History of the Sabbath - Have you been tricked?

[Grace777x70]

This is part of why you are an idiot.
And that is a Biblical term.
(2Peter1.20)

G2398 idios (id'-ee-os) adj.
1. pertaining to self, i.e. one's own
2. (by implication) private or separate



If anyone disagrees with you, you immediately throw up that that person must not have Christ.
Baloney, sir.
I have told you many times that I have a Savior.
But you try to gain points with your fans and cheerleaders with your grandstanding lies.
lies are ugly on xtians.
Be a man. Don't lie.

mike...I am not responding to your insults or "baiting". Come to Christ and that veil that is over your mind will be lifted and then the Holy Spirit will reveal the beauty of Christ to you. He really is that wonderful!

You can carry on with your attempt to get people to desert Christ but the saints have been warned by many here. I wipe my feet of you as it is unprofitable.

Titus 3:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless

I will let the others continue to try to persuade you to see Christ ( just like Paul did in Acts 28:23..even thought I realize you are not Jewish at all but the principal still applies as the law has your mind in a veil about Christ )

We invite you to come and see His beauty and that His work has been done and we can really rest in His works.

Jesus is our Sabbath rest and will be for all eternity. What a great salvation we have in Him!

 

[SarahFaith]

again, the Torah is not "oral tradition".
also again, I asked you to post the verse that says we need no man to teach us, with the surrounding verses, but you won't.

(1John 2:27)
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[SarahFaith]

(Col 2:16)
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

 

[gotime]

You also asked this:

Let me ask you a question. If someone doesn't observe the Sabbath as outlined in the Old Covenant the way that you do - are they sinning?

I will respond with a question. If someone says you have to keep the Sabbath in order to follow Jesus - are they sinning?

You don't have to answer. rather think about it. The reality is that the answer will differ depending on the position you have. The answer is not the issue the issue is what does the bible teach we should or should not do.

 

[Grace777x70]

I am a Gentile grafted in though Christ. I agree that the Old is a revelation of Christ. I adhere to Isaiah 56 which connects the Sabbath to the bringing in of the Gentiles through Christ.

I am not substituting a physical day for Christ. I am simply accepting Christ and the day that he gives. The Sabbath precedes law it was recorded in the law yes but it came before law. It is a gift from Jesus to humanity.

I find this reasoning funny to suggest that because a spiritual lesson exists the physical does not matter. That same reasoning would do away with baptism physically. One could argue that true baptism is resting in the death and resurrection of Christ therefor physical baptism is no longer needed. That those who suggest one should be physically baptised are destroying the Gospel.

But here is the reality, one does not negate the other. The principle is alive in the physical. The Sabbath day is not done away with the Sabbath principle of rest. There is a physical truth given and made by God that fits and amplifies the spiritual truth. they are not at odds.

The Sabbath physical day is biblical and precedes law. God set a literal day and literally blessed it and literally set it apart for holy use. The spiritual lessons do not change a single one of those facts. The Physical was set up before sin was in the world so it is not a result of sin or a product of any problem. Thus Jesus does not change it or do anything to it by his work to save. If anything he amplifies it.

This is where I can't compute your reasoning. We both acknowledge the Spiritual. But I also acknowledged the physical reality. Jesus healed from sin and sickness. Not one or the other. By what biblical grounds do you negate the physical reality of Jesus work in creation concerning the Sabbath?

As I said a few times before - I don't care if someone wants to observe a day or a feast. I actually love to read about how Christ is the fulfillment of the feasts and I love the Hebrew culture and the ancient Hebrew language. They all speak of Christ. I love to listen to Hebrew teachers talk about Christ being in the law and the prophets.

If they start talking about having to go back to the Law now that we are in Christ - that is where the perversion of the gospel of Christ comes.

That I do not like and I will vehemently defend the gospel as I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for in "it" is the power of God for salvation and in "it" the righteousness of God is revealed. The righteous shall live by faith - faith in what Christ has already done for us.

Can you answer my question that I asked before? Maybe all this discussion is mute....lol


Let me ask you a question. If someone doesn't observe the Sabbath as outlined in the Old Covenant the way that you do - are they sinning?

