Apostle Paul On Tongues In 1 Corinthians

[notuptome]

Thank you, notuptome.

1 Corinthians 13:

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


1 Corinthians 13:8 says nothing about the manifestation of interpretation of tongues.

How can the manifestation of interpretation of tongues be active if [according to you] the manifestation of tongues has ceased?

Perhaps that which is perfect in 1 Cor 13:10 does not relate to completed Scripture but to a yet future event --- when we shall know even as also [we] are known and when we shall see face to face (1 Cor 13:12).

You are the one who has the problem to explain not me.

"How can the manifestation of interpretation of tongues be active if [according to you] the manifestation of tongues has ceased?"

The tongues you claim are manifest are man made and not Holy Spirit "energized" as you quaintly put it.

1 Cor 13:12 is not a mystery. We see Christ face to face by faith. We see Him face to face through the word of God. Reading the first three chapters of Romans clearly lays out for us how God sees us and how God see His Son Jesus Christ. This is why the completion of the NT was so great an event. The vale was lifted from the Law Giver and the most holy part of the sanctuary is open to us.

Our Father in heaven sees His Son in us and His judgment passes over us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[popeye]

Do you remember when some churches in the 1990s had "barking like a dog in the spirit" ? That is what tongues have become, and Paul would be rolling in his tomb.

paul said " i speak with tongues more than you all"

I believe this was key to him writing over half of the epistles.

You are way off on the 'tongues" dimension.

You are speaking cessationist. Examine the other side of the coin. Be amazed at what they DIDN'T TELL YOU.

 

[popeye]

Funny how there are so many folks claiming the gift of tongues, but I've never seen anyone drink poison and not die as proof of their Holy Spirit mojo.

You have disdain for charismatics,WOF,tongues,pentecostals.

Makes me wonder what you were doing in their circles ,supposedly,for so many years.

 

[popeye]

That's another issue. I was referring to what Paul and Luke have written. Where in Scripture do you see that tongues is for evangelism?

Conjecture.

All cessationists believe that,and never teach the other side of the coin.

I am so glad I am allowed God's entire word.

For some,my verses are taboo. Even if they are given an uh oh moment,they blow it off.

 

[Officermayo]

You have disdain for charismatics,WOF,tongues,pentecostals.

Makes me wonder what you were doing in their circles ,supposedly,for so many years.

Don't you see? Being in "their circles" is how I learned what was really going on.

 

[eph610]

Funny how there are so many folks claiming the gift of tongues, but I've never seen anyone drink poison and not die as proof of their Holy Spirit mojo.

I agree with you that certain Pentecostal movements concentrate solely on tongues and way to much.

I personally believe the first initial evidences of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not tongues, I believe it comes within as the fruit of the Spirit of love and comes upon as a power to witness.


I have been on the Mission field and witnessed poison and other dangers never impacting our teams. We had a person on an African trip that got bit by a Black Mamba and nothing happened to her.

 

[eph610]

You have disdain for charismatics,WOF,tongues,pentecostals.

Makes me wonder what you were doing in their circles ,supposedly,for so many years.

NO I just have disdain for charismatics, WOF,tongues,Pentecostals circles that abuse the gifts and then call it the Holy Ghost moving.

Most of the egregious abuses come from the WOF movement and their holy laughter fits, dog barking and other animal noise scenarios. Then the well know Ministers of the movement that wave a finger at a row of 100 people and they all fall out, get back up and start laughing and acting like fools....I guess you need to distract all of those poor folks while you are stealing their money....

 

[Officermayo]

NO I just have disdain for charismatics, WOF,tongues,Pentecostals circles that abuse the gifts and then call it the Holy Ghost moving.

Most of the egregious abuses come from the WOF movement and their holy laughter fits, dog barking and other animal noise scenarios. Then the well know Ministers of the movement that wave a finger at a row of 100 people and they all fall out, get back up and start laughing and acting like fools....I guess you need to distract all of those poor folks while you are stealing their money....

https://youtu.be/EUl36Nc0y-I

 

[LaurenTM]

2 Cor. 3:12-13 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech, and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

your speech is anything but plain

you are being deceptive on this forum

you may have read the Bible umpteen times, but you don't know Christ and you certainly know nothing of the Spirit of God

yet, you make your way here to degrade holy things and mock

Paul thought he was helping God when he attacked Christians

what is it that you think YOU are doing?

 

[LaurenTM]

paul said " i speak with tongues more than you all"

I believe this was key to him writing over half of the epistles.

You are way off on the 'tongues" dimension.

You are speaking cessationist. Examine the other side of the coin. Be amazed at what they DIDN'T TELL YOU.

she is not a believer, period

she has said so and her profile indicates that

I have had many interactions with unbelievers...some have been good friends

what I don't like, is the assumption she believes and knows better

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You are the one who has the problem to explain not me.

No problem for me.

But you do have a problem in your statement that three gifts have ceased and when asked which three gifts have ceased, you point to 1 Cor 13:8.

1 Cor 13:8 mentions prophecies, tongues, and knowledge. So what are you going to do with interpretation of tongues? Interpretation of tongues is shown to be a manifestation of the Spirit as shown in 1 Cor 12 ---

1 Corinthians 12:

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The tongues you claim are manifest are man made and not Holy Spirit "energized" as you quaintly put it.

You have a problem with the word "energized"?

1 Corinthians 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit ...

The word "worketh" is the Greek word energei.

From Mirriam-Webster:

energeia

noun ener·geia \ˌenərˈj|īə, -rˈg|, |āə, |ēə; eˈner(ˌ)gāˌä\

Popularity: Bottom 20% of words

Definition of ENERGEIA

plural -s

1. : ENERGY 4a —contrasted with dynamis

Energeia | Definition of Energeia by Merriam-Webster

Below is 1 Cor 12:11 from various versions of the Bible:

NIV
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit


ESV
All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit


NASB
But one and the same Spirit works all these things


ISV
But one and the same Spirit produces all these results


Which terminology do you prefer?

Work?

Empowered?

Works?

Produces?

1 Cor 13:12 is not a mystery. We see Christ face to face by faith.

1 Corinthians 13:12 indicates we see through a glass darkly at the present time. There is a time coming when we shall behold Him not through the mirror of Scripture. We will look upon Him with unveiled eyes the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads (Rev 22:3,4). It is at this future time we will no longer need that which God gives us in part (1 Cor 13:9).

 

[LaurenTM]

it's really all about Christ and how hungry your heart is

it's not about what you saw or think you saw or how fake everyone else is

perhaps God allows those things to test your heart

seek Him

 

[CharlieGrown]

why would that be?

The "charismatic" term as I knew it, took quite a hit at the end of the 90's with all the bad press. I'm just not aware what that environment is presently compared to back then.

 

[LaurenTM]

The "charismatic" term as I knew it, took quite a hit at the end of the 90's with all the bad press. I'm just not aware what that environment is presently compared to back then.

Christianity is taking quite a hit these days

don't cha think?

 

[CharlieGrown]

Christianity is taking quite a hit these days

don't cha think?

Yes, I was saved and joined into a charismatic church in the late 80's. It was under attack all the time probably because those folks were hungry for God. I saw things taken to the extreme and being manipulated by the enemy (as in all churches) probably because the Holy Spirit flowed so much in that earlier environment. After all, a counterfeiter doesn't waste his time copying a $3 dollar bill....

 

[notuptome]

No problem for me.

Not if all you want to do is go in circles.

1 Corinthians 13:12 indicates we see through a glass darkly at the present time. There is a time coming when we shall behold Him not through the mirror of Scripture. We will look upon Him with unveiled eyes the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads (Rev 22:3,4). It is at this future time we will no longer need that which God gives us in part (1 Cor 13:9).

The OT was the glass darkly. Things were presented in part with part hidden. The NT opens the hidden parts and what we see is what God was saying in the OT.

Rev is not what Paul had in view when he wrote to the church at Corinth. We have both parts we have the complete revelation of Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[LaurenTM]

Yes, I was saved and joined into a charismatic church in the late 80's. It was under attack all the time probably because those folks were hungry for God. I saw things taken to the extreme and being manipulated by the enemy (as in all churches) probably because the Holy Spirit flowed so much in that earlier environment. After all, a counterfeiter doesn't waste his time copying a $3 dollar bill....

extreme at either end is the end game of making Christianity either so dull it is useless or so off the wall, that folks need a rubber room

neither is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The OT was the glass darkly.

That is not what 1 Corinthians 13:12 says, notuptome.

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly ...

The verse does not say "For then they saw through a glass, darkly".

Paul wrote to a church that was established after Day of Pentecost when the believers first received the promise of the Father, the power from on high spoken of by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in Luke 24:49.

Paul wrote to the Church, the Church to which we as believers were added and believers are still being added in our day (notwithstanding the amount of time which has passed between when Paul first wrote these words and today).

 

[notuptome]

That is not what 1 Corinthians 13:12 says, notuptome.

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly ...

The verse does not say "For then they saw through a glass, darkly".

Paul wrote to a church that was established after Day of Pentecost when the believers first received the promise of the Father, the power from on high spoken of by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in Luke 24:49.

Paul wrote to the Church, the Church to which we as believers were added and believers are still being added in our day (notwithstanding the amount of time which has passed between when Paul first wrote these words and today).

Simple truth. When Paul wrote that the NT was not complete. The Apostles were preaching from the OT scriptures not the NT.

Jesus said that the church He established would prevail even against the gates of hell. Still is to this day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Talishi]

Simple truth. When Paul wrote that the NT was not complete. The Apostles were preaching from the OT scriptures not the NT.

Certainly at Pentecost and for long thereafter, the Apostles were preaching from oral tradition as well as the OT, since the OT scriptures do not give the name of Jesus Christ, which they said was the only name by which man are saved. When the Book of Mormon does this in the passages which are purportedly "BC", it betrays itself as fiction.