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heavenly_bound
Guest
yes, an OT scripture can be used, but only in light of the new!! in other words, one can look into the OT, but it must be done so, through the lens of the NT( the accomplished work of Christ)
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OK, now we have the 'lens' of the NT, which being interpreted is, "how I see it at the time."
How convenient..... First make a rule with a loophole in it, then exploit that loophole to no end, all the while telling dissenters that rule stands. Kinda hard to lose that way, eh?
That statement is so full of loopholes you could drive a car thru it. HG'ers should call their beliefs "swiss cheese theology", 'cause it's so full of loopholes they can run in & out of.
That statement is so full of loopholes you could drive a car thru it. HG'ers should call their beliefs "swiss cheese theology", 'cause it's so full of loopholes they can run in & out of.
Well, it's sad that you think that. I don't understand why you call it HG (hyper grace?) in an undignified manner, though. Grace and truth came with Jesus Christ, why the insult?
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ladylynn
Guest
The IVP New Testament Commentary
The Leper Has Perfect Trust in Jesus' Power (8:2)
He knows Jesus is able to make him clean if he wants to; he is not using if you are willing as a religious way of saying, "I doubt that you can, but I would be happy if you might do something for me anyway." Yet the text demonstrates, as has been already noted, that his trust in Jesus' power is not presumption either.
Doubting Jesus' love for himself is exactly that..... doubt & unbelief. So, no, he didn't doubt Jesus' love. He understands Jesus' authority & that there's no "automatic" "He will do it because I ask".
Even then there was no "name it & claim it."
It comes down to what kind of relationship does a child have with their Father. Is it one where the child would be afraid to presume upon the Father's care and concern for him? Does the child feel free to sit on his dad's lap and hug his neck and snuggle in for a story? Is the child secure in knowing the father would not turn him away for being a nuisance or getting in the way of the Father's "more important" concerns? Does the child know that "he" is so important to the Father that He would stop what He was doing and listen to the child's concerns and want to see the child secure and happy.
When I presume upon my Daddy-Father-God I have an assurance and a confidence that He loves me and cares about what I'm caring about. Even though I'm one of billions of His children., He treats me as if I'm the only one talking to Him. I have His full attention. Presuming that we are loved is a very good thing and something that the Lord wants us to do. To have full confidence and assurance that we are loved and cared about. That is how we move forward in the faith., because without faith it is impossible to please Him. Having high expectations of how much He loves us and acting on those expectations by faith is what we are called to do. Stepping out without fear unlike the rest of the world who do not have God as their Father.
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ladylynn
Guest
Just think if you had a child that was fearful of you. You wanted to show him your love and affection but the child runs away uncomfortable with your loving advances. The child won't trust you and will not ask you for anything.
You want to provide for your child and give him good food and give him a safe and secure home life but he will not listen to you. He feels no good assurances that you are good or loving. Your child hangs out in his room away from you and is more comfortable that way. He thinks you are going to turn on him should he let his guard down and trust you. So instead the child stays away at what he believes is a safe distance.
Meanwhile you know that what the child considers a safe distance is a danger zone and the child is trusting people who don't love him at all and seek to hurt him. You know you have the answer to all your child needs but he just wont come to you. He goes to others instead who will ultimately hurt him.
This is what we do to God when we don't trust Him with our lives. He loves us the BEST and we trust Him the least. And then satan has won a great battle for our minds. We would end up not living a full and deeply satisfying and spiritual life with our loving Heavenly Father when we listen to the lies of the enemy. he lies to us about how the Heavenly Father is not interested in our minuscule little lives so we have to take care of ourselves to the best of our ability. So here comes religion right on Que., be strong in self and don't bother God with our petty little lives. God will somehow appreciate you not bothering Him and doing it yourself. NOOOOO That is not our Heavenly Father at all.
You want to provide for your child and give him good food and give him a safe and secure home life but he will not listen to you. He feels no good assurances that you are good or loving. Your child hangs out in his room away from you and is more comfortable that way. He thinks you are going to turn on him should he let his guard down and trust you. So instead the child stays away at what he believes is a safe distance.
Meanwhile you know that what the child considers a safe distance is a danger zone and the child is trusting people who don't love him at all and seek to hurt him. You know you have the answer to all your child needs but he just wont come to you. He goes to others instead who will ultimately hurt him.
This is what we do to God when we don't trust Him with our lives. He loves us the BEST and we trust Him the least. And then satan has won a great battle for our minds. We would end up not living a full and deeply satisfying and spiritual life with our loving Heavenly Father when we listen to the lies of the enemy. he lies to us about how the Heavenly Father is not interested in our minuscule little lives so we have to take care of ourselves to the best of our ability. So here comes religion right on Que., be strong in self and don't bother God with our petty little lives. God will somehow appreciate you not bothering Him and doing it yourself. NOOOOO That is not our Heavenly Father at all.
