What parts of Torah can we still keep today?

[Grace777x70]

yes ma'am. the real gospel.
you will have no peace without law.

You see..it's statements like this that reveal your anti-Christ religion. Jesus is our peace NOT the law.

Why don't you go on Jewish websites and tell them about their Messiah if you are a real Christian? Instead you come here to a Christ-based forum and try to get people to desert Christ by going back to the Law ( Gal.1:6 ).

We are not going to do it - we are NOT going to commit spiritual adultery on our Lord Jesus Christ for your religion. Romans 7:1-6

 

[FreeNChrist]

wrong. you see why people change Scripture?
you left out a very important word that completely reverses the quote.
He didn't abolish the law. He abolished the enmity.

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
Ephesians 2:15 (KJV, MBM)

King Jimmie is still causing so much confusion for folks. Here's an even more simple way of saying it,

"He did this by ending the system of Law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in Himself one new people from the two groups." NLT

It's not the Law that causes peace between the two as you assert, its being set free from the Law that causes peace.

 

[disciplemike]

King Jimmie is still causing so much confusion for folks. Here's an even more simple way of saying it,

"He did this by ending the system of Law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in Himself one new people from the two groups." NLT

It's not the Law that causes peace between the two as you assert, its being set free from the Law that causes peace.

you are out of your mind.
peace without law? try Chicago at midnight.

besides, you are making your jesus out to be a liar.
he said he came not to destroy the law, but later destroyed the law.
my Savior is not a liar.

 

[FreeNChrist]

you are out of your mind.
peace without law? try Chicago at midnight.

besides, you are making your jesus out to be a liar.
he said he came not to destroy the law, but later destroyed the law.
my Savior is not a liar.

I am not making anything, I am simply quoting Scripture. It seems it is you who is making MY Savior, who is Jesus the Messiah, out to be a liar.

 

[disciplemike]

You see..it's statements like this that reveal your anti-Christ religion. Jesus is our peace NOT the law.

without law is chaos.
don't be silly.

 

[disciplemike]

I am not making anything, I am simply quoting Scripture. It seems it is you who is making MY Savior, who is Jesus the Messiah, out to be a liar.

well not you personally, sorry.
That particular translation makes your jesus out to be a liar.
come on. get real. You really think he would destroy his father's commandments?
not a chance.

 

[FreeNChrist]

without law is chaos.
don't be silly.

Why are you trying to change the conversation to societal law?

 

[FreeNChrist]

well not you personally, sorry.
That particular translation makes your jesus out to be a liar.
come on. get real. You really think he would destroy his father's commandments?
not a chance.

MY Jesus came to set captives free, for good. Not to set them free and then place them right back under bondage.

 

[Grace777x70]

without law is chaos.
don't be silly.

We do have laws in the New Covenant of grace in the gospel of Christ and we love them! You keep exchanging Christ for the Law - this is why you are promoting an anti-Christ religion.

Jesus fulfilled the law - He did not destroy it. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.

Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live by:

1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

2)The law of love

3) The law of faith

4) The law of liberty

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ in us.

We can trust the Holy Spirit in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the beggarly elements that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.. Jesus is more then enough.

Going back to live by the law instead of the life of Christ on the inside of us - is like getting married and instead of spending time with your wife - you are in another room reading her old letters that she sent to you to bring you to herself.

You can't live now by "her letters" to you that were meant to lead you to her - you are supposed to live by her being with you now.

 

[jcha]

We do have laws in the New Covenant of grace in the gospel of Christ and we love them! You keep exchanging Christ for the Law - this is why you are promoting an anti-Christ religion.

Jesus fulfilled the law - He did not destroy it. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.

Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live by:

1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

2)The law of love

3) The law of faith

4) The law of liberty

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ in us.

We can trust the Holy Spirit in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the beggarly elements that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.. Jesus is more then enough.

Going back to live by the law instead of the life of Christ on the inside of us - is like getting married and instead of spending time with your wife - you are in another room reading her old letters that she sent to you to bring you to herself.

You can't live now by "her letters" to you that were meant to lead you to her - you are supposed to live by her being with you now.

So, let's see if I understand your reasoning. Christ is now called the Sabbath and if you have invited Christ into your heart, you can't follow God's commandments because Christ in your heart is satisfying all of God's requirements for you.

The problem was not the commandments, it was with people who are stiffened and hard hearted. A new heart is needed and because Christ makes His home in your heart, you would be cheating on Christ if you loved God by keeping the Torah.

Is that what you are conveying?

 

[PeterJens]

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Rom 6:18

in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:4

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2 Cor 3:3

We obey the law through the Spirit, but we are not lawless.
We are not tied to the written law, but to the Spirit that rules our hearts.

As believers we should rejoice when people walk by the Spirit in righteousness.
If they follow celebrations, ceremonies amen, if not, amen.

Once you start using the terms "anti-christian" you are causing division.

Which is so strange from someone who claims to want unity, so perhaps
miss-representing their intentions is part of their gospel.

 

[hornetguy]

you are out of your mind.
peace without law? try Chicago at midnight.

besides, you are making your jesus out to be a liar.
he said he came not to destroy the law, but later destroyed the law.
my Savior is not a liar.

Sorry, but you just refuted your own argument.... Chicago HAS law, perhaps the strictest gun laws in our nation, and as you pointed out, mayhem still occurs on a nightly basis..

