 Thess 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
KJV
2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV
Peter even lets us know that "day of the Lord" event will burn the elements (man's works in the Greek) off this earth!
Oh, but I forgot again. Flip has been taught the lie that ONLY Paul's Epistles are relevant to Christ's Church! But how is it that Peter AGREES WITH PAUL ON THAT EVENT FOR THE END OF THIS WORLD?
Those who actually study... their Bible know why Peter and Paul both agree, it's because they both understood that "day of the Lord" event from the Old Testament prophets!!!
No such idea written in those Scriptures as a Pre-trib Rapture, period. You're dreaming.
1 Thess 1:10
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
KJV
As I've already shown in previous posts, Paul covered just WHICH 'wrath' he was speaking of to the Thessalonian Church. And it IS... about God's cup of wrath which is to be poured out upon the wicked, but ON THE LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD, on that "day of the Lord" timing from the OT prophets.
What Christ's Church is subject to during the great tribulation is... Satan's wrath:
Rev 12:11-12
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV
You know, our Heavenly Father can cause a man to speak words he may not necessarily desire to, even as He did so with Balaam back in the OT. With false prophets setting a date for the rapture of the Church, that's like God causing them to say such things so as to reveal themselves as false prophets to the public. It's a way for God to show He is GOD, and also a way to show His people who listen to Him His Truth.
And therein lies your error. The coming wrath of God is the same wrath that the OT prophets and the apostles prophesied of, which is yet future. The reason that you claim that it is only one day, the last day, is because it kills your position. The truth is that the coming wrath of God is given in detail in the book of Revelation and will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which will begin when that 1st seal is opened which is symbolic for the antichrist. Following the will be the rest of the seals, the trumpets and lastly the bowl judgments. These do not take place in one day, but throughout that last seven years. Also, you haven't proven anything. All that you have done is misapply scripture.
Incorrect! God's wrath runs concurrently with the beasts kingdom and his campaigns. Whatever Satan is doing during that time is apart of that last seven years which will fulfill the last seven of those seventy seven year periods that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem.
The above is in reference to the great tribulation saints who are introduced in Rev.7:9-17 and not the church. And you will never see GTS referred to as the Ekklesia anywhere in the narrative, but as Hagios/saints. Your error stems from two things:
1). Not discerning that there is a difference between the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to end the age.
2). Not understanding the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. For if you did, you would know and believe that God is not going to put his church through that coming wrath, which was already poured out upon Jesus.
In between now and the time that Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the wrath of God will take place. Jesus is the One who is breaking the seals, which leads into the trumpets, followed by the bowls and therefore, whatever takes place during that time, including the beasts kingdom, is all apart of God's wrath. Over that seven years it is meant to decimate the population of the earth and to dismantle all human government (Dan.2:31-45) leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.
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There is nothing false about the rapture. Mature Christians have nothing to fear or worry about. Besides the Antichrist won't come until after the church is gone. When say church I'm talking about Christians. When the Tribulation starts there will be some people who get left behind. These are the people who haven't been born again. Because God is merciful and fair he'll give those people one more chance to repent and get born again. If they don't repent then they're on their way to hell. Hebrews9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement. People better stop playing games with God. I'm not just talking about the hypocrites. I'm talking about the Christians who gossip on Facebook all day long and they don't have a clue on how to witness to unsaved people. Just like the people Jesus rebuked the Pharisees. It really sad but a lot of Christians today ain't nothing but modern day Pharisees. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees Matthew 15:6-9 Verse 6 Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Verses 7-9 "Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." If you claim to be a Christian then you will act like Jesus did. Even unsaved people know who is a real Christian and who is fake.As Christians we must walk in love and forgiveness. I know some Christians struggle with forgiveness but its necessary as a child of God to forgive those who hurt you. Once you learn how to forgive it makes easier to forgive others when they treat you bad. It hurts more when you brother or sister in the Lord treats you bad. It's happened to me plenty of times. I walk in love and forgiveness because that's the way real Christians are supposed to act. God is very pleased when we act like he did. After all God forgave you for all the wrong you've done. 1Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Preacha24-7
Both Jesus and Paul warns the Church that during the end times will come unsound doctrine. They foretold of the Big Pre-Trib Rapture Return Lie. Paul tells us specifically in 2 Thes 2 concerning the real return of Christ.
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, [SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition...
The Pre-trib rapture lie is the means by which many are deceived!! There will be a false Christ event or several of them as Jesus warns in Mat 24:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you beforehand.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
DO NOT BELIEVE IT AND DO NOT GO OUT when they say Christ has come!! This warning is not for some made up Tribulation "Left-Behind" Saint, it is actually for Pre-Trib Rapture believers. You are the deceived. As Christ then reminds us:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
When He comes it will be as a fast as a flash of lightening. He is coming slowly down in the "clouds" and hoovering around while believers slowly rise to meet Him in the air as the Tim LaHaye movies would have you think. Heck, even the "Left Behind" has been twisted and reversed. We Christians want to be the ones LEFT BEHIND. Those taken are the wicked as Christ continues, they go to the Body of the Beast, the dead carcass.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Pretribbers have twisted everything and are deceived and will be slaughtered when they go out for the False Christ thinking he has come to rapture them away. They have allowed their fantasies and desires to avoid the Test that is coming, cloud their judgment and alter God's Word. Sad. As Jesus says:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. “Take heed that no one deceives you.
