Building upon a lie
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heavenly_bound
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Did he remain with the scriptures only? didn't Paul teach him the fulfillment of the scriptures(OT) that he had when he was a child? by the way all Jews who became Christians had the scriptures(OT) before they were taught the gospel.
You may be wondering why i call the OT scriptures; yes the scriptures, the Word of God and the gospel,are not the same thing.
The scriptures(OT), points to the Word of God(Christ), while the gospel explains the person and work of Christ!
The reason why the proponents of the law system are always confused is bc they don't understand these differences. They just mixed everything in one pot!!!
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pottersclay
Guest
Ever notice in the old testament "they died in their sins"....and in the new testament death was rejection of Jesus?
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ladylynn
Guest
A one time believer in Jesus Christ who then turns from the faith, and then sins willfully is still a future sin from the cross, no? So thanks for proving the point of the OP.Stick to the words of God and not catchy misleading phrases of men that are not based on the whole of the Truth according to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
We all "sin willfully" in our hearts and minds every day. If someone makes you angry at work for instance and you are not loving them but wouldn't mind seeing them be fired.. that is sinning. It pops up in our minds to be rid of that person and be rid of the problem.
Just like if you are driving down the road and someone cuts you off with their car and almost kills you and your family AND THEN has the audacity to flip you the 'sign' (!!!) what is your first feeling? Is it love and compassion for that person? I doubt that.
The answer to your questions have been put on these threads so often but you are not considering them. You ask the question and when the question is answered... you reject it. But we each have to read the Bible with certain things in mind. Many great Bible teachers and Bible believing Christians who love the Word of God know that we need to address who the verses are talking to., what the circumstances were and when it was written. Not all the Bible is written "to" us but all the Bible is written for our learning.
Every single word in the Bible is there for a reason.
Rightly dividing the Word of Truth is making those distinctions because if you read things in Hebrews that are meant for the Hebrews during the time of the early church you are mis applying those verses. When many Jews were still on the fence about still doing the blood sacrifices even after Jesus had died and rose again. Those Jews had a major hard time switching over.
The only sacrifice for sin is Jesus Christ. There remains no other sacrifice if they go to sacrificing the bulls and goats again and reject the truth of Christ's death for sin., There is no other way to come to God. Not even the "old ways" they were raised up on and believed in so whole heartedly like their fathers and their fathers before them. It was good and right to follow the law back then.
These Jews were raised on the good old religion of their fathers and the Scriptures. Their lives and their families and children's lives were raised on these truths of the law., All their lives revolved around the laws. How could they reject those laws and believe on Jesus Christ????? The writer of Hebrews was teaching them the dire NEED to switch over to Jesus Christ as the only sacrifice for sin now.
If they reject Christ, only judgment remains.
To apply "sinning willfully" to mean should any of us sin willfully today "there remains no sacrifice for our sins" is totally off the mark of truth in the Bible. That would also mean should you have one bad thought, one moment of sinful indulgence of thought or body, one swear word, one extra donut even!!! There remains NO more sacrifice for your selfishness and willful sin. You are doomed forever and the blood of Jesus can't save you.
How insane is that?? It doesn't give the grace and truth of Christ any power or credit for doing for us what we could not do for ourselves. It gives us a certain expectation of judgment and the Bible says we no longer have that over our heads anymore. Can you dare believe that Jesus has made a way of escape for you? That His love (grace) has taken care of the power of sin in your life so that you are free to follow Him without fear of condemnation?
my sister, if I am not mistaken, the children of Israel heard the gospel when they were in the wilderness, 1500 years before Christ was born.
Now, don't go off on a rant. I am just telling you what Scripture says. O course they needed a Messiah, just like we do. The good news (or gospel), is that God made a way!!!
Timothy was brought up as a Gentile too so he would have had no dealings with the Jewish scriptures until he came to Christ.
Acts 16 tells us about Timothy who was the son of a Greek father and a Jewish mother who had become a believer in Jesus. However, Luke here provides very few details about this relationship. Were his parents still living?
Why was Timothy not circumcised as a child? Was Timothy a Greek or a Jew? Luke does not deem it necessary to answer any of these questions save to specify that Timothy was not circumcised.
If Timothy was not circumcised as a child then he wouldn't be listening to scriptures until he came to Christ because all good Jewish law followers did what the law of Moses said to do, especially since the temple was still standing until 70 AD. That's what things look like to me anyway.
Just a little bit of trivia...
Acts 16 tells us about Timothy who was the son of a Greek father and a Jewish mother who had become a believer in Jesus. However, Luke here provides very few details about this relationship. Were his parents still living?
Why was Timothy not circumcised as a child? Was Timothy a Greek or a Jew? Luke does not deem it necessary to answer any of these questions save to specify that Timothy was not circumcised.
If Timothy was not circumcised as a child then he wouldn't be listening to scriptures until he came to Christ because all good Jewish law followers did what the law of Moses said to do, especially since the temple was still standing until 70 AD. That's what things look like to me anyway.
Just a little bit of trivia...
all that sounds fine, captain.
but the Bible says that Timothy knew the Scriptures, even from when he was a child.
I can't tell you how to reconcile that with your intelligence.
I can just tell you it is in the Bible, and I believe it.
Ok. I was wrong. It happens. It doesn't bother me to say so, because my integrity is important to me.Originally Posted by heavenly_bound
in addition , non can say Jesus is Lord if not by the Spirit!!
Check out this scripture...it's a "goodie"...
1 Corinthians 12:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
No harm done...None of us gets it right all the time....that's why we need each other in the body of Christ...
