A true Christian is a "follower" of Jesus Christ

[JGIG]

If you believe faith produces works, but doesn't keep us saved, but is evidence of what God wrought in us, I see no disagreement. I misunderstood your posts.

Bless you

But it is prophesied that many would depart from the faith, and thus in doing so fall away from the faith= being unfruitful and eventually being cast forth as a dead branch and burned like Jesus said. But OSAS followers twist the meaning of that parable like alot of other verses to force their false doctrine to fit the doctrines of men. These are those who were once in Christ, once enlightened by the Holy Spirit but departed, and fell away as Heb 6:4-6 shows this fact also. OSAS doctrine is false, and one can in fact fall away from the faith and be lost. But the doctrines of men have blinded you and many others from seeing this very important warning and Truth.

Well it's a good thing that our salvation doesn't depend on us maintaining it then!

So thankful that we have a Perfect, Permanent High Priest, Who was tempted as we are, has compassion on us, and ever lives to intercede for us.

Not only that, but we can come boldly to His throne of GRACE (not judgement) to find help in our times of need (see Heb. 4)!

The Good News, is so . . . . . . Good!

​-JGIG

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You did a little, eh?

And since he disagrees with your Law-keeping bent he's wrong, is that it? You keep pointing to the Law and it's bearing a lot of strife and division.

More straw man tactics to misrepresent my position because I have exposed JP's heresy and false doctrine. That is to be expected by those who are his followers.

Luke 6:39
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

 

[Grace777x70]

What is departing from the faith? What does that scripture say when we look at it "in context"?

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.

verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others..is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort...

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[JGIG]

More straw man tactics to misrepresent my position because I have exposed JP's heresy and false doctrine. That is to be expected by those who are his followers.

Luke 6:39
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Dude, YOU didn't expose anything but your own inability to do your own research by actually watching/listening to what JP actually preaches.

You relied on and POSTED someone else's perception of JP, which, when anyone goes to your source, they can see that it's a hit piece and not a true examination of JP's teaching.

Nice try, though.

-JGIG

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Dude, YOU didn't expose anything but your own inability to do your own research by actually watching/listening to what JP actually preaches.

You relied on and POSTED someone else's perception of JP, which, when anyone goes to your source, they can see that it's a hit piece and not a true examination of JP's teaching.

Nice try, though.

-JGIG

Dudette that was JP's false name it and claim it, and just think yourself "perfect" salvation teachings I quoted in that thread shown here--->>>

Colossians 2 tells us we are already made perfect in Christ. We don’t work towards perfection. Christ has made us perfect from the Cross. The minute you believe you are made perfect in Christ. You work from your perfection not to it.” 38

And also here---->>>>

the power to overcome sin is found in knowing that you are righteous. When a believer is struggling with sin, it is a case of mistaken identity. He thinks that he is still a dirty rotten sinner…Believers are struggling with sin today precisely because they do not realize that they are righteous.

Which came from here---->>>>Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Well it's a good thing that our salvation doesn't depend on us maintaining it then!

That's because you believe these false teachings of JP--->>>>

3- Christianity is effortless (the kingdom of heaven is a welfare state)
4-Asking forgiveness for sin is unnecessary for “believers”
8-The gift of righteousness means we are righteous even if we are not
9-Unconditional forgiveness
13-Believers aren’t punished for sin
14-We never truly stop sinning but God’s okay with that
18-Christian’s cannot commit the unpardonable sin
19-Once a person is saved they can never be lost
23-Confession of sins for believers is about “being open” with God, not about repentance because we are already forgiven
25-Confession of sin is unnecessary because we would have to confess all the time (inferring we would never stop sinning)
39-God didn’t unconditionally protect rebellious sinners in the Old Testament who were bitten by serpents but He will unconditionally protect rebellious sinners (“Christians”) in the New Testament
43-The doctrine of repentance from sin is not for believers
47-“Falling from grace” doesn’t mean sinning, it means reverting to the law.”

 

[Grace777x70]

The fact remains that it is "in knowing" truth about Christ which includes that fact that Christ is our righteousness that our faith becomes effective.

Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.


This verse shows that it is in the "knowing" that we were crucified with Christ that we are not under "sin" anymore. When we were raised with Christ - He made us righteous in Him.

Romans 6:5-7 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.


The whole true Christian faith is based on right believing based on the finished work of Christ.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The fact remains that it is "in knowing" truth about Christ which includes that fact that Christ is our righteousness that our faith becomes effective.

Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by theacknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.


This verse shows that it is in the "knowing" that we were crucified with Christ that we are not under "sin" anymore. When we were raised with Christ - He made us righteous in Him.

Romans 6:5-7 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.


The whole true Christian faith is based on right believing based on the finished work of Christ.

You cannot just "right think" yourself 10 foot tall. But if God made you 10 foot tall, then you would know for sure you were in fact 10 foot tall because it would show, and be a reality. Same with ceasing from sin, you cannot "right think" yourself free from sin as Joseph Prince suggests. But if Jesus Christ truly makes you free from sin, then you will in fact be free from sin, and it will show and be a reality.

