Alcohol

[Magenta]

In narcotics anonymous, the literature specifically says that the spiritual core
of our disease is self-centerdness. You won't get any argument from me

 

[Magenta]

i was just using it as an example.

I see. Well, I have made almost seventy posts on this thread alone, the majority of which speak directly to the problem of alcoholism and recovery of such, plus my own struggles and my recovery process. You labelled it all as boring the other night, so I felt slighted then. Not that you aren't allowed to find my sharing boring. Just that I would not have expected you to.

 

[Sirk]

I see. Well, I have made almost seventy posts on this thread alone, the majority of which speak directly to the problem of alcoholism and recovery of such, plus my own struggles and my recovery process. You labelled it all as boring the other night, so I felt slighted then. Not that you aren't allowed to find my sharing boring. Just that I would not have expected you to.

Oh crap. I totally see how you would think that was directed at you then and how that must have felt. I promise I didn't have you in mind with that comment. Thanks for telling me that. The truth is that I value you.

 

[Magenta]

Beyond that, it was my problem to deal with and I did not put it on you at all. I understand from my own experience that being raised in a large family contributed to my feeling unimportant in the larger scheme of things, undervalued. My parents were undemonstrative, there was no affection, we were never told we were loved, there was an atmosphere of secrecy silence and shame around very important basic things, and stifling religious restrictions were simply eventually strenuously rebelled against hard. I saw no value in religion at all, when people were such hypocrites. I understood a lot on some levels and nothing on others. I remember a conversation I had as a fifteen year old with a married-with-children older sister. She was amazed at how much of the family dynamic I grasped. Still I used, sometimes to excess, to the point where I was hospitalized on multiple occasions. Self knowledge does not save us from ourselves.

 

[Magenta]

Oh crap. I totally see how you would think that was directed at you then and how that must have felt. I promise I didn't have you in mind with that comment. Thanks for telling me that.

Dearest Sirk, the comment did hurt a little but I did not take it to be directed at me personally, it is just that I was after all caught in the net of it. I have a great deal of respect for you and love how you are a staunch defender of boundaries and truth in interpersonal relationships.

 

[tourist]

Beyond that, it was my problem to deal with and I did not put it on you at all. I understand from my own experience that being raised in a large family contributed to my feeling unimportant in the larger scheme of things, undervalued. My parents were undemonstrative, there was no affection, we were never told we were loved, there was an atmosphere of secrecy silence and shame around very important basic things, and stifling religious restrictions were simply eventually strenuously rebelled against hard. I saw no value in religion at all, when people were such hypocrites. I understood a lot on some levels and nothing on others. I remember a conversation I had as a fifteen year old with a married-with-children older sister. She was amazed at how much of the family dynamic I grasped. Still I used, sometimes to excess, to the point where I was hospitalized on multiple occasions. Self knowledge does not save us from ourselves.

This was a very sad story that you told. It is terrible not to feel loved, especially by those that you care about. Despite these hard circumstances of your own you genuinely care about people. I believe that you have empathy.

 

[Sirk]

Dearest Sirk, the comment did hurt a little but I did not take it to be directed at me personally, it is just that I was after all caught in the net of it. I have a great deal of respect for you and love how you are a staunch defender of boundaries and truth in interpersonal relationships.

Awe thanks. I'm really sorry that something I said hurt your heart. The truth is that I value you.

 

[Magenta]

This was a very sad story that you told. It is terrible not to feel loved, especially by those that you care about. Despite these hard circumstances of your own you genuinely care about people. I believe that you have empathy.

Thank you Jerry, for your always very caring responses to me. I do have a problem accepting genuine compliments from others, especially since I see the sin equation so clearly, I cannot say I am a good person. I do try to be a good person, and I do care, my heart breaks when others are heart broken, but I know I can't always fix it.

 

[Sirk]

One thing I've learned is to get rid of phrases like "a little". Minimizing our feelings is unhelpful. It hurt, plain and simple. We must learn to state things as they are. Minimizing the pain we feel is a coded way to allow others to keep stepping on us.

 

[Magenta]

Awe thanks. I'm really sorry that something I said hurt your heart. The truth is that I value you.

I know, and I hope you know that I value you, also I know you genuinely care about others and have a true heart that reaches out to help others in distress. I have a great deal of respect for you, and your ability to be so honest and vulnerable.

 

[Magenta]

One thing I've learned is to get rid of phrases like "a little". Minimizing our feelings is unhelpful. It hurt, plain and simple. We must learn to state things as they are. Minimizing the pain we feel is a coded way to allow others to keep stepping on us.

Okay I said "a little" because it did not devastate me, like it would have if
I were in love with you as opposed to simply loving you as a brother in Christ

 

[Sirk]

Okay I said "a little" because it did not devastate me, like it would have if
I were in love with you as opposed to simply loving you as a brother in Christ

I just was encouraging you to practice being assertive when it is safe. It's much harder when it's not. Lol

 

[Magenta]

I just was encouraging you to practice being assertive when it is safe. It's much harder when it's not. Lol

Okay. Oy, I had such a problem in my addiction with boundaries. I trusted way too many people. You know that U2 song, you give yourself away, and you give, and you give, and you give yourself away? That was me. So learning about boundaries has been a huge part of my process. And then they seem to conflict with Jesus telling us to love everyone, forgive everything. How do we have boundaries and still do that? At least drugs and alcohol are no longer part of the equation for me, adding to the muddle

 

[Sirk]

Okay. Oy, I had such a problem in my addiction with boundaries. I trusted way too many people. You know that U2 song, you give yourself away, and you give, and you give, and you give yourself away? That was me. So learning about boundaries has been a huge part of my process. And then they seem to conflict with Jesus telling us to love everyone, forgive everything. How do we have boundaries and still do that? At least drugs and alcohol are no longer part of the equation for me, adding to the muddle

This might sound trite but I look at it like this. Jesus loves us how we need to be loved not always how we want to be. Sometimes it's the same with people.