I guess his family were not a very good Jew then....perhaps they skipped that part in the reading of the Law?....altho Timothy's father being a Gentile is not likely to have been reading any Jewish scriptures.... I wonder if back then if the father was a Gentile and the mother Jewish...which would Timothy be known by?....being a Jew or a Gentile?
The word here for "child" is for a new born babe too - perhaps Paul is referring to " as new born babes desire the sincere milk of the word so that you may grow "
His family did not follow the law of Moses and have him circumcised but thank God Timothy is with the Lord now and we can talk with him one day and it is all because of our Lord Jesus Christ!.....
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I guess his family were not a very good Jew then....perhaps they skipped that part in the reading of the Law?....altho Timothy's father being a Gentile is not likely to have been reading any Jewish scriptures.... I wonder if back then if the father was a Gentile and the mother Jewish...which would Timothy be known by?....being a Jew or a Gentile?
The word here for "child" is for a new born babe too - perhaps Paul is referring to " as new born babes desire the sincere milk of the word so that you may grow "
His family did not follow the law of Moses and have him circumcised but thank God Timothy is with the Lord now and we can talk with him one day and it is all because of our Lord Jesus Christ!.....
Timothy knew the Old Testament Scriptures, which are good for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness!!
Just for fun...look at all the times this Greek word for "child" was used in 2 Tim. 3:15 and you will find that it means a new born babe.
It is impossible for a new born babe to know the scriptures. It is used 8 times and every time it is a new born child - or in the actual womb itself - except for the last time it is used in scripture.
None of these scriptures can be said that at that age they were cognizant of anything - maybe just to breast feed....
1 Peter 2:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Personally I believe Paul was referring to Timothy's coming to Christ as a new born babe and from that time he was able to grow as he was in the scriptures - both from the Old Testament and from the teachings of Paul.
Timothy's family was not a good Jewish family at all because they did not obey the law of Moses - if they even knew about it. The mother most likely did....but that dog of Gentile father of Timothy's would not.. ...but everyone is free to believe what they want.
The New Testament truths trump the old testament shadows as the New Covenant reveals Christ's work for us. We have a great salvation in Christ our Lord!
Gee..... now what would you know about the"application" of a scripture? ROFL!!
You do that every day, & you accuse somebody else for doing it, LOL!
God's judgments are not bias, neither does He use different weights and measures when it come to judgment. The book of Ezekiel gives us some insight into who "dies in their sins" as it is those who do not depart from iniquity. Also notice what happens when the righteous turns back to sin according to the words of God.
Ezekiel 18:20-32
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."
Words of wisdom for sure.
That's what Grace 777x 70 also admits to as well, and I am grieved to hear such things. But like I said earlier, we should not try to speak for all others because of our own personal failings and sin. Also we should not try to twist and conform the words of God to fit into our own sinful image, but rather let the Word of God transform you into the image of God's Son.
I'm your huckleberry, and that's just my game.Yet here you are, chasing him down, & judging him. Maybe he should put you on ignore.
That's what Grace 777x 70 also admits to as well, and I am grieved to hear such things. But like I said earlier, we should not try to speak for all others because of our own personal failings and sin. Also we should not try to twist and conform the words of God to fit into our own sinful image, but rather let the Word of God transform you into the image of God's Son.
Ok....I want to take your religion for a test drive too. If you believe that the "wilful sinning" talked about in Hebrews 10 is not the sin of unbelief in Christ's sacrifice for sins but it is a sin that you did intentionally then....
Answer this question and it will reveal the truth about "wilful sinning".
Have you ever wilfully sinned?
Of course you have - so in your religion if the wilful sin is any other sin but unbelief in Christ - there remains no more sacrifice for sins and thus you will die with those sins still on you because Christ's sacrifice for those sins will not be for you.
God's Word reveals the Truth about willful sin, not your condition and opinion of it, nor mine.
Ok....I want to take your religion for a test drive too. If you believe that the "wilful sinning" talked about in Hebrews 10 is not the sin of unbelief in Christ's sacrifice for sins but it is a sin that you did intentionally then....
Answer this question and it will reveal the truth about "wilful sinning".
Have you ever wilfully sinned?
Of course you have - so in your religion if the wilful sin is any other sin but unbelief in Christ - there remains no more sacrifice for sins and thus you will die with those sins still on you because Christ's sacrifice for those sins will not be for you.
Stop dodging the question and be truthful to us.
Let's take your religion for a test drive to see what it really consists of.
Have you ever wilfully sinned?
Of course you have - so in your religion if the wilful sin is any other sin but unbelief in Christ - there remains no more sacrifice for sins and thus you will die with those sins still on you because Christ's sacrifice for those sins will not be for you.
Answer this question and it will reveal the truth about "wilful sinning".
Have you ever wilfully sinned?
Of course you have - so in your religion if the wilful sin is any other sin but unbelief in Christ - there remains no more sacrifice for sins and thus you will die with those sins still on you because Christ's sacrifice for those sins will not be for you.
God's Word reveals the Truth about willful sin, not your condition and opinion of it, nor mine.
Stop dodging the question and be truthful to us.
Let's take your religion for a test drive to see what it really consists of.
Have you ever wilfully sinned?
Of course you have - so in your religion if the wilful sin is any other sin but unbelief in Christ - there remains no more sacrifice for sins and thus you will die with those sins still on you because Christ's sacrifice for those sins will not be for you.
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I like how you try to answer for me in the above (sneaky), but you are the one who admitted repeatedly to willfully sinning. So judge yourself, or go for a test drive with your religion.