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so I so you spent you know when you spin pizza dough its kind of flattens out
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yeah it's wider in the middle and so earth throughout its life even when it
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formed it was spinning and got a little wider at the equator than it does at the
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polls so it's not actually a sphere it's an oblate and officially an oblate
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spheroid that's what we call it but not only that it's slightly wider below the
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equator than above the equator little chubbier little chubbier yeah cubbies a
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good ways like pear-shaped
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pear-shaped pear-shaped pear-shaped
[video=youtube;nTOE4Ar0Dfo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTOE4Ar0Dfo[/video]
Is he a liar? or where is this picture? If the "new" image is available then what were the "old" sphere images? WHAT IS THE LIE?
so I so you spent you know when you spin pizza dough its kind of flattens out
0:06
yeah it's wider in the middle and so earth throughout its life even when it
0:12
formed it was spinning and got a little wider at the equator than it does at the
0:17
polls so it's not actually a sphere it's an oblate and officially an oblate
0:22
spheroid that's what we call it but not only that it's slightly wider below the
0:27
equator than above the equator little chubbier little chubbier yeah cubbies a
0:31
good ways like pear-shaped
0:35
pear-shaped pear-shaped pear-shaped
[video=youtube;nTOE4Ar0Dfo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTOE4Ar0Dfo[/video]
Is he a liar? or where is this picture? If the "new" image is available then what were the "old" sphere images? WHAT IS THE LIE?
G
Hi All, Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it, this image is the generally accepted heliocentric model. { Yes - this picture fits into the overall heliocentric model. } (Obviously not to scale)
(Use vice-versa = summer/winter depending on you location on the Earth)
The reason they say seasons change is due to our position to the sun as the image shows, Notice the axis is ALWAYS pointing to Polaris.
In the SUMMER as we rotate west to east, the "sunsets" and "sunrises" make sense. We rotate DOWN (toward the sun) so the sun appears to be going UP for MORNING, and as we rotate UP (away from the sun) the sun appears to be going DOWN for EVENING.
Moving on to WINTER... Here, it is OPPOSITE, as we rotate UP (toward the sun) the sun would appear to be going DOWN (MORNING) and as we rotate DOWN (away from the sun) it would make the sun appear to go UP (EVENING). { Well, no - not exactly... It would still be sun UP in morning and DOWN in evening. However, the highest point of its travel would be in a more southern part of the sky. }
I think I stated that correctly, my brain and words sometimes don't like to mesh.
So, any ideas on this? Am I missing something?
I have posted this on a few forums and no one seems to want to help me out, or maybe no one can?
(Use vice-versa = summer/winter depending on you location on the Earth)
The reason they say seasons change is due to our position to the sun as the image shows, Notice the axis is ALWAYS pointing to Polaris.
In the SUMMER as we rotate west to east, the "sunsets" and "sunrises" make sense. We rotate DOWN (toward the sun) so the sun appears to be going UP for MORNING, and as we rotate UP (away from the sun) the sun appears to be going DOWN for EVENING.
Moving on to WINTER... Here, it is OPPOSITE, as we rotate UP (toward the sun) the sun would appear to be going DOWN (MORNING) and as we rotate DOWN (away from the sun) it would make the sun appear to go UP (EVENING). { Well, no - not exactly... It would still be sun UP in morning and DOWN in evening. However, the highest point of its travel would be in a more southern part of the sky. }
I think I stated that correctly, my brain and words sometimes don't like to mesh.
So, any ideas on this? Am I missing something?
I have posted this on a few forums and no one seems to want to help me out, or maybe no one can?
I am working on something [ related ] that I plan to "present" when I am finished with it. Hopefully it will be soon...
After seeing some of the flat earth arguments and videos on YouTube, for about a month I was undecided. There are many compelling arguments toward flat earth. Many things which we observe can be explained with certain flat earth models, and the idea of a flat earth is super cool. Kinda like the idea that the moon is actually an ancient abandoned observational space station.
The observation and argument about sunset vs sunmovingaway won it for me though.
Thanks for bringing me back to earth. I still wonder about the moon though.
The observation and argument about sunset vs sunmovingaway won it for me though.
Thanks for bringing me back to earth. I still wonder about the moon though.
Hi All, Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it, this image is the generally accepted heliocentric model. (Obviously not to scale)
(Use vice-versa = summer/winter depending on you location on the Earth)
The reason they say seasons change is due to our position to the sun as the image shows, Notice the axis is ALWAYS pointing to Polaris.
