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Many of these places/denominations are actually adding to the law or creating new laws, like a woman cannot wear denim etc., etc., that are not found in the new testament.
So while they have discarded some of the old testament laws they have actually added to the list too.
Having said that there are many directives of how we are to live on this earth and even how churches are to operate that come forward in the New Testament, while these are not for salvation they provide a standard or guideline.
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
2“Honoryourfatherandmother”(whichisthe firstcommandmentwitha promise
3“that it may go well with you and that you may be long-lived on the earth.”
Ephesians 6:2
So those who preach there is no law only the guidance of the Holy Spirit on the heart how does this fit in, since it is one of the ten commandments restated in the new covenant?
These words are after all in print although not in stone.
So while they have discarded some of the old testament laws they have actually added to the list too.
Having said that there are many directives of how we are to live on this earth and even how churches are to operate that come forward in the New Testament, while these are not for salvation they provide a standard or guideline.
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
2“Honoryourfatherandmother”(whichisthe firstcommandmentwitha promise
3“that it may go well with you and that you may be long-lived on the earth.”
Ephesians 6:2
So those who preach there is no law only the guidance of the Holy Spirit on the heart how does this fit in, since it is one of the ten commandments restated in the new covenant?
These words are after all in print although not in stone.
J
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? By no means! 16Do you not knowthat when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slavesto sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?
Can someone explain this verse?
17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed.…
That isn't helpful. I have no clue what you are conveying.
'
In the operation of the church - There is a need for church discipline in order for there not to be any "leaven" in with us but that is to do with our vertical relationships with each other in the body of Christ on the earth.
The Holy Spirit would bear witness with us that certain behaviors are not profitable. Paul said that all things are lawful but not all things are profitable. 1 Cor 6:12; 1 Cor. 10:23
We can learn that things are good to do from the Old Testament but they are not for righteousness or for salvation - these only come from Christ Himself. The life of Christ in us will stop us from dis-honoring others in the Lord including parents when we are children.
Many of the imperatives in the New Covenant are really showing what the life in Christ looks like when it is manifested outwardly in our behavior. We are transformed by the Holy Spirit as we behold Christ as in a mirror. 2 Cor 3:7-18
Honoring each other is part of the manifestation of the kingdom of God that is within us in Christ.
Romans 12:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;
In the operation of the church - There is a need for church discipline in order for there not to be any "leaven" in with us but that is to do with our vertical relationships with each other in the body of Christ on the earth.
The Holy Spirit would bear witness with us that certain behaviors are not profitable. Paul said that all things are lawful but not all things are profitable. 1 Cor 6:12; 1 Cor. 10:23
We can learn that things are good to do from the Old Testament but they are not for righteousness or for salvation - these only come from Christ Himself. The life of Christ in us will stop us from dis-honoring others in the Lord including parents when we are children.
Many of the imperatives in the New Covenant are really showing what the life in Christ looks like when it is manifested outwardly in our behavior. We are transformed by the Holy Spirit as we behold Christ as in a mirror. 2 Cor 3:7-18
Honoring each other is part of the manifestation of the kingdom of God that is within us in Christ.
Romans 12:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
I'm pretty sure it is you that is trying to make the Lord into a liar.
Not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the law UNTIL ALL BE FULFILLED.
But you, and the rest of your group, say that some of the law is done away with, some jots and tittles have passed from the law, but we definitely need to work at the other parts that remain.
This is something you need to reconcile. You are following a lie, and I think you know it.
But if all is fulfilled and those who come to Christ are not under Law but under Grace, it all starts to make sense.
I'm pretty sure it is you that is trying to make the Lord into a liar.
Not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the law UNTIL ALL BE FULFILLED.
But you, and the rest of your group, say that some of the law is done away with, some jots and tittles have passed from the law, but we definitely need to work at the other parts that remain.
This is something you need to reconcile. You are following a lie, and I think you know it.
But if all is fulfilled and those who come to Christ are not under Law but under Grace, it all starts to make sense.
You keep saying that, over and over. I never said I'm justified by the law.
I never said I'm justified by the law.
I never said I'm justified by the law.
That is your defense mechanism. If you didn't say it then it must not be true.
Except for the fact that the verse I posted doesn't mention being justified by the law. And the fact that I never mentioned being justified by the law. I just keep saying that you are incorrect in continually bringing it up.
Weird. But not really. Have you ever seen how sensitive liars are when you call them liars? Oh man. They flip their lid. You are supposed to believe their every word, no matter what the evidence is.
I never said I'm justified by the law.
I never said I'm justified by the law.