 

[Grace777x70]

There is much confusion over this term " freed from sin" in Romans 6 which if not looked at correctly will lead to all kinds of strange doctrines that deny the work of Christ for salvation and actually create works-based doctrines of men which are actually against Christ's work on the cross, burial, resurrection and ascension.

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection" one that some try to promote in that they never give in to the flesh and sin ( the verb ). This false doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and upset their faith.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life.

Sin the noun has been quarantined in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.


The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us ( such as we are now the righteousness of God in Christ ) - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life.

This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )

 

[PeterJens]

You do it to yourself..

EG - Do not know what you mean, but if you are happy, that is all I can hope
for you.

I love Jesus because it is simple. Learn how to meet needs, to share love and
grow in the Kingdom. I thought everyone knew this.

But then people not of the Kingdom are here as well. Hallelujah, for in all things
it is to Gods glory.

When you walk with Jesus the only enemies are His enemies so have no fear, for
He is with you.

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matt 24:10-13

So be prepared for irrational, unyielding and deluded opposition, because to them
you will be evil but to the Lord blessed.

 

[PeterJens]

There is much confusion over this term " freed from sin"

I have to say there is no confusion in the kingdom of heaven about this term
freed from sin. But for those still captive to sin yet claim faith in Christ, it is
confusing because surely if they had entered by the gate the fruit would be
in their lives.

To perceive they have not entered in is too profound for them.
So we get a long explanation which is obviously very involved, because it
must explain away that which should have happened but has failed to work
even after decades literally of being a "christian".

Maybe these people should actually just keep quiet and let the Holy Spirit
speak to peoples hearts.

 

[PeterJens]

One question comes to mind.

If every sharing from scripture needs a commentary against legalism or the wrong lens etc.
maybe God missed this out of the bible for a reason, because this is what is meant by adding
to scripture.

When I look at scripture I ask, who is God? Did he intend this strange book or is there something
missing?

Now God planned this from the beginning of time, He knew what needed to be done and how it
would be brought into existance, and what needed to be included and what needed to be left out.

But man in his wisdom, always wants to either take away too much or add too much rather than
wait and listen, and let it flow through their spirit. It is why this book after 3,400 years is still
alive today as it was when Moses started writing down the law.

And most of the speculation and "insights" do not matter because in the end it us, the work of
Gods hands that are the fruit of the words and our lives testimony to His gospel of love and grace.

 

[followjesus]

Anyone pleasing God Almighty will be pleasant to all who believe. For some it may not appear so in this age, but come the Kingdom it will be eternally self-evident.

amen, we are actually taught to live for the Kingdom now, were not taught to live for this life, were actually taught to belong to God, to live as in His kingdom presently. were taught to put to death earthly nature, to not Love the things of the world, to actually learn what pleases God and live that way. its not about earning salvation like they always return to the futile thinking. no one could earn salvation, thats the whole reason Jesus died. but He is not a savior only, he is also Lord. the term Lord should be taken as what it means. when a person has a Lord, what the Lord tells them to actually do is what rules. that should mean something to those who hold a savior named Jesus, He is also Lord, King, teacher, shepherd. not only a scapegoat for our sin, but also the ruler of Gods Kingdom

 

[followjesus]

I have to say there is no confusion in the kingdom of heaven about this term
freed from sin. But for those still captive to sin yet claim faith in Christ, it is
confusing because surely if they had entered by the gate the fruit would be
in their lives.

To perceive they have not entered in is too profound for them.
So we get a long explanation which is obviously very involved, because it
must explain away that which should have happened but has failed to work
even after decades literally of being a "christian".

Maybe these people should actually just keep quiet and let the Holy Spirit
speak to peoples hearts.

it all hinges on whether a person takes Jesus word for things. He is the way, the truth and the Life. the very One who is returning, gives the clearest picture of what His return will be like, yet some cant acceopt it, so they have to change the color and shape of the lens to make it apply and support thier own way of thinking, thoier own way of Life, to excuse them to follow thier own will rather than Gods. when a person has to change what Jesus says to make it fit a doctrine, that is when they need to abandon that very doctrine and follow Jesus

 

[PeterJens]

it all hinges on whether a person takes Jesus word for things. He is the way, the truth and the Life. the very One who is returning, gives the clearest picture of what His return will be like, yet some cant acceopt it, so they have to change the color and shape of the lens to make it apply and support thier own way of thinking, thoier own way of Life, to excuse them to follow thier own will rather than Gods. when a person has to change what Jesus says to make it fit a doctrine, that is when they need to abandon that very doctrine and follow Jesus

Amen, listen and learn from God.

 

[Angela53510]

So here is my advice, in my last post on this thread, which is spinning its wheels and no one posting anything new to add to the topic.

In Canada in the winter, (or on the beach in the sand in Texas!) if you get stuck and are spinning your wheels, people naturally gun the motor and spin the wheels even faster. Resulting in staying in the same place, and often digging an even bigger hole for yourself!

You need to find some sand, dirt, trees to put under the back tires. But if that is not available, just follow these instructions!