In the SUMMER as we rotate west to east, the "sunsets" and "sunrises" make sense. We rotate DOWN (toward the sun) so the sun appears to be going UP for MORNING, and as we rotate UP (away from the sun) the sun appears to be going DOWN for EVENING.
Moving on to WINTER... Here, it is OPPOSITE, as we rotate UP (toward the sun) the sun would appear to be going DOWN (MORNING) and as we rotate DOWN (away from the sun) it would make the sun appear to go UP (EVENING).
I think I stated that correctly, my brain and words sometimes don't like to mesh.
So, any ideas on this? Am I missing something?
I have posted this on a few forums and no one seems to want to help me out, or maybe no one can?
(Use vice-versa = summer/winter depending on you location on the Earth)
The reason they say seasons change is due to our position to the sun as the image shows, Notice the axis is ALWAYS pointing to Polaris.
In the SUMMER as we rotate west to east, the "sunsets" and "sunrises" make sense. We rotate DOWN (toward the sun) so the sun appears to be going UP for MORNING, and as we rotate UP (away from the sun) the sun appears to be going DOWN for EVENING.
Moving on to WINTER... Here, it is OPPOSITE, as we rotate UP (toward the sun) the sun would appear to be going DOWN (MORNING) and as we rotate DOWN (away from the sun) it would make the sun appear to go UP (EVENING).
I think I stated that correctly, my brain and words sometimes don't like to mesh.
So, any ideas on this? Am I missing something?
I have posted this on a few forums and no one seems to want to help me out, or maybe no one can?
yes, the sun appears to track across the sky at different angles according to what time of year it is. that is part of how places like stonehenge and so many others functioned as astronomical calendars: marking the solstices and equinoxes, which not only have to do with the proportion of daylight to night, and to seasons, but can be determined by the location of the sun in the sky.
here's an example of the a year's worth of pictures of the sun taken at the same time on different days.
what a picture like this will look like specifically depends on where on earth you are, but there is always a motion with two extremes - the solstices - and a crossing of the path the sun takes over the year. that 'crossing point' is shifted by perspective from the days the equinoxes occur depending on your latitude.
this is something that mankind who looks at the sky has noticed all over the world ever since written records were kept. evidence of this knowledge is found everywhere in all kinds of ancient places. just watch the sky all year, and you'll see it.
this ind of diagram is called an "analemma" if you want to search for more of them and to learn more about it.
not sure if this answers your question in particular, but it is related.
[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
try holding a tennis ball or something in your hand, with a spot marked on it representing where you live, and rotating it in a consistent way as you move it around a lamp. i think if you have a physical model of this to look at, then where you are getting befuddled trying to visualize it, and your spatial reasoning is failing, it will become clear, that to an observer on the earth, the sun always rises east and always sets west as the earth rotates and revolves, and always rises in the sky in the morning and sets at evening, even at the poles, though at certain times of year owing to the tilt of the axis, it may not rise above the horizon or set below the horizon at the poles for some period of time.
yes, the sun appears to track across the sky at different angles according to what time of year it is. that is part of how places like stonehenge and so many others functioned as astronomical calendars: marking the solstices and equinoxes, which not only have to do with the proportion of daylight to night, and to seasons, but can be determined by the location of the sun in the sky.
here's an example of the a year's worth of pictures of the sun taken at the same time on different days.
View attachment 160734
what a picture like this will look like specifically depends on where on earth you are, but there is always a motion with two extremes - the solstices - and a crossing of the path the sun takes over the year. that 'crossing point' is shifted by perspective from the days the equinoxes occur depending on your latitude.
View attachment 160735
this is something that mankind who looks at the sky has noticed all over the world ever since written records were kept. evidence of this knowledge is found everywhere in all kinds of ancient places. just watch the sky all year, and you'll see it.
this ind of diagram is called an "analemma" if you want to search for more of them and to learn more about it.
not sure if this answers your question in particular, but it is related.
[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
try holding a tennis ball or something in your hand, with a spot marked on it representing where you live, and rotating it in a consistent way as you move it around a lamp. i think if you have a physical model of this to look at, then where you are getting befuddled trying to visualize it, and your spatial reasoning is failing, it will become clear, that to an observer on the earth, the sun always rises east and always sets west as the earth rotates and revolves, and always rises in the sky in the morning and sets at evening, even at the poles, though at certain times of year owing to the tilt of the axis, it may not rise above the horizon or set below the horizon at the poles for some period of time.