That statement is so full of loopholes you could drive a car thru it. HG'ers should call their beliefs "swiss cheese theology", 'cause it's so full of loopholes they can run in & out of.
That's just how some people react to the truth of scripture when it "conflicts" with their religious upbringing and teachings. They have to malign it somehow. And to think there are ministers that exhibit this type of behavior that are actually maligning the grace of Christ toward us.
God's grace is indeed "hyper - super abounding" - but I know what you mean by some people that use it in a disparaging way. They are left with their mockings and attempts at "baiting" to cause strife and divisions so that part we just ignore and leave it all in the hands of the Lord.
It's best to ignore them when they exhibit this type of behavior and let the Lord reveal things to them.
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You lack understanding. I understood what she said and im just a hay seed country boy without much larnin'.
Much of the false perception of God to many are because of the false representatives in the organized 'church' that have turned His plan into a den of thieves for control and financial gain. Where have we seen this movie before? Oh yea. Matt.23, the pastors in Jerusalem.
How can a broken human being, look at that mess and not take away from it a distorted view of God. Pay day is coming boys and girls. Jesus with a cat o nine tails.
I'm not insulting grace..... hypergrace is no grace at all.
Not being honest with the people to bewitch them is undignified. Satan is undignified.
Nooo..... it comes down to proper interpretation of scripture, not mixing carnal feelings or interpretation into it.
Knowing the truth about God's love for us fills us up to the fullness of God.
Religion would have us to believe it's all about what "you do"...instead of what Christ has done for us and it is all because of the love and grace of God towards us. He loves us dearly and unconditionally - religion hates this.
Ephesians 3:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
It is vitally important for us believers to know the love of God for us. Believers are in Christ and we are in this world as He is now.
1 John 4:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him
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[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
Religion would have us to believe it's all about what "you do"...instead of what Christ has done for us and it is all because of the love and grace of God towards us. He loves us dearly and unconditionally - religion hates this.
Ephesians 3:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
It is vitally important for us believers to know the love of God for us. Believers are in Christ and we are in this world as He is now.
1 John 4:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him
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[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
He is trying to get your goat, and to get you to react.
These people do not know what we believe, because they refuse to listen, They have preconceived ideas.. and that is where they get their information.
You can tell him until you rblue in the face, they will not believe you and continue to slander you.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Amen sis.
Best just to ignore them, They attack without provocation. They slander what they do not know or understand, and twist and turn what others say, anything to make themselves look good..
Let the lawyers and legalists continue in their folley. The battle is not our it is Gods..
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I guess you are undignified then, And also by definition a hypocrite.
Because your not being honest with anyone, you are doing what you always do and slandering them, then twisting what they say to make yourself look good.
Please. Take your attacks elsewhere,, You want to be honest, and with an open heart understand what people really believe, We will tell you. Until then,, All your doing is making yourself look bad..
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
God is love.
Jesus is the WORD.
You cannot know the love of God unless you discover who God is in the word. When God's word is twisted, no love can be found.
Even in the OT we see God's love. The OT an example to us according to the NT.
Yep we do.
We see David called a man after gods own heart before he commits his grave sins. We see abraham called righteous, before he did one work, and before he committed his sins.
We see grace and eternal security through faith in God all through the OT.
we also see your legalism, and many people fooled into self righteousness, and never finding the grace of God..
You have no idea what you're saying. OSAS is absolutely against the OT because it's not there. As your 'ole buddy says....."NONSENSE!"
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FreeNChrist
Guest
God is love.
Jesus is the WORD.
You cannot know the love of God unless you discover who God is in the word. When God's word is twisted, no love can be found.
Even in the OT we see God's love. The OT an example to us according to the NT.
That is all ironically twisted.
As far as Hypergrace, I had never heard the term until the last year, when the devotees of Joseph Prince started flooding this forum. It is their term, not something those of us who strongly disagree with this wrong doctrine have coined. It is based on faulty hermeneutics, including the ONE time that hyper grace (super-abounding) is mentioned. You just cannot make a doctrine based on one verse, OT or NT, and the entire foundation of this movement is based on one verse, which would not stand up in any historical or modern study of theology.