 

[Magenta]

This might sound trite but I look at it like this. Jesus loves us how we need to be loved not always how we want to be. Sometimes it's the same with people.

My sense is that Jesus loves us unconditionally. He laid down His life that we might know His great love for us. People are not usually capable of such unconditional love. The closest I get to it is with my daughter. I am sure you understand that with your connection to and love for your son. I can have a sense of universal love for people and often do, but up close and personal is a completely different ball game LOL I assume it is the same for others

 

[Sirk]

My sense is that Jesus loves us unconditionally. He laid down His life that we might know His great love for us. People are not usually capable of such unconditional love. The closest I get to it is with my daughter. I am sure you understand that with your connection to and love for your son. I can have a sense of universal love for people and often do, but up close and personal is a completely different ball game LOL I assume it is the same for others

Jesus showed us how. Lots of really cool little interpersonal moments he had with the 12. A wealth of knowledge there about boundaries and compassion.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus showed us how. Lots of really cool little interpersonal moments he had with the 12. A wealth of knowledge there about boundaries and compassion.

So true, but with them, they largely accepted Jesus as their teacher, it was not a typical reciprocal relationship for the most part. They were generally not seeking to tell Him what was what. Peter tried it once and was called Satan for it haha. Jesus did constantly take their inventory, and criticize them. It is pretty easy to see how clueless they were in some respects, about Who He really was, even as they followed Him for years.

I don't think people generally do well in a situation like that. We want a more level playing field. Don't we? We want to be loved and accepted for who we are, not constantly picked at and told we are not good enough, even if we do need to change.

Addictions do come from a place of deep pain. Sometimes it is hard to face.

 

[Sirk]

So true, but with them, they largely accepted Jesus as their teacher, it was not a typical reciprocal relationship for the most part. They were generally not seeking to tell Him what was what. Peter tried it once and was called Satan for it haha. Jesus did constantly take their inventory, and criticize them. It is pretty easy to see how clueless they were in some respects, about Who He really was, even as they followed Him for years.

I don't think people generally do well in a situation like that. We want a more level playing field. Don't we? We want to be loved and accepted for who we are, not constantly picked at and told we are not good enough, even if we do need to change.

Addictions do come from a place of deep pain. Sometimes it is hard to face.

ill bet Jesus was pretty fun and that his friends really felt safe with him. There are also some instances where he had the disciples send people away so he had time to himself. I think ultimately as we grow we want to be a safe place for those around us. That's how we help those who want to be helped. Some people don't want help...and there is nothing we can do about that except pray. And sometimes we have to take measures to protect ourselves from those kinds of people.

 

[Stephen63]

so you are pretty sure that God would choose you instead of Noah? yes?

because you alone really understand what the Bible says here, right?


it is called the BDF to be sure, but when you and others want to force YOUR opinions as understanding, it becomes something else

the Bible does not say that all other flesh had been corrupted by the sons of God...that is YOUR opinion

this is what scripture actually states in Genesis 6

11Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. 13Then God said to Noah, "The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth.…

it just states that all were corrupted...which indicates the downward spiral of sin without a redeemer...read it...it says the flesh had corrupted its own way...SIN

you entirely and completely MISSED the FACT that Noah planted a vinyard, made some wine and got rip roaring drunk to the point of parading around naked and collapsing on his bed

where do you see God sending him to hell after that? where do you see God, through Moses, saying that now Noah was condemned?

NOWHERE...that's where

however, Noah DID curse the son that mocked him

you can preach against adultery till the cows come home...it's rampant IN the church. doesn't that tell you how much good all that preaching is doing?


you and others who interpret, rather than READ and ADMIT what the text says, seem to desire to exclude or add to whatever does not fit your personal paradigm

wine is not juice and juice is not wine...tell yourself the words are interchangeable but you are arguing AGAINST the Bible

God has CHOSEN adulterers...wine bibbers...and liars...the people God has chosen do not meet your standards

you folks read the Bible and want to teach everyone else, but you will not even let the Bible say what it is actually saying

Wow, Pollyanna gets banned for being obnoxious & you step up & take her place. But because you're on the "other side" of the discussion you're ok?
John146 has been stating his opinion which IS his right, whether right or wrong.

Since you didn't like Pollyanna, why are you acting like her?

 

[Stephen63]

And for the record, that Pollyanna chick was really a hurtful person and I'm glad she is gone.

Well, she DID serve a purpose..... She managed to rally the social drinkers together, didn't she?

That's the way it works..... find someone hard-headed & arrogant on the "other side", tick her off, get her banned & the end result is the "other side" rallies against all the other dissenters & treat them all like uneducated morons. It's psychology, plain & simple. Somebody's been played. And that's my rightful opinion. And I'm just warmin' up