View attachment 160736
What I'm not understanding is sunrise/sunset. Is the rotation not what creates the "effect" of the sun "going down" and "going up" below/above the horizon respectively? If so... Look at your image, we'll only use what is visible there. The Earth is rotating "up diagonally" for sunrise in winter. The Earth is rotating "up diagonally" for sunset in summer. When the Earth is rotating "up diagonally" shouldn't the effect we see be the the sun setting/"going down"? This "works" for summer but not winter. (winter effect being the sun going DOWN for sunrise).
Can this be explained in simple terms? I asked my kid who is in 10th grade and he said he's never heard of this.
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up and down is relative to where you are. which is on the surface of the earth somewhere, not out in space somewhere above the plane of the planets orbit.
up and down are directions relative to the gravitational force we experience. they are not 'north' and 'south' -- they are towards the center of the earth ((down)) and away from the center of the earth ((up)).
so "up" is where the sun is, when it is visible. it is visible when the part of the planet you are on has rotated around so that part is facing towards the sun.
i.e.at that time, "up" is where the sun is, away from the center of the earth.
before the sun appears to "rise" -- no matter what time of year it is -- whatever part of the earth you are located on is in the earth's shadow, and the whole earth, including that point you are standing on, is rotating in a direction we call east.
at the moment that the sun first becomes visible from your location, it's toward your east, and it's low on the horizon, not up in the sky. you keep rotating towards it, wherever you are, no matter what time of year it is, until roughly noon. then you start rotating away from it. at roughly non, the sun is as close to being directly "up" as it's going to be, relative to your location. after that point in time, your location continues rotating relative to the sun, so the sun appears to be more and more westerly, and closer and closer to your local horizon.
none of this has anything to do with summer/winter. it's all completely an artifact of the earth rotating relative to the sun.
the effect of winter / summer on how you see the sun in the sky is how high up in the sky you see it. because of the tilt of the earth's rotational axis, the sun appears higher in summer and lower in winter.
the two images above show the path of the sun that any observer sees from the face of the globe, except for very near the poles, where because of the tilt, you may have the sun in the sky for 24 hours, or not in the sky at all for a 24 hours out of a day, during the extremes of summer and winter.
this is what we observe when we watch the sun. it matches perfectly what we should see if the earth is a globe, rotating on a tilted axis, revolving around the sun in a one-year orbit.
you might note that it is not at all what is predicted to be observed by the flat earth model.
what the 'flat earth' predicts is that every observer everywhere on earth should see the sun in the sky at all times, every season of the year -- the sun should never set according to the flat earth model. so merely watching the sun rise and set every day completely obliterates all flat earth arguments. it's just wrong, completely wrong -- and all you have to do to know that as an absolute certainty is watch the sun come up and go down.
Having been in the personal computer field since its infancy in the early 80's, I can assure you that among the non-religious, and especially the irreligious, in the computer industry, there is still quite a debate about that very issue when hours, or days, worth of work inexplicably vanishes in the midst of a time critical project. LOL
I don't really understand your misunderstanding, but perhaps you are not taking into account that the sun never goes beyond the Tropic of Cancer (23 degrees north) in the northern hemisphere or beyond the Tropic of Capricorn (23 degrees south) in the southern hemisphere?
As mentioned earlier, using a ball, sphere, globe or even another (unlit) light bulb with a mark on it and rotating it around a lamp might help you visualize the solution to your question.
I would be interested in the results of your experiment, if you are so inclined.
Inaccuracies abound...!
You need better pictures, posthuman, if you are going to properly represent a globe earth model.
You need better pictures, posthuman, if you are going to properly represent a globe earth model.
Would you please describe those inaccuracies? It is easy to claim someone who disagrees with you is wrong.
But those who seek wisdom desire to understand how they are wrong. Therefore, if the flat earth is the better explanation for the truth of the world around us, it is the responsibility of those who promote it to "enlighten" those who are "deceived" into accepting a "scientific" (newtonian) worldview.
If no effort is made to justify ones assertions of a flat earth, then those who process life rationally and logically cannot accept it. (Myself included.)
Therefore, I ask again, what is the purpose of you making the assertion that the world is flat?