Wait..I just saw where you are avoiding answering my question. It's a legitimate one.

 

[Grace777x70]

You also asked this:

Let me ask you a question. If someone doesn't observe the Sabbath as outlined in the Old Covenant the way that you do - are they sinning?

I will respond with a question. If someone says you have to keep the Sabbath in order to follow Jesus - are they sinning?

You don't have to answer. rather think about it. The reality is that the answer will differ depending on the position you have. The answer is not the issue the issue is what does the bible teach we should or should not do.

I have no problem answering that question above in blue that I highlighted as I believe that is the question.

Yes it is sinning against Christ well that is if you count perverting the gospel a sin. Do you count that as a sin? I most definitely do.

Paul here is talking about Judaizers that have come to tell people they must keep the law of Moses which includes circumcision. Circumcision even started way before the Law came - with Abraham. - See how it "looks" legitimate?

Paul says that they are perverting the gospel and that they are disturbing the gentile believers by trying to get them to go back to the law once they came to Christ.

Paul calls going back to the Law as "deserting Christ". And He says that it is also a distortion of the gospel.

Galatians 1:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Now do I think these Judaizers were sincere in wanting people to observe the Law of Moses? Yes- I do but they were deceived and in their deception they are trying to get gentile Christians to follow the law of Moses now.

This principle is no different then those that say "if we don't keep the Sabbath like in the Law or the feasts - then we are sinning. " It's a perversion of the gospel of Christ.

We can also agree to disagree....

 

[Grace777x70]

Anyway...I will just let this law thing sit where it is.....I am off to bed. Good night everyone and God bless you all!

 

[prove-all]

I actually love to read about how Christ is the fulfillment of the feasts .

We know Christ is our passover, the meaning of passover was and is fulfilled.

but what do the other 6 holy convocations or feasts mean?

you love to read them and say Christ fulfilled all the feasts ,

where is this in the bible, and how did Christ fulfill them?

do you even know what all the feasts are called?

 

[PaulMack]

The Jewish people counting every seven days to prove Saturday is the Sabbath is false because it was they who chose Saturday first to be their Sabbath day. Any fool can start counting from Sunday to end up with Saturday. And it was fools who did this.

Since you disciplemike cannot show any Scriptures where God has said Saturday is the Sabbath, we True Christians therefore can keep Sunday as our Sabbath day.

God never said which day was the Sabbath because the Sabbath was created for man to enjoy. We have the right to chose which day we want to keep as the Sabbath day.

All you have to do to prove me wrong disciplemike is show us where in the Scriptures God said Saturday is the Sabbath.

Therefore since you have no proof from God in the Scriptures that Saturday is the Sabbath, we do not have to accept your Sabbath day. Being free in Christ we can chose and keep the Sabbath day on Sunday instead.

So your whole premises of keeping the Law by keeping Saturday as the Sabbath falls down. It has no legs to stand on.

We are not under your laws disciplemike, we are under Grace. Like it or not, the Law was fulfilled by Jesus on the Cross.

 

[Dan_473]

brother, I keep 2 or 3 research project going all the time.
and
Hebrew culture IS Bible culture.
why would you say otherwise?

well, one reason to say otherwise is that the NT is written in Greek.

I'm surprised at how many Roots people seem unaware of this.

 

[prove-all]

Paul calls going back to the Law as "deserting Christ".
And He says that it is also a distortion of the gospel.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I
the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have worshiped
by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by opposing his own beliefs
that he taught to others.


Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

-here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.


(Romans 7:22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,

 

[BeyondET]

I find this quite intersting, Genesis account before sin in the Garden. God created Man on the sixth day and rested on the Seventh day.

If a person is conceived on a Wednesday and born on a Wednesday, of coarse the conceive part only God knows the exact time of day. We can't know the exact conceive day or time of day...

so let's just say a person is born on Wednesday,, does Thursday or six days later become their personal sabbath technically Thursday is the day after they were born. Or does the person fall in line of tradition of the coming Saturday or Sunday will be their sabbath. People are born everyday of the week yet it's only Saturday or Sunday regarded as a sabbath a day of rest for everyone. does the bible point exactly to Saturday or Sunday theses days in 7 day period equaling a week become a persons sabbath day.