By failing to see the incredible grace of God in the OT, this cult has denigrated Christ and the Bible. The OT is the story of Jesus Christ, and his amazing grace. Surely Abraham, Moses, Joshua, King David and all the Old Testament saints knew the grace of God! Or the Ninevites! Not even chosen, yet when God warned them, through the very graceless Jonah, and they REPENTED of their sins, and God relented and did not "smite" them - meaning wipe them out - that was the most amazing demonstration of grace. They had no faith, but God gave them the grace to repent and they did.
Oh, there is that nasty little word that I saw a thread the other day, with people twisting the meaning of. Repentance just means to change your mind! Really?? Change from what to what? Oh, from going to the grocery store versus the farmer's market! WHAT?? What does that have to do with the Biblical account of repentance? Right - bad hermeneutics - picking and choosing verses, ignoring the ones that say thing they don't like, misinterpreting the Greek again.
I was all for this hypergrace lie, until I realized that the traditional and Biblical definitions of words like "sin," "repentance," and even grace had been redefined and changed radically into something that was not from God. People criticize me, say I had defected to the enemy, when in fact this new teaching that has swept the forum, and is pounded on by certain people daily is the lie. And hey, I know some people won't like it when I say, I have a LOT of Bible training, including Biblical languages, but more important, hermeneutics (Bible interpretation!) and theology, but it does help me recognize "junk" or "folk" theology when I see it. I wish everyone could have a course on hermeneutics. I took my Bible interpretation from a seminary which had 5 different denominations - Evangelical Free, Mennonite Brethren, Pentecostal, 2 Baptist denominations. And I transferred the credit to another Baptist denomination. And they all agree on the basics of how to correctly divide the word of God.
This forum has run amok! People are now at the point where they are implying that anyone who does not believe in "hypergrace" does not believe that Jesus loves them! Wow! Just wow!
Jesus' love was the ONLY reason I was saved! Jesus' love was the only reason I was able to continue to walk with him. Jesus' love is what give me hope in a crippled body! Jesus' love is my hope for eternity! God saved me - I did not save myself. So no, I will never lose my salvation, nor any other true believer who continues to abide or remain in Christ. (See John 15 - those branches that were prune and thrown into the fire did not throw themselves in!)
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him would not perish, but have everlasting love." John 3:16
I fear greatly for the people who are propagating this whole lie of the redefined gospel according to JP and hypergrace. They are deceiving even the elect.
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." Matt 24:24
By failing to see the incredible grace of God in the OT, this cult has denigrated Christ and the Bible. The OT is the story of Jesus Christ, and his amazing grace. Surely Abraham, Moses, Joshua, King David and all the Old Testament saints knew the grace of God! Or the Ninevites! Not even chosen, yet when God warned them, through the very graceless Jonah, and they REPENTED of their sins, and God relented and did not "smite" them - meaning wipe them out - that was the most amazing demonstration of grace. They had no faith, but God gave them the grace to repent and they did.
Oh, there is that nasty little word that I saw a thread the other day, with people twisting the meaning of. Repentance just means to change your mind! Really?? Change from what to what? Oh, from going to the grocery store versus the farmer's market! WHAT?? What does that have to do with the Biblical account of repentance? Right - bad hermeneutics - picking and choosing verses, ignoring the ones that say thing they don't like, misinterpreting the Greek again.
I was all for this hypergrace lie, until I realized that the traditional and Biblical definitions of words like "sin," "repentance," and even grace had been redefined and changed radically into something that was not from God. People criticize me, say I had defected to the enemy, when in fact this new teaching that has swept the forum, and is pounded on by certain people daily is the lie. And hey, I know some people won't like it when I say, I have a LOT of Bible training, including Biblical languages, but more important, hermeneutics (Bible interpretation!) and theology, but it does help me recognize "junk" or "folk" theology when I see it. I wish everyone could have a course on hermeneutics. I took my Bible interpretation from a seminary which had 5 different denominations - Evangelical Free, Mennonite Brethren, Pentecostal, 2 Baptist denominations. And I transferred the credit to another Baptist denomination. And they all agree on the basics of how to correctly divide the word of God.
This forum has run amok! People are now at the point where they are implying that anyone who does not believe in "hypergrace" does not believe that Jesus loves them! Wow! Just wow!
Jesus' love was the ONLY reason I was saved! Jesus' love was the only reason I was able to continue to walk with him. Jesus' love is what give me hope in a crippled body! Jesus' love is my hope for eternity! God saved me - I did not save myself. So no, I will never lose my salvation, nor any other true believer who continues to abide or remain in Christ. (See John 15 - those branches that were prune and thrown into the fire did not throw themselves in!)
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him would not perish, but have everlasting love." John 3:16
I fear greatly for the people who are propagating this whole lie of the redefined gospel according to JP and hypergrace. They are deceiving even the elect.
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." Matt 24:24
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