Do you truly believe the earth is flat? If so, can you give any scientific evidence of your belief? (For instance, describe the "inaccuracies" you mentioned.)
Is the purpose of your original post to share the "truth" you believe and help lead others from deception? Then prove it.
Or do you know better and have some other reason for making such a silly claim?
~See "inline"
up and down is relative to where you are.
~The "up" / "down" I am referring to is the equator and tropic lines rotation "up diagonally rotating toward (sunrise) the sun" / "down diagonally rotating away (sunset) from the sun" the sun being the point of reference for WINTER here. (looking at the image you posted and adding equator/tropics).
Then opposite for summer "down diagonally rotating toward (sunrise) the sun" / "up diagonally rotating away (sunset) from the sun".
which is on the surface of the earth somewhere, not out in space somewhere above the plane of the planets orbit.
~I am speaking of the model, not a specific location.
up and down are directions relative to the gravitational force we experience. they are not 'north' and 'south' -- they are towards the center of the earth ((down)) and away from the center of the earth ((up)).
so "up" is where the sun is, when it is visible. it is visible when the part of the planet you are on has rotated around so that part is facing towards the sun.
i.e.at that time, "up" is where the sun is, away from the center of the earth.
before the sun appears to "rise" -- no matter what time of year it is -- whatever part of the earth you are located on is in the earth's shadow, and the whole earth, including that point you are standing on, is rotating in a direction we call east.
at the moment that the sun first becomes visible from your location, it's toward your east, and it's low on the horizon, not up in the sky. you keep rotating towards it, wherever you are, no matter what time of year it is, until roughly noon. then you start rotating away from it. at roughly non, the sun is as close to being directly "up" as it's going to be, relative to your location. after that point in time, your location continues rotating relative to the sun, so the sun appears to be more and more westerly, and closer and closer to your local horizon.
none of this has anything to do with summer/winter. it's all completely an artifact of the earth rotating relative to the sun.
the effect of winter / summer on how you see the sun in the sky is how high up in the sky you see it. because of the tilt of the earth's rotational axis, the sun appears higher in summer and lower in winter.
~Does the way the Earth rotates in relation to the sun "down diagonally toward the sun" ("down" making the sun appear to go up at sunrise) account for the sun appearing to us to go up OR is there another explanation for our perception of the sun appearing to do this?
If that is NOT why we see the sun go up (because the Earth rotates "down") and why we see the sun go down (because the Earth rotates back "up"), what exactly is the reason?
If that IS why we see this, then I will proceed to ask my question again (hopefully clearly as I have a hard time with explaining my brain).
View attachment 161007
the two images above show the path of the sun that any observer sees from the face of the globe, except for very near the poles, where because of the tilt, you may have the sun in the sky for 24 hours, or not in the sky at all for a 24 hours out of a day, during the extremes of summer and winter.
~I hope I explained what I meant above, miscommunication is all too easy.
this is what we observe when we watch the sun. it matches perfectly what we should see if the earth is a globe, rotating on a tilted axis, revolving around the sun in a one-year orbit.
you might note that it is not at all what is predicted to be observed by the flat earth model.
~It actually is predicted on FE and matches BOTH models IF you have the right info on BOTH, my question that I'm trying to get answered should give more ground to one or the other. (Note: I don't subscribe to ANY model, just curious as FE has as much evidence as GE so far in my searching, the Bible is what led me to ask questions)
what the 'flat earth' predicts is that every observer everywhere on earth should see the sun in the sky at all times, every season of the year -- the sun should never set according to the flat earth model. so merely watching the sun rise and set every day completely obliterates all flat earth arguments. it's just wrong, completely wrong -- and all you have to do to know that as an absolute certainty is watch the sun come up and go down.
~I think this is an inaccurate statement, you may have received incorrect information on this.
If anyone uses the "Flat Earth Society" for research, I have found a lot of their material is DIS/MIS information that doesn't add up IMO).
The sun on FE is smaller and closer while the circumference of the FE is large enough to accommodate the sun circling and illuminating "parts" of the Earth while keeping other "parts" in the dark. Think of a flashlight (just to illustrate) turned on with the lit disc down on a table (as to see NO light), as you pull it up away from the table the illumination "grows" the farther away you pull it from the table. The sun is close enough above FE allowing for the illumination to be "centralized"
At anyrate, If ANYONE can answer my question I would be sooo grateful (that is if I can ever ask it in an understandable manner).
up and down is relative to where you are.