 

[Grace777x70]

I find this quite intersting, Genesis account before sin in the Garden. God created Man on the sixth day and rested on the Seventh day.

If a person is conceived on a Wednesday and born on a Wednesday, of coarse the conceive part only God knows the exact time of day. We can't know the exact conceive day or time of day...

so let's just say a person is born on Wednesday,, does Thursday or six days later become their personal sabbath technically Thursday is the day after they were born. Or does the person fall in line of tradition of the coming Saturday or Sunday will be their sabbath. People are born everyday of the week yet it's only Saturday or Sunday regarded as a sabbath a day of rest for everyone. does the bible point exactly to Saturday or Sunday theses days in 7 day period equaling a week become a persons sabbath day.

That is so true..great insight.

The reality is that the day of the Jewish Sabbath day in the Law is totally irrelevant to the Christian who is not under the Law, we have died to the Law and the fact that Christ is our true Sabbath rest!

- this puts all this foolishness of which day of the week it is and everything else that goes with foolish disputes about the Law is just a waste of time and the enemy uses this nonsense to get us focused on the Law and not Christ as can be seen by the numerous "Sabbath day" threads.

We should be avoiding these useless distractions.

We should be talking about Christ - not things we do in our flesh from an Old Covenant that is now obsolete.

Titus 3:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

 

[garee]

Again, there were Jewish historians already at work in the 1st century. It is not prehistoric.
We are keeping the same day the Messiah kept. (the day we call Saturday - actually Friday sundown until Saturday sundown)
I hope this helps.

What do Jewish historians have to do with the commandment of God who instructs us to study to show our approved on God by rightly dividing His words? Are you insinuating we need a man to teach us and therefore promoting the ideology of the antichrist? ++

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and “ye need not that any man teach you”: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1Jo 2:27

 

[pottersclay]

Mike, our walk is a walk of faith, our hope is in things unseen, our passion is the love of Christ, our worship is in spirit and in truth. We are the new creation as I told you before. The common ground is Christ as our redeemer but when it comes to the law we must protest the necessity of it.

 

[Vdp]

The Law has been fulfilled by Jesus on the Cross. Today we are under Grace, not under the Law.

You can try to keep the Law, but you will fail completely. The Law was to show us we cannot keep the Law.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The Law has been fulfilled by Jesus on the Cross. Today we are under Grace, not under the Law.

You can try to keep the Law, but you will fail completely. The Law was to show us we cannot keep the Law.

Grace was not a new concept just as the law was not done away with by Jesus on the cross. This is man made doctrine and not Biblical brother.

 

[Grace777x70]

The Law has not been done away with. It is that we Christians are "have died to the Law" SO THAT we could be joined to another - Christ Himself. The Law is made for the unrighteous and NOT for the righteous. 1 Tim. 1:9 We are the righteous ones in Christ.

The Christian has died to the Law, been released from the Law, and is not under the Law any more and the Law is NOT of faith. It can't get much plainer then that.

Died to the Law:

Romans 7:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

( bearing fruit for God is NOT based on the Law but based on our union with Christ Himself )

Been released from the Law:

Romans 7:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Not under the Law:

Romans 6:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
The Law is NOT of faith: The righteous shall live by faith - faith in what Christ has done.

Galatians 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

( If people are going to live by the Law - they need to live by them - every Law - not pick and choose to water down the Law to make it seem "do-able". James says to break one law is to be guilty of the whole law )

 

[PaulMack]

The Law has been fulfilled by Jesus. We are no longer under the Law, but instead we are under Grace.

Why are people trying to put themselves back under the Law????? Do they not know the Law can save no one???

I believe we are entering into the End times. The time when Satan will rule and will demand we be back under the Law!

 

[pottersclay]

The law required blood...the law required death....both were paid in full at Calvary.

I think as a reminder that Christ did not do it for his sake but for ours. He was the innocent found guilty...we are the guilty that become innocent.

I think the history of the law speaks for itself. Imo Israel was no closer to God in the book of Malachi than they were a few steps out of Egypt.