That is your defense mechanism. If you didn't say it then it must not be true.
Except for the fact that the verse I posted doesn't mention being justified by the law. And the fact that I never mentioned being justified by the law. I just keep saying that you are incorrect in continually bringing it up.
Weird. But not really. Have you ever seen how sensitive liars are when you call them liars? Oh man. They flip their lid. You are supposed to believe their every word, no matter what the evidence is.
Some commandments only apply to women. (men CANNOT observe these)
Some commandments only apply to Levitical Priests. (a guy in New Jersey is probably not an active ordained Levitical Priest)
Some commandments only apply to the Temple Service. (If there is no functioning Temple, you CANNOT observe these)
Some commandments only apply to the High Priest. (No one else could observe these but the High Priest)
Some commandments only apply as to sacrifices for sin. (Not even needed for a believer who follows Messiah. He is the final sacrifice for sin)
So, we can see that not all commandments apply to every person.
Does that mean we throw out all of the righteous commandments, including the ones we don't fully understand?
God forbid.
Some commandments only apply to Levitical Priests. (a guy in New Jersey is probably not an active ordained Levitical Priest)
Some commandments only apply to the Temple Service. (If there is no functioning Temple, you CANNOT observe these)
Some commandments only apply to the High Priest. (No one else could observe these but the High Priest)
Some commandments only apply as to sacrifices for sin. (Not even needed for a believer who follows Messiah. He is the final sacrifice for sin)
So, we can see that not all commandments apply to every person.
Does that mean we throw out all of the righteous commandments, including the ones we don't fully understand?
God forbid.
And yet - you throw out Christ constantly because you refuse to believe in what He has already done for the believer in Christ and instead try to get real believers to desert Christ for going back to the Law. Gal. 1:6
Why don't you trust in Christ? Why don't you trust in the Holy Spirit who is inside of you - if you are a Christian?
We are dead to the Law SO THAT we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself. His life in us is how we live now - NOT by the Law.
We don't need to "obey" Lev. 18:23 to stop having sex with animals. We can trust the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus to stop that from happening.
Why are you constantly trying to get believers to desert Christ for the Law? Gal. 1:6
This is the reason you get so much flack in CC. This is a Christ-based forum.
Real Christians should be going on the Jewish forums to tell them their Messiah has already come. Instead you come here to try to get believers to desert their Lord for going back to the Law.
Paul calls these people Judaizers and he has some very harsh words for those that come in to pervert the gospel of the grace of Christ as you are doing.
Paul also said that he didn't allow this perversion of the gospel to happen for even one hour so that the truth of the gospel would remain in the saints in Galatia.
The saint have been adequately warned about this religion from many of us here in CC.
No one here is going to fall for your anti-Christ religion here.
Come to Christ disciplemike. Trust in His finished work. He has fulfilled the Law.
[h=3]What parts of Torah can we still keep today?
Any part that supersedes the Spirit of Jesus Christ.[/h]
Any part that supersedes the Spirit of Jesus Christ.[/h]
OK, I see where you're coming from now. You never made the accusation that I think I'm justified by the Law. You were bringing in a different point about being justified. You never made that accusation of me, so I apologize for saying you did. Please forgive me.
So to be clear then, do you think I claim to be perfected by the Law?
So to be clear then, do you think I claim to be perfected by the Law?
its truly sad that other believers can actually say of others that because the choose to obey the will of the Creator of the Universe they are in error or deny the Savior.... these judgments are neither righteous or accurate, the text in scriptures that say "there is no condemnation for those in Messiah" those who quote this in condemnation of obedient believers are doing the very thing themselves they claim doesn't exist......
xtians? Your contempt for Christ by not even putting His name on believers is unbelievable. No wonder people that know Christ are rejecting your religion as it is most definitely anti-Christ.
Remember Paul said in the last days people would be anti-Christ. NOT anti-God. Your religion is anti-Christ but has the "appearance " of being for God but in reality you are constantly rejecting the Father's Son. Law-keepers for life and living are all for the Old Covenant but in truth reject the New Covenant which is based on God's Son only.
You should be going to Jewish forums telling them about their Messiah has already come for them - instead you are on a Christian form trying to get believer to desert Christ for going back to the Law. Gal 1:6
Just as Paul said that he wouldn't stand for even one hour for the Judaizers that were trying to get them to go back to the Law - believers here too will stand against your religion.
