Did Jesus fail????

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here is the full quote from Destined to Reign.

David’s Definition Of Blessedness

If this lady had continued to believe that God was punishing

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her for some sin, she would have just gritted her teeth, accepted her sickness as punishment and never sought God for healing. But praise God He brought light into her situation, and showed her how much He loved her!
“But Pastor Prince, didn’t God punish King David for his sin and he lost his child?”

Don’t forget that David, like Elijah, lived before the cross of Jesus. You will never find an example of God punishing a believer for his sins in the new covenant. Let’s study the Scriptures for ourselves and not just go by what people are saying.
When David sinned against God by committing adultery with Bathsheba and plotting the death of her husband, Uriah, sin was imputed to David and he was punished. Although the punishment was tempered with God’s mercy, David was punished nonetheless because he was under the covenant of law and not the covenant of grace.

Do you know who David was describing when he said, “Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin”? (Rom.4:8) Since it’s clear that sin was imputed to David, he could not have been describing himself as some scholars claim. No, he was looking prophetically into the covenant of grace. He was describing you and me — a new generation of people who are under the covenant of grace!

What does “shall not impute sin” mean? Does it mean that you will never sin again? Did Jesus die on the cross to free us from committing sinful actions or harboring sinful thoughts? If He did, then allow me to conclude with reverence that He failed.

Yep that looks just like the words of Joseph Prince I quoted in my OP---->>>>

Quote #19:
“Did Jesus die on the cross to free us from committing sinful actions or harboring sinful thoughts?
If He did, then allow me to conclude with reverence that He failed."

So how is my OP slander? And even with allllll the context, his statement is still contrary to the words of Jesus Christ, which I also posted in my OP.....
John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

[Gr8grace]

This is interesting to me because of something I was reading today that puzzled me. The man was saying we have to take care to differentiate between if God has gone silent because He has put us on a fast or if He has gone silent because we have willfully sinned.

I thought about it for a long, long time. I do not believe I have willfully sinned since I've met Him. I have either 1.) Not known I was sinning, literally couldn't SEE it until He showed me OR 2.) Sinning, but wanting very badly not to sin. As in, I do what I don't want (or will) to do, as Paul said.

So when you say we all sin willfully, what exactly do you mean, G8?

What would you call your # 2? knowing it is sin and not wanting to, but still sinning.

So how are you stunned by Grace?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You sin, you sin willfully and you sin habitually.

Another false accuser and defender of sin.

 

[Gr8grace]

Another false accuser and defender of sin.

Another false teacher and defender of EVIL.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

What would you call your # 2? knowing it is sin and not wanting to, but still sinning.

So how are you stunned by Grace?

I would call my #2 something other than willful sinning. If I do it even though I will to not do it, then it is actually against my will.

I brought it up because you told the man he willfully sins. (And because I was reading something earlier today where a man also talked of willful sinning, which was perplexing to me because I don't do it willfully and have never talked with anyone who sins willfully. So I didn't understand what the man was saying in the book.)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Explain to me how your ranting is going to help build the babes in Christ? explain to me how your accusational posts are going to show the heart of God? explain to me how your thread is going to help further the kingdom of God.

Explain to me how believing in the lies of Joseph Prince is going to set you free, when Jesus said believing in the Truth shall make you free? What amazes me is how quick people are to support a heretic who says Jesus failed based solely on his own personal experience and struggles with sinful thoughts and actions. This way of thinking is basically calling Jesus a liar because people like yourself still sin and have evil thoughts and desires. This way of thinking is like saying I am thus, so God's words cannot be true. Those who think this way have no faith in the power of God to truly set you free from sin.

 

[Adstar]

False hyper grace teacher Joseph Prince says this....

But Jesus said this....John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

Did Jesus fail as Joseph Prince says, or perhaps Joseph Prince does not truly know and believe in the power of God to actually set one free from sin and sinful thoughts?

Jesus died on the cross to provide Atonement for the sins of all who would believe Him and trust in that Atonement for the forgiveness of their sins and their eternal salvation..

I do not know much about this Joseph Prince guy.. He may be wrong in some areas.. But it is true that Jesus did not come so that we would achieve sinlessness in this corrupt flesh.. This teaching is a delusion and a lie.. No one is sinless in this world in this carnal life .. But some are forgiven through the Blood of our LORD Jesus Christ. All praise and honour and credit is to Our Hero Jesus and what He went through to save us from what we deserve...

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Surely you do not EVEN believe what you just got through asking.....DO YOU?

If you do,,, Friend, you got bigger problems that wondering if Jesus Failed.

I know for a fact Jesus did not fail. But what is amazing to me is all the people who support and defend the words of this Joseph Prince in the OP over and above the words of Jesus Christ concerning truly being set free from sin. Very telling indeed.

This also confirms to me that the falling away from the faith is in full swing.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

But it is true that Jesus did not come so that we would achieve sinlessness in this corrupt flesh.. This teaching is a delusion and a lie..

So when Jesus said--->>>John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." Was Jesus just exaggerating or just pulling your leg? LOL Where is faith in the words of Jesus Christ?????

 

[PennEd]

Awesome version!!![video=youtube;CDdvReNKKuk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDdvReNKKuk[/video]

 

[Melokisedes]

Haha

Jesus never fails.

He is the "originator of the creation of God", "the verb", he attained "the height of the perfect man". He can't fail, certainly!!

And his job is not done. He waits for us to fulfill our part in "putting his enemies as his foot stool" then he will come back to cast away death. Thus, those that live by the time of this event, that came to be his true servants, "will see him and will be like him".