Spin the wheels very slowly, barely touching the gas. Get someone who can rock the vehicle for you, and push more and more and the vehicle will usually come out.

So, allegorically speaking, instead of repeating the same things over and over, harder and harder using bolder and bolder type and colours - slow down! Take a break. Pray and seek God! Revisit the issue when you have patiently and carefully done this.

It is amazing how the fruit of the Holy Spirit - patience - will not only get you unstuck as a car, but also unstuck spiritually!

 

[followjesus]

Actually we are told to prophesy, do miracles, and drive demons out.

MARK 16:15-20 NKJ
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.

BUT, we do not rejoice in this... but that our names are written in heaven.

Luke 10:20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”


When we are given authority to bring the Kingdom of God, it IS love to release it.

Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Luke 24:48You are witnesses of these things. 49And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Notice Jesus says the following:
1. Those who believe in Me will do what I do and more.
2. Teach what I have taught you.
3. Wait until Holy Spirit (power) has come upon you.
4. Once power has come upon you be My witnesses.

It's not walk in power or love. It's love and also walk in power.

1 Co 14:1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.

i think you are confusing evidence of the holy spirit, with what Jesus teaches His followers to actually do remember miracles are a gift of the spirit, some are given that power some are not, others are given other gifts to use to show the world Jesus is true. miracles are for unbelievers to see and then believe, to be convinced, same with many gifts of the spirit. when He says " we are to do the things He did" it relates to " deny yourself pick up your cross and follow me" that is what the greater works are, the greatest Love, selfless, sacrificial Love, denying my wants, to meet anothers need.

Thats the commands of Jesus, to Love those who are unloved by the world. when He says " Love others as yourself" when were hungry, we feed ourselves, thirsty we get a drink, naked we clothe ourselves ect. Love is in the action according to the word. the gisfts of the spirit, are for spreading the gospels truth, evidence to helop others believe. Ithink if you Look at matthew 25 you can see that those who are sent to eternal fire had the spirit, yet failed to Love others. its really clear in the scriptures i left. they prophecied ( a spiritual gift) 1 corinthians 14:1 "Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy." and in matthew 7 " Lord did we not prophecy in your name?" these are rejected with the phrase " away from me you evildoers matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

they prophecied in His name, a gift of the spirit for edification and building up the church, this is not a command that we are to do, but a manifestation of a spiritaul gift. the things He teaches us to actually go and do, are evident through His gospel " Love one another with action and in truth, not with words but by laying down your life for others. meeting thier need as we do our own when we are able. His gospel teaches godly Love, and for His followers to act in that. a manifestation of a spiritual gift, also is to be used, but not all receive the same gifts, so theres a difference in a command, and a spiritual gift. all are commanded to Love others, those with a spiritual gift, excercise it for the purpose of edification. that has zero to do with salvation. as you see in matthew 7:22-23, and matthew 25. we may have great spiritual gifts, but if we do not " follow the way of Gods Love" we will hear what we do not want to hear from The Lord. if we Just take Jesus words, as if he knows perfectly what he is saying then its evident that what we do, having received forgiveness beforehand, matters greatly. to receive His blood and not receive His word...thats a scary thought.


I believe we all shopuld be among those who hear " well done my good and faithful servant, come and take your inheritance prepared for you from the creation of the world" those who give thier selves to His Love, applying it to our lives for the sake of others.

rather than be among thos who call Him lord, and hear "away from me you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

the clearest picture of Judgement the most unmistakable is that which Jesus himself Gives. those who did not actually do God s will, they believed, even had spiritual gifts and used them, what they lacked and what made the difference in eternal Life in his presence and glory, or eternal Life in eternal fire was whether they actually did the things He taught. which is to Love in action and in truth.

james 2:14-16 "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? "

or again

1 john 3:16-18 "This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth."

its really about belief in action

 

[followjesus]

Amen, listen and learn from God.[/QUOTE


amen thats the wisest and simplest doctrine you state there. " listen and learn from the Lord"

 

[followjesus]

You cannot just "right think" yourself 10 foot tall. But if God made you 10 foot tall, then you would know for sure you were in fact 10 foot tall because it would show, and be a reality. Same with ceasing from sin, you cannot "right think" yourself free from sin as Joseph Prince suggests. But if Jesus Christ truly makes you free from sin, then you will in fact be free from sin, and it will show and be a reality.

right belief is necessary, thats why we need to believe in Jesus and learn to believe as He taught and clearly He taught " dont just hear and think this, apply it to life" thats right thinking.

 

[PeterJens]

Amen, listen and learn from God.[/QUOTE


amen thats the wisest and simplest doctrine you state there. " listen and learn from the Lord"

This reminds me of something my son said. God does not speak to me.

Now when I think about this, it is just not reading or listening to the words of God,
Christ. Does God have to be a dictaphone reading the gospels into our ears before
we understand this is God speaking to us. God only needs to make it more personal
occasionally when we need a nudge here or there. But most times we are saying
we do not like what we have, rather than we want to learn what we can do with
what we have.