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, [SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition...
The Pre-trib rapture lie is the means by which many are deceived!! There will be a false Christ event or several of them as Jesus warns in Mat 24:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you beforehand.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
DO NOT BELIEVE IT AND DO NOT GO OUT when they say Christ has come!! This warning is not for some made up Tribulation "Left-Behind" Saint, it is actually for Pre-Trib Rapture believers. You are the deceived. As Christ then reminds us:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
When He comes it will be as a fast as a flash of lightening. He is coming slowly down in the "clouds" and hoovering around while believers slowly rise to meet Him in the air as the Tim LaHaye movies would have you think. Heck, even the "Left Behind" has been twisted and reversed. We Christians want to be the ones LEFT BEHIND. Those taken are the wicked as Christ continues, they go to the Body of the Beast, the dead carcass.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Pretribbers have twisted everything and are deceived and will be slaughtered when they go out for the False Christ thinking he has come to rapture them away. They have allowed their fantasies and desires to avoid the Test that is coming, cloud their judgment and alter God's Word. Sad. As Jesus says:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. “Take heed that no one deceives you.
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PlainWord , I'll tell you one thing you never think of or recognize. If the Pre-Trib View is a lie, then it is one of the best, helpful, lie I've ever seen. With us thinking the LORD return to pick us up suddenly with no warning at any moment, makes me want to learn the entire Bible as quickly as I can and to then reach out to others who don't know the LORD and it helps to make my faith stronger by the study that I do.
And if it does occur the way you think, it still does not hurt my faith because no one knows when the Rapture is to happen so no one should have any disappointment because they never had a date to worry about. And who can tell what tribulation is normal that the Church has had for 2000 years and what tribulation is in the Time of Jacob's Trouble. How we gonna know that this tribulation we go through is in the tribulation?
You won't know anything until the anti-christ has appeared and then we only have 3.5 years to wait for the 2nd coming. And we never knew the past 3.5 years was the Tribulation because we've always had it happening. Your logic is foolhardy and make no common sense.
But hearing the KJV in Audio 6+ hours every day of my life has taught me the LORD will remove us from the Wrath to come. Sorry for you. 8/28/16
And if it does occur the way you think, it still does not hurt my faith because no one knows when the Rapture is to happen so no one should have any disappointment because they never had a date to worry about. And who can tell what tribulation is normal that the Church has had for 2000 years and what tribulation is in the Time of Jacob's Trouble. How we gonna know that this tribulation we go through is in the tribulation?
You won't know anything until the anti-christ has appeared and then we only have 3.5 years to wait for the 2nd coming. And we never knew the past 3.5 years was the Tribulation because we've always had it happening. Your logic is foolhardy and make no common sense.
But hearing the KJV in Audio 6+ hours every day of my life has taught me the LORD will remove us from the Wrath to come. Sorry for you. 8/28/16
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PlainWord , I'll tell you one thing you never think of or recognize. If the Pre-Trib View is a lie, then it is one of the best, helpful, lies I've ever seen. With us thinking the LORD will return to pick us up suddenly with no warning at any moment, makes me want to learn the entire Bible as quickly as I can and to then reach out to others who don't know the LORD and it helps to make my faith stronger by the study that I do.
And if it does occur the way you think, it still does not hurt my faith because no one knows when the Rapture is to happen so no one should have any disappointment because they never knew when it was to happen, so they had a date to worry about. And who can tell what tribulation is normal that the Church has had for 2000 years and what tribulation is in the Time of Jacob's Trouble. How we gonna know the difference between the tribulation we go now is not the tribulation of the tribulation time? Who's gonna tell us?
You won't know anything until the anti-christ has appeared to sign the treaty with Israel, and then we only have 3.5 years to wait for the 2nd coming. And we never knew the past 3.5 years was the Tribulation because we've always had it happening. Your logic is foolhardy and make no common sense.
But hearing the KJV in Audio 6+ hours every day of my life for over 38+ years has taught me the LORD will remove us from the Wrath to come on the whole world. . Sorry for you. 8/28/16
And if it does occur the way you think, it still does not hurt my faith because no one knows when the Rapture is to happen so no one should have any disappointment because they never knew when it was to happen, so they had a date to worry about. And who can tell what tribulation is normal that the Church has had for 2000 years and what tribulation is in the Time of Jacob's Trouble. How we gonna know the difference between the tribulation we go now is not the tribulation of the tribulation time? Who's gonna tell us?
You won't know anything until the anti-christ has appeared to sign the treaty with Israel, and then we only have 3.5 years to wait for the 2nd coming. And we never knew the past 3.5 years was the Tribulation because we've always had it happening. Your logic is foolhardy and make no common sense.
But hearing the KJV in Audio 6+ hours every day of my life for over 38+ years has taught me the LORD will remove us from the Wrath to come on the whole world. . Sorry for you. 8/28/16
Because God rebukes the fly away theory in Ezekiel 13, that reveals just how much of a deceptive doctrine it would be in the last days.
God's Word 'as written' is what should make your faith stronger, not a doctrine of men like the pre-trib rapture theory. The proper way to study God's Word is to allow It to interpret Itself, thus allowing God Himself to speak. But what you've been wrongly taught to do is first trust in a doctrine men devised, and then go look in God's Word for proof of it. And then that kind of operates upon your mind like how blind love does.