Even the fight that comes afterward is not a failure. All is part of the plan of Jehova.

AMEN AMEN AMEN

Maranatha

 

[Adstar]

So when Jesus said--->>>John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." Was Jesus just exaggerating or just pulling your leg? LOL Where is faith in the words of Jesus Christ?????

It is you are are adding the words ""of sin"" in your mind to that verse.. You are mentally adding those words here::

"If the Son therefore shall make you free(of sin), ye shall be free indeed." ...

That's what you are doing you are assuming that the freedom spoken of in the verse is freedom from sinning..

John 8:KJV
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

The truth is believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for our salvation makes us free from the condemnation that will come upon all people who have rejected and disbelieved in His Word.. Freedom from fear .. Freedom from worry.. Freedom of peace of mind...

 

[Gr8grace]

I would call my #2 something other than willful sinning. If I do it even though I will to not do it, then it is actually against my will.

I brought it up because you told the man he willfully sins. (And because I was reading something earlier today where a man also talked of willful sinning, which was perplexing to me because I don't do it willfully and have never talked with anyone who sins willfully. So I didn't understand what the man was saying in the book.)

So your getting close................it is not I, but sin in me. And it is WILLFUL in our flesh(In me.) Even if our spirit fights against it.


But I honestly believe, the more we understand Grace and how HUGE and I mean, HUGE our sin problem is.............we will realize that we sin willingly and habitually every day. If it wasn't that bad, Christ wouldn't of had to come to us LOST people.

 

[Grace777x70]

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and upset their faith.

They even say that if one sins - they are not born of God and are of the devil. But when you corner them about their sin - they will not answer because that would mean that they too are not born of God according to their religion. They are simply ignorant of what John means in 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been guaranteed in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.


The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )

 

[Willie-T]

Explain to me how believing in the lies of Joseph Prince is going to set you free, when Jesus said believing in the Truth shall make you free? What amazes me is how quick people are to support a heretic who says Jesus failed based solely on his own personal experience and struggles with sinful thoughts and actions. This way of thinking is basically calling Jesus a liar because people like yourself still sin and have evil thoughts and desires. This way of thinking is like saying I am thus, so God's words cannot be true. Those who think this way have no faith in the power of God to truly set you free from sin.

How are we so fortunate to find these guys who never sin? It's amazing........ or it WOULD be if their own posts bore it out. LOL

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

So your getting close................it is not I, but sin in me. And it is WILLFUL in our flesh(In me.) Even if our spirit fights against it.


But I honestly believe, the more we understand Grace and how HUGE and I mean, HUGE our sin problem is.............we will realize that we sin willingly and habitually every day. If it wasn't that bad, Christ wouldn't of had to come to us LOST people.

Hmm...I see my will as being...what I want and what I purpose to do. But what I purpose to do is not always what I actually do. When I sin, I am not purposing to do it. I am purposing to do the exact opposite. Who WANTS to sin and sets out purposely to do so? I don't know anyone like that, at least not anyone who has met God. But my will (what I purpose to do) and what I very much want to do, is to NOT sin. So I still do not understand - if it is what I sincerely and desperately do not want to do - how it can be said I am willingly/willfully doing it. I don't willfully or willingly do it. I do it against my will and against what I purpose to do. It could be said that my flesh overpowers my will but it can't be said that I am willfully and with intent and purpose, doing it. And Paul agrees. He says something like...so if I do what I don't want to do, it isn't me doing it but is sin inside me doing it. Do you see what I'm saying? Or have I just confused you?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

It is you are are adding the words ""of sin"" in your mind to that verse.. You are mentally adding those words here::

"If the Son therefore shall make you free(of sin), ye shall be free indeed." ...

That's what you are doing you are assuming that the freedom spoken of in the verse is freedom from sinning..

John 8:KJV
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

The truth is believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for our salvation makes us free from the condemnation that will come upon all people who have rejected and disbelieved in His Word.. Freedom from fear .. Freedom from worry.. Freedom of peace of mind...

Well JP followers might twist this to say we are set free from the law, but clearly Jesus is talking about being set free from sin----->>>>>
John 8:31-36

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Clearly Jesus is talking about those who are in bondage to sin being servants of sin, and He being able to set them free from this bondage of sin and sinning, that is those who actually believe and abide in His words.

 

[Willie-T]

Well JP followers might twist this to say we are set free from the law, but clearly Jesus is talking about being set free from sin----->>>>>
John 8:31-36

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Clearly Jesus is talking about those who are in bondage to sin being servants of sin, and He being able to set them free from this bondage of sin and sinning, that is those who actually believe and abide in His words.

But, your whole premise goes right down the toilet because all of us have seen you sin right here on this forum, as you have seen us also do. So, where is the person who is set free from sinning? It sure ain't you or me, or anyone I know.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well JP followers might twist this to say we are set free from the law, but clearly Jesus is talking about being set free from sin----->>>>>
John 8:31-36

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Clearly Jesus is talking about those who are in bondage to sin being servants of sin, and He being able to set them free from this bondage of sin and sinning, that is those who actually believe and abide in His words.

Regardless of the above, we have two books and then some that tell us that we have been set free from the law.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

How are we so fortunate to find these guys who never sin?

This is the carnal mentality of seeing is believing. Jesus says He can in fact set you free from sin, but the sinner says "I still sin every day so Jesus' words must not be true." So the sinner proclaims Jesus must be wrong, or has failed, because he judges the words of God by his own lack of belief and failures. This my friends is not of faith in the words of God, but is of doubt, and is of the Devil.

You can either believe the words of Jesus Christ as true, or believe the doctrine of sinners.