~The "up" / "down" I am referring to is the equator and tropic lines rotation "up diagonally rotating toward (sunrise) the sun" / "down diagonally rotating away (sunset) from the sun" the sun being the point of reference for WINTER here. (looking at the image you posted and adding equator/tropics).
Then opposite for summer "down diagonally rotating toward (sunrise) the sun" / "up diagonally rotating away (sunset) from the sun".
which is on the surface of the earth somewhere, not out in space somewhere above the plane of the planets orbit.
~I am speaking of the model, not a specific location.
up and down are directions relative to the gravitational force we experience. they are not 'north' and 'south' -- they are towards the center of the earth ((down)) and away from the center of the earth ((up)).
so "up" is where the sun is, when it is visible. it is visible when the part of the planet you are on has rotated around so that part is facing towards the sun.
i.e.at that time, "up" is where the sun is, away from the center of the earth.
before the sun appears to "rise" -- no matter what time of year it is -- whatever part of the earth you are located on is in the earth's shadow, and the whole earth, including that point you are standing on, is rotating in a direction we call east.
at the moment that the sun first becomes visible from your location, it's toward your east, and it's low on the horizon, not up in the sky. you keep rotating towards it, wherever you are, no matter what time of year it is, until roughly noon. then you start rotating away from it. at roughly non, the sun is as close to being directly "up" as it's going to be, relative to your location. after that point in time, your location continues rotating relative to the sun, so the sun appears to be more and more westerly, and closer and closer to your local horizon.
none of this has anything to do with summer/winter. it's all completely an artifact of the earth rotating relative to the sun.
the effect of winter / summer on how you see the sun in the sky is how high up in the sky you see it. because of the tilt of the earth's rotational axis, the sun appears higher in summer and lower in winter.
~Does the way the Earth rotates in relation to the sun "down diagonally toward the sun" ("down" making the sun appear to go up at sunrise) account for the sun appearing to us to go up OR is there another explanation for our perception of the sun appearing to do this?
If that is NOT why we see the sun go up (because the Earth rotates "down") and why we see the sun go down (because the Earth rotates back "up"), what exactly is the reason?
If that IS why we see this, then I will proceed to ask my question again (hopefully clearly as I have a hard time with explaining my brain).
View attachment 161007
the two images above show the path of the sun that any observer sees from the face of the globe, except for very near the poles, where because of the tilt, you may have the sun in the sky for 24 hours, or not in the sky at all for a 24 hours out of a day, during the extremes of summer and winter.
~I hope I explained what I meant above, miscommunication is all too easy.
this is what we observe when we watch the sun. it matches perfectly what we should see if the earth is a globe, rotating on a tilted axis, revolving around the sun in a one-year orbit.
you might note that it is not at all what is predicted to be observed by the flat earth model.
~It actually is predicted on FE and matches BOTH models IF you have the right info on BOTH, my question that I'm trying to get answered should give more ground to one or the other. (Note: I don't subscribe to ANY model, just curious as FE has as much evidence as GE so far in my searching, the Bible is what led me to ask questions)
what the 'flat earth' predicts is that every observer everywhere on earth should see the sun in the sky at all times, every season of the year -- the sun should never set according to the flat earth model. so merely watching the sun rise and set every day completely obliterates all flat earth arguments. it's just wrong, completely wrong -- and all you have to do to know that as an absolute certainty is watch the sun come up and go down.
~I think this is an inaccurate statement, you may have received incorrect information on this.
If anyone uses the "Flat Earth Society" for research, I have found a lot of their material is DIS/MIS information that doesn't add up IMO).
The sun on FE is smaller and closer while the circumference of the FE is large enough to accommodate the sun circling and illuminating "parts" of the Earth while keeping other "parts" in the dark. Think of a flashlight (just to illustrate) turned on with the lit disc down on a table (as to see NO light), as you pull it up away from the table the illumination "grows" the farther away you pull it from the table. The sun is close enough above FE allowing for the illumination to be "centralized"
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Forgive me. I still don't understand your question.
Have you tried the ball and light experiment yet?
Put a piece of tape, or a mark, on the ball where you think you are in the world. Then rotate the ball (on approximately a 23 degree axis) as you move it to each side of the lamp.
If that does not answer your question, perhaps it will help you communicate what it is you want to know.