Laws are NOT the answer. A renewing of the mind is the only way to true peace.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

We do have laws in the New Covenant of grace in the gospel of Christ and we love them! You keep exchanging Christ for the Law - this is why you are promoting an anti-Christ religion.

Jesus fulfilled the law - He did not destroy it. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.

Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live by:

1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

2)The law of love

3) The law of faith

4) The law of liberty

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ in us.

We can trust the Holy Spirit in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the beggarly elements that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.. Jesus is more then enough.

Going back to live by the law instead of the life of Christ on the inside of us - is like getting married and instead of spending time with your wife - you are in another room reading her old letters that she sent to you to bring you to herself.

You can't live now by "her letters" to you that were meant to lead you to her - you are supposed to live by her being with you now.

So, let's see if I understand your reasoning. Christ is now called the Sabbath and if you have invited Christ into your heart, you can't follow God's commandments because Christ in your heart is satisfying all of God's requirements for you.

The problem was not the commandments, it was with people who are stiffened and hard hearted. A new heart is needed and because Christ makes His home in your heart, you would be cheating on Christ if you loved God by keeping the Torah.

Is that what you are conveying?

We do follow God's commandments in the New Covenant and we love those commandments that are in Christ now.

The Law is not for the believer in Christ. We can trust His life in us to life now as my previous post shows the "laws" true Christians live by now. It is NOT the Law of Moses.

We don't need to obey "Lev. 18:23" to not have sex with animals...the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus will take care of that. We can trust the Holy Spirit in us to led us now as children of God.

Paul didn't say all those that are led by the Law are the children of God - He said all those that are led by the Spirit of God are the children. Romans 8:14

Here are the commandments in 1 John 3:23 that we keep in the New Covenant and they are from our Father.

The true believer is dead to the law because they are in Christ now - we died with Christ on the cross and rose in His resurrection to newness of life where we are living by the Spirit of God now.

We have died to the Law SO THAT we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

 

[disciplemike]

Sorry, but you just refuted your own argument.... Chicago HAS law, perhaps the strictest gun laws in our nation, and as you pointed out, mayhem still occurs on a nightly basis..

Laws are NOT the answer. A renewing of the mind is the only way to true peace.

well of course it is a renewing of the mind.

and you made my point. Chicago has laws in place, but the people are breaking the laws.
They don't have the renewed mind that would make them want to obey God or the police.
the renewed mind brings obedience. This doesn't take anything away from Messiah.

 

[FreeNChrist]

well of course it is a renewing of the mind.

and you made my point. Chicago has laws in place, but the people are breaking the laws.
They don't have the renewed mind that would make them want to obey God or the police.
the renewed mind brings obedience. This doesn't take anything away from Messiah.

No you have made our point. Law never stopped anyone from sinning. We have thousands of years of recorded history as a testament to that truth.

Still the question remains. Why would an all powerful God allow the temple to be destroyed if He wanted the old to continue on?

 

[Grace777x70]

One of the main purposes of the Law was so transgressions would increase. ( Rom. 5:20 ) This was to show that we all need a Savior - both for those that tried to keep the Law but failed and to the Gentiles which had no law from Moses.

But the gospel of the grace of Christ came so that we would be free from the Law and live in newness of life now in Christ.

 

[disciplemike]

No you have made our point. Law never stopped anyone from sinning. We have thousands of years of recorded history as a testament to that truth.
QUOTE]

so by that line of reasoning, they could do away with all law in Chicago?
again, again, and again, Yeshua did not come to fix the law. The law is perfect. He came to fix us. We are the problem.
This is really not that complicated.

 

[FreeNChrist]

No you have made our point. Law never stopped anyone from sinning. We have thousands of years of recorded history as a testament to that truth.
QUOTE]

so by that line of reasoning, they could do away with all law in Chicago?
again, again, and again, Yeshua did not come to fix the law. The law is perfect. He came to fix us. We are the problem.
This is really not that complicated.

That's just it, one who has been "fixed" has no need for the Law. Jesus is that "fix". He Himself, in us, being who He is and doing what He does is our "fix".

 

[FreeNChrist]

No you have made our point. Law never stopped anyone from sinning. We have thousands of years of recorded history as a testament to that truth.
QUOTE]

so by that line of reasoning, they could do away with all law in Chicago?
again, again, and again, Yeshua did not come to fix the law. The law is perfect. He came to fix us. We are the problem.
This is really not that complicated.

And sense you have no real answer to my question and I have to stuff to do, consider this;

"First, Christ said, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings or burnt offerings or other offerings for sin, nor were you pleased with them” (though they are required by the law of Moses). Then He said, “Look, I have come to do your will.” He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect.” (Heb 10:8-9)


God allowed the destruction of the temple because it had outlived its purpose. The Old was done, it had served its purpose. The New had come…and God was making that clear to the world.

 

[disciplemike]

That's just it, one who has been "fixed" has no need for the Law. Jesus is that "fix". He Himself, in us, being who He is and doing what He does is our "fix".

ok, here is the gray area that stands between us.
you say that jesus is the fix.
you say that one who has been "fixed" by jesus has no need for the law.

but this is not what we see in the modern "church".
I want to be careful how I say this, but we have taught this "grace only" and "easy believism" so long, the mentality is that a "believer" can break all the commandments they want, as long as they tell people they believe in jesus.
that is not the gospel. never was.