As I say - the saints have been warned about this anti-Christ religion that you are espousing. We are NOT going to commit spiritual adultery on our Lord by going back to the Law for life and living. Romans 7:1-6
Remember Paul said in the last days people would be anti-Christ. NOT anti-God. Your religion is anti-Christ but has the "appearance " of being for God but in reality you are constantly rejecting the Father's Son. Law-keepers for life and living are all for the Old Covenant but in truth reject the New Covenant which is based on God's Son only.
You should be going to Jewish forums telling them about their Messiah has already come for them - instead you are on a Christian form trying to get believer to desert Christ for going back to the Law. Gal 1:6
Just as Paul said that he wouldn't stand for even one hour for the Judaizers that were trying to get them to go back to the Law - believers here too will stand against your religion.
As I say - the saints have been warned about this anti-Christ religion that you are espousing. We are NOT going to commit spiritual adultery on our Lord by going back to the Law for life and living. Romans 7:1-6
J
I don't understand how Jesus fulfilled all the law. There are 7 Feast Days, 4 in Spring, which He filled, and 3 in Fall, which is still to come.
Also, We are dead to the Law SO THAT we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself.
Deuteronomy 24:1When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. 3And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; 4Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that isabomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee foran inheritance.
Jeremiah 3:6The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.7And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. 10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Hebrews 8:For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old isready to vanish away.
I know I'm barking up the wrong tree and this is falling on deaf ears, but this is how I see Jesus in the OT, GOD DIVORCED HOUSE OF ISRAEL, HIS LAW (Deuteronomy 24:1-4) prevented Him taking them back, thus God had to die so we could be married to His Son Jesus. ' we ,are grafted back into Israel the good olive tree, and are now in the New Covenant, because we died to our old self, baptised to represent that death, then raised back up in a new life in Christ. We are now free from the law of divorce and remarriage so that we are now the bride of Christ and we anxiously await the Fall Feasts for His return for His Bride.
The book of Hosea is the allegory story of God's marriage to an adulterous wife and how he calls those once NOT HIS PEOPLE, but through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, we are now His people. Jesus is Immanuel, God with us.
It is an awesome God we serve and in return show Him our love by being prepared for His dates,His Feasts, His commandments that tell us how to love God 1st 4 of the ten, and with the horizontal relationship we are equipped for the vertical relationships on how to love our neighbors.
Oh, am I making sense, does any sheep hear the call? Come home to the Father through the awesome power of Christ. The only way back is to accept the first coming of Christ. It's all about the Gospel of the Kingdom that Christ preached. Look at Paul's letters and see this MYSTERY as Paul teaches. Paul is not against the Father's laws, he is against man made laws that are too heavy.
Also, We are dead to the Law SO THAT we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself.
Deuteronomy 24:1When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. 3And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; 4Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that isabomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee foran inheritance.
Jeremiah 3:6The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.7And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. 10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Hebrews 8:For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old isready to vanish away.
I know I'm barking up the wrong tree and this is falling on deaf ears, but this is how I see Jesus in the OT, GOD DIVORCED HOUSE OF ISRAEL, HIS LAW (Deuteronomy 24:1-4) prevented Him taking them back, thus God had to die so we could be married to His Son Jesus. ' we ,are grafted back into Israel the good olive tree, and are now in the New Covenant, because we died to our old self, baptised to represent that death, then raised back up in a new life in Christ. We are now free from the law of divorce and remarriage so that we are now the bride of Christ and we anxiously await the Fall Feasts for His return for His Bride.
The book of Hosea is the allegory story of God's marriage to an adulterous wife and how he calls those once NOT HIS PEOPLE, but through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, we are now His people. Jesus is Immanuel, God with us.
It is an awesome God we serve and in return show Him our love by being prepared for His dates,His Feasts, His commandments that tell us how to love God 1st 4 of the ten, and with the horizontal relationship we are equipped for the vertical relationships on how to love our neighbors.
Oh, am I making sense, does any sheep hear the call? Come home to the Father through the awesome power of Christ. The only way back is to accept the first coming of Christ. It's all about the Gospel of the Kingdom that Christ preached. Look at Paul's letters and see this MYSTERY as Paul teaches. Paul is not against the Father's laws, he is against man made laws that are too heavy.
Your continual contempt of Christ is very telling and is probably why your need to try to get people to go back to the Law and desert the Lord Jesus Christ.
It does mean "anointing". - just like Jesus means "the Lord saves" or "the Lord is salvation"
And it is used for His name too.
John 7:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is.
1 Corinthians 6:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
Ephesians 3:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
It does mean "anointing". - just like Jesus means "the Lord saves" or "the Lord is salvation"
And it is used for His name too.
John 7:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is.
1 Corinthians 6:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
Ephesians 3:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.