pauls design in truth

[eph610]

to Love Him is to obey Him

Someone told me once that Jesus loved us so much he stayed nailed to the cross...I replied, it was not the spikes that held him on the cross for us....


When you understand this, you will stop striving for perfection through personal works and start thriving in position gifted to you and gain true intimacy with Father .

 

[Talishi]

Oh really?

The Lord will probably be disappointed that you said that.

Are you sure? Because objective righteousness is often called "works based", and is attacked by many Christians in favor of forensic righteousness, that righteousness which is simply declared to be, by fiat.

 

[Grandpa]

Are you sure? Because objective righteousness is often called "works based", and is attacked by many Christians in favor of forensic righteousness, that righteousness which is simply declared to be, by fiat.

Do you know what the word 'efficacious' means? I had to look it up the first time I saw it. But it is a brilliant descriptive word.

What the Lord makes clean is clean indeed.

 

[Talishi]

Do you know what the word 'efficacious' means? I had to look it up the first time I saw it. But it is a brilliant descriptive word. What the Lord makes clean is clean indeed.

Paul wasn't so sure.

"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27).

 

[Grace777x70]

There is only 2 kinds of righteousness - Christ's or self. There is no such thing as subjective or objective or forensic righteousness in the scriptures. And there is only one kind of righteousness that counts when standing before God - His righteousness alone and that is obtained by grace through faith alone in Christ. It is a gift of righteousness and NOT something "we do in order" to earn it or maintain it - Romans 5:17.

Romans 10:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

As the old song states so beautifully. "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness."

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[lastofall]

[for me anyway] it is not Paul's design or Paul's doctrine, rather it is the Holy Spirit of Truth speaking through Paul the Truth according to God; as for Paul himself, he lets us know in behalf of himself and the other Apostles that "we can do nothing against the Truth, but for the Truth" (2 Corinthians 13:8) and again "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tells you the Truth" (Galatians 4:16).

There is a reason why what was spoken by Paul and the others is scripture; this is not a carnally minded endeavor in which we may casually receive that which is written, and conclude something written is merely that person's opinion; that is not how it is with the Word of God, rather coming to God's Word we must have the fear of God before our eyes.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Paul wasn't so sure.

"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27).

I suppose you do serve a purpose, but I doubt for long. The only thing that "qualifies" anyone for salvation is to be dead. Which all of us who are now saved were before we received the life of Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

So are you perfect (sinless)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul wasn't so sure.

"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27).

Paul must have been a confused men, Was he not the same paul who said has given us the spirit until the day of redemption, and that spirit is our seal, or guarantee of eternal life? Did not paul say we have eternal life, We were justified freely, Did he not call the Galatians fools for trying to take what God perfected already by the psirit, and make it more perfect in the flesh?

Did not paul admit he was the chief of all sinners, Did this not mean he was the most unqualified person of all to get to heaven? Did not paul say he was not saved by his own works of rightiousness, but by Gods mercy?\

its ok, The author of Hebrews (many think is paul) said by one offering God perfected FOREVER those being sanctified.

so no, Paul did not think he could become disqualified and lose salvation. Disqualified to teach, yes but To enter heaven, He knew he was not qualified anyway.

 

[Talishi]

I suppose you do serve a purpose, but I doubt for long. The only thing that "qualifies" anyone for salvation is to be dead. Which all of us who are now saved were before we received the life of Christ.

Paul was pretty sure he didn't have something on the books that would keep him from salvation, but not absolutely sure. This alone tells me that it is possible for a person who is "saved" at Bible Camp at age 14 to lose it by age 51.

"I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4)

 

[FreeNChrist]

Paul was pretty sure he didn't have something on the books that would keep him from salvation, but not absolutely sure. This alone tells me that it is possible for a person who is "saved" at Bible Camp at age 14 to lose it by age 51.

"I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4)

All that should tell you is that you are reading into it something that is not there.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul was pretty sure he didn't have something on the books that would keep him from salvation, but not absolutely sure. This alone tells me that it is possible for a person who is "saved" at Bible Camp at age 14 to lose it by age 51.

"I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court.[SUP][a][/SUP] In fact, I do not even judge myself. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.

I do not see how paul saying he could care less what any man says about him (judges him) for he does not even judge himself, Only God is the right judge, (ie. I can not justify myself nor can you justify me, only God can.) Have to do with paul saying he may not be saved??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All that should tell you is that you are reading into it something that is not there.

Context is a mighty powerful thing.. If people would just use it.

 

[Talishi]

I do not see how paul saying he could care less what any man says about him (judges him) for he does not even judge himself, Only God is the right judge, (ie. I can not justify myself nor can you justify me, only God can.) Have to do with paul saying he may not be saved??

It's that little word "justified" he uses in the passage. Soteriological term. Goes with sanctified, grace, faith, hope, salvation, assurance, perseverance, and other such words.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's that little word "justified" he uses in the passage. Soteriological term. Goes with sanctified, grace, faith, hope, salvation, assurance, perseverance, and other such words.

Again Context helps..

Paul said I am not justified by how I judge myself..

so why would he worry about what others thought of him.

 

[followjesus]

Nah, It is not because you mention obedience, Everyone here is talking about being obedient.

It is about you thinking you can EARN Gods grace..

actually no, its about whether or not we who receive Gods true Grace, are willing to honor Jesus who died to Give us hope and Life. its the difference between saying I belong to Jesus, who is the Lord" and saying Jesus died so i dont need to honor him, if i need to honor Him, then its not grace. HUGE difference. one is the doctrine of Jesus, the other is to omit the gospel, saying it applies to others, to omit repentance, eternal Judgement, the responsability to honor Jesus with every part of our Lives because He gave all His blood to redeem us from death.

anytime anyone says " you have to obey Jesus" as JESUS makes very clear, the small group comes running "nope" you dont have to obey, your already perfect . finished work, finished work......you guys hold a false doctrine that omits the fact that we are fogeiven of the lives we used to live, and cleansed of all of those sinful actions, and now are rewuired to live the new, by obeying the Lord because of all he has done for us. its about NOT being comfortable in our sin, and pressing forward with all our hearts and efforts having been given the gift of the holy spirit, relying on the fact that God Loves us and His word is for us, meaning His commandments, and every warning about refusing to repent of sin, claiming that its all finished now we rest. thats not true at all as taught by men like jp. we are to make every effort to enter the rest of the resurrection. we arent to rest until our part is fulfilled. take pauls examples wich are many.

philippians 3:7-19 "But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[SUP]a[/SUP]Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,11and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16Only let us live up to what we have already attained.17Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do. 18For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things. "


plenty more in the epistles of paul, peter ect. you will not find them saying follow my example and do nothing, follow my example and dont worry about Gods commands. the rest referred to is here.

hebrew 4:11 "Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience."

make every effort to enter the rest that comes through the sanctification that comes through following Jesus to the cross or simply, believe Him and do as you learn, remember he teaches that we are to go to work, not rest, the one who rests is then condemned and cut to peices. the ones who work are commended and the lazy servants talent is given to those who went to work with thiers. its the difference between the "gospel of grace" and the gospel of Jesus Christ. the true and only gospel

 

[followjesus]

Again Context helps..

Paul said I am not justified by how I judge myself..

so why would he worry about what others thought of him.

exactly, His concern was Gods approval by Living to please God

 

[Grandpa]

Paul wasn't so sure.

"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27).

Why does this make you think Paul wasn't sure?

1 Corinthians 9:25-26
[FONT=&quot]25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:[/FONT]

 

[followjesus]

[SUP]3 [/SUP]But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court.[SUP][a][/SUP] In fact, I do not even judge myself. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.

I do not see how paul saying he could care less what any man says about him (judges him) for he does not even judge himself, Only God is the right judge, (ie. I can not justify myself nor can you justify me, only God can.) Have to do with paul saying he may not be saved??

My conscience is clear, but that DOES NOT make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God."

2 cor, 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

romans 2:7-11 "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism."

galatians 6:7-9 "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. "

all repeats of what Jesus taught in the gospel. the wicked and righteous will be judged accoprding to what they have done. forgiveness is available in Christ " forgive and you will be forgiven" the life beforehand is forgiven because of His death, now we are accountable to serve and Love Him as He commanded. from the point we claim the name of Jesus for our forgiveness, we are obluigated to follow Him

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My conscience is clear, but that DOES NOT make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God."

2 cor, 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

romans 2:7-11 "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism."

galatians 6:7-9 "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. "

all repeats of what Jesus taught in the gospel. the wicked and righteous will be judged accoprding to what they have done. forgiveness is available in Christ " forgive and you will be forgiven" the life beforehand is forgiven because of His death, now we are accountable to serve and Love Him as He commanded. from the point we claim the name of Jesus for our forgiveness, we are obluigated to follow Him

lol.. Nice try.

Paul said no one can judge another person. We will all be judged by God. It does not mean we do not have eternal life now. Jesus said we do, John said we do. Do you want to argue with Jesus?

The believer is not condemned already, those are the words of Christ, Yes they will be judged, at the BEMA seat. where their work will be tried by fire, and they will be rewarded. Gold silver precious stone, Wood hay and stubble,,

The non believer, he is condemned already, If he is not saved, by repenting and coming to christ, He will be delivered to Jesus at the great white throne judgment. His works will be tried, and he will be found lacking (because our works can not save us) and since he rejected the salvation of Christ, he will be swent to eternal darkness, ther will be weepeing and gnashing of teeth.

No unsaved person will be at the bema seat trial, No saved person will be at the great white throne trial.

I can not judge your salvation, You can not judge mine, Only God can, That is what paul was saying